Middle manager upgraded ahead of senior VP, told to give seat to superior.
#31
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 2,378
Well, this can be looked at in a few ways - if say, a company buys a block of hotel rooms and the hotel provides a better room in the batch, suite or whatever, which happens often, the person responsible for distributing the rooms would give the best room to the top man/woman, although the rooms might have technically been allocated by the hotel to a different member of staff. Nothing really wrong with that. It is a batch purchase and the company pays for everything so it has the discretion to distribute. If staff at eg a school were to go to a conference, I can imagine that the Principal or Head gets distributed the best seat/room.
This is very different from, eg, where the staff all fork out themselves in which case it will be totally wrong for staff to be told, or even expected, to give his better room/seat to superior.
In any case, it is good manners to offer a better room or whatever to someone up the chain, to show respect. Likewise and especially so, as it is a lady boss, it