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Seated next to a really overweight person - what to do?

Seated next to a really overweight person - what to do?

Old Jul 5, 2017, 12:06 am
  #361  
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Originally Posted by LarryJ
The interior width is 6.8" greater on the A320 vs. B737 based on the numbers published by the manufacturers. Not quite 10 inches but certainly enough to notice.
10" seems to be an arithmetic error on my part, although I was comparing exterior dimensions; the exterior difference seems to be slightly greater (around 8"/0.2M.)

Regardless, the seat width difference is just enough to be noticable, although seat choices can make a noticeable difference as well -- e.g. try flying an older pmUS 737 and one of the newer American ones back to back.
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Old Jul 5, 2017, 9:39 am
  #362  
 
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Originally Posted by Loren Pechtel
The problem is that airplanes are engineered for a certain number of seats across. Making them any wider (and that's what fat people need) means omitting a seat. Tickets would be 20% more on a narrow body, 11% more on a widebody.
The 777 and 747 were "engineered" for nine-across seating. The 787 was "engineered" for eight-across seating. The airlines stuffed in an extra seat to squeeze out a little extra revenue, and I'm suggesting that the government should force them, through regulation, to go back to the old configuration.

The extra seat on the wide bodies does add about 11 percent more revenue, but not profit. There are substantial costs involved with serving 11 percent more passengers, so that net revenue gain is much, much less.

At the very least, if airlines are going to be allowed to fly with these super-narrow seats then we need some system that will provide statutory damages to those who suffer seat encroachment from obese flyers. The airlines should be required to provide passengers with a specific procedure to follow when dealing with a seat encroacher, and passengers who are harmed should get automatic and substantial damages of say $10,000 per incident. This will cause the airlines to address the issue.
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Old Jul 5, 2017, 10:49 am
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Originally Posted by nkedel
Regardless, the seat width difference is just enough to be noticable
I agree. I particularly notice the increased space between the two armrests. It's not a lot of extra room but it is enough to make a difference.
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Old Jul 5, 2017, 11:00 am
  #364  
 
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Originally Posted by Rebelyell
At the very least, if airlines are going to be allowed to fly with these super-narrow seats then we need some system that will provide statutory damages to those who suffer seat encroachment from obese flyers. The airlines should be required to provide passengers with a specific procedure to follow when dealing with a seat encroacher, and passengers who are harmed should get automatic and substantial damages of say $10,000 per incident. This will cause the airlines to address the issue.
Hear, hear! A standard Economy Class seat width across all airlines would also make it easier for someone who's heavy (but not 400 lbs) to know in advance if they will actually fit in the seat. With economy class seat widths varying as much as they do, right now for the average person it's a guess (because they don't know about Seat Guru, and because equipment changes are a Thing). I don't want to buy a second seat because I thought the economy class seat on flight 1234 was going to be 16.8" inches wide, only to discover that in fact it's 17.5" or 18" wide and I fit it just fine. I also don't want to squish my fellow passengers because I guessed wrong.
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Old Jul 5, 2017, 6:36 pm
  #365  
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Originally Posted by Rebelyell
Most of us on this forum are programmed to assert our rights. We've read various scenarios and have thought over in advance what we will do if faced with the prospect of a seat poacher, a demand for seat swap, or a super-obese adjacent passenger. And so having mentally practiced our lines and considered the ethics of the situation, we don't feel bad about saying, "No, I won't move," or "No, I won't agree to raise the armrest." And we really don't care if the other passenger gets angry about it.

But a substantial percentage of flyers can't stand the thought of publicly "fat shaming" someone, so they will in many cases suffer mightily in silence. My wife is one of these, although I think she may have learned her lesson after being pressed up against a cabin wall for four hours by a gigantic woman on a Delta flight. The COS who knows they need two seats but refuses to buy them relies on people not wanting to hurt their feelings. The airlines who know of the problem but refuse to address it rely on this, too. And it's not right.

The flight attendants spend a great deal of time and effort making sure every seat back and tray table is upright during takeoff and landing, although I really don't think it makes much difference. Surely they are able as they walk up and down the aisles to look and make sure every armrest is in the "down" position, and if not, politely ask if the passengers are traveling together. If not, the airline rule should simply be that the armrest may not be raised between two passengers not traveling together.

I believe the government should mandate minimum seat sizes; doing so would increase fares only slightly. The purpose of government is to protect the citizenry, and if mandating a minimum seat width doesn't protect the public, I don't know what does. My personal opinion is that the airlines are intentionally making the coach product as miserable and stress-filled as possible to force people to pay a huge premium for upgraded seating that has far too much room and/or service than most people want, and I don't think they should be allowed to get away with it.
Except that government isn't going to mandate minimum seat sizes in the foreseeable future if ever.

The FAs shouldn't be blamed if passengers are reluctant to raise the matter. In our politically correct universe it is understandable that an FA would avoid taking the initiative in the absence of a complaint when he/she would most likely be accused of discrimination or get into a confrontation which could delay the flight.

Ultimately it's up to the individual passenger to do something about it. Suffer in silence when the COS spills into your seat and presses you against the wall or demand the cabin crew correct the situation immediately.

It's not my intention to "fat shame" but if the COS does feel ashamed or gets angry that is quite frankly not my problem. Fear of "fat shaming" or hurting feelings is not going to cause me to suffer in silence if a COS attempts to claim a significant portion of the seat space I paid for.
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Old Jul 5, 2017, 9:50 pm
  #366  
 
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Originally Posted by nkedel
...which in turn comes from the fuselage diameter of the 707 (designed mid-50s) itself widened from an early military design. The DC-8 set the current 6-across narrow-body pattern, even though (because it was already in progress) the 707 released first.
Yup. It goes way back. I still like flying on the 737's, even if they are just barely wide enough for what they do.
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Old Jul 5, 2017, 9:57 pm
  #367  
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Originally Posted by artemis
Hear, hear! A standard Economy Class seat width across all airlines would also make it easier for someone who's heavy (but not 400 lbs) to know in advance if they will actually fit in the seat. With economy class seat widths varying as much as they do, right now for the average person it's a guess (because they don't know about Seat Guru, and because equipment changes are a Thing). I don't want to buy a second seat because I thought the economy class seat on flight 1234 was going to be 16.8" inches wide, only to discover that in fact it's 17.5" or 18" wide and I fit it just fine. I also don't want to squish my fellow passengers because I guessed wrong.
Most of us fit the standard seats. Why should we have to pay more to help the minority that do not?
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Old Jul 5, 2017, 10:40 pm
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Originally Posted by artemis
Hear, hear! A standard Economy Class seat width across all airlines would also make it easier for someone who's heavy (but not 400 lbs) to know in advance if they will actually fit in the seat. With economy class seat widths varying as much as they do, right now for the average person it's a guess (because they don't know about Seat Guru, and because equipment changes are a Thing). I don't want to buy a second seat because I thought the economy class seat on flight 1234 was going to be 16.8" inches wide, only to discover that in fact it's 17.5" or 18" wide and I fit it just fine. I also don't want to squish my fellow passengers because I guessed wrong.
Nice idea, but some airframes are a bit wider than others, so this is physically impossible. That being said, the extra seat cramming on the widebodies is a bit ridiculous, even though it adds a lot more seats that they can sell. Maybe people should learn how to use Google and find SeatGuru, since it shows up at the top of nearly any search for [insert airline] [insert plane type].
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Old Jul 6, 2017, 3:41 am
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I try to fish around for good J fares, but if that isn't possible, I'd gladly pay more to sit in 9-abreast 777, or in Y+, instead of a 10-abreast 777.

But that shouldn't change the fact that POS should be forced to pay for another seat. As I and many other FTers have noted earlier -- I paid for a seat, not half of it. POS who refuse to purchase another seat should be denied boarding.

My intention isn't to fat shame anyone, but if I find myself squished, well...I'm afraid I'll have to complain.
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Old Jul 6, 2017, 12:42 pm
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Originally Posted by Loren Pechtel
Most of us fit the standard seats. Why should we have to pay more to help the minority that do not?
Fitting in the seat is only one part of the issue.

Seat pitch also influences the ease of entry and exit, both for routine purposes like stretching and lavatory visits, and for emergency purposes like evacuations and first responder access to an ill or injured passenger in a non-aisle seat.

Aisle width is important for exactly the same reasons. Aisle width is also a factor in boarding and deplaning disabled people - I think we've all seen the special narrow wheelchair that the airlines need to use to board or deplane a disabled person, and even in the case where the disabled person is not obese, this is a difficult process that makes things even more dangerous in an emergency situation.

So while I have been very vocal in my opinion that anyone who doesn't fit safely into a single seat must buy a second seat or not fly, I also believe that there should be minimum seat and aisle sizes for reasons of safety, comfort, and efficiency. There are probably already aisle width minimums, so it's not too much of a stretch to mandate seat width and pitch minimums as well, if for no other reason than making it possible for a paramedic to treat someone who is having an MI in a window seat or one of the middles of a four-seat row.
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Old Jul 6, 2017, 1:15 pm
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Originally Posted by Loren Pechtel
Most of us fit the standard seats. Why should we have to pay more to help the minority that do not?
No such thing - the average seat of the 90s was a lot more luxurious than the average one of 2010, and those beat the 9 abreast 787s and 10 across 777sby a whole lot.

Why pay money for those safety gadgets? They weigh tons and are only used by a tiny, tiny minority....
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Old Jul 6, 2017, 9:13 pm
  #372  
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Originally Posted by leungy18
But that shouldn't change the fact that POS should be forced to pay for another seat. As I and many other FTers have noted earlier -- I paid for a seat, not half of it. POS who refuse to purchase another seat should be denied boarding.
There are two issues; I think plenty of folks agree that large passenger should not be allowed to spill over into another occupied seat, and should be re-seated.

How the airline handles re-seating them -- where, when and whether they charge for it -- really isn't anyone's business but the larger passenger's and the airline's, and I'm not sure the Southwest model is the best one (especially given that other airlines in theory follow it, but enforce it so rarely as to have no predictability for larger passengers.)
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Old Jul 7, 2017, 1:36 am
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Just to throw another bit of information into the pot. I recently flew to Europe on a British Airways 787 with my son and a couple of his friends. As the day to travel drew nearer, I started to get nervous, as the 787 is just about the worst plane in the air in terms of seat width. So I called British Airways and asked about buying two extra seats, which they supposedly sell at the same rate as the original purchase, so that we could sit in two rows of three with empty center seats. The guy on the other end of the phone acted like he had absolutely no idea what I was talking about and after a while told me I would need to talk to another department. I just said "never mind."

I ended up booking the very back row on the port side, which only had two seats instead of three, plus two aisle seats across and in front (for the record, these "twin" seats recline as much as any others). This worked out well enough. The back row had about 14 inches of unused space between the seat and the window, which was a nice place to put stuff. But obviously the airline could have installed some 23-inch wide seats in these rows and sold them at a big premium. It would solve the problem with no loss of passengers. Sure, extra expense in configuring a different seat, but since this configuration exists on every single 787 it shouldn't be that big of an expense and should more than pay for itself through premium seat charges.

At any rate, my point is that the airlines for the most part are just doing very little to deal with this problem. Most don't make it easy on the front end to buy extra seats. When they could easily offer a wider seat, they instead offer a super-narrow seat with empty, unutilized space on the side. I weigh 195 pounds, am 5-10, and have a 34" waist, so I am somewhat "fat" but not super-fat. I find a 17-inch seat width absolutely intolerable on a long-haul flight. There is no way a severely overweight person can fit in and remain within their allotted space for six to 10 hours with only 17 inches of seat width.
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Old Jul 7, 2017, 5:43 am
  #374  
 
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Booking aisle and window is a good strategy. Hopefully the middle seat with stay empty but if not, middle seat person should usually be glad to trade with your companion.
I had a similar experience DFW to HKG. I was in the aisle seat but it was still miserable, especially when the person in the middle decided to play a video game and poke me with his elbow. That is when I got a bit vocal.
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Old Jul 7, 2017, 6:15 am
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Originally Posted by Rebelyell
I weigh 195 pounds, am 5-10, and have a 34" waist, so I am somewhat "fat" but not super-fat. I find a 17-inch seat width absolutely intolerable on a long-haul flight.
Shape also comes into it. I'm similar stats to you but find a 17" seat no problem, often with a book or water bottle at the side of me.

Originally Posted by MitchR
Booking aisle and window is a good strategy.
But incredibly selfish as it has the knock on effect of other passengers maybe ending up in a middle seat unnecessarily.
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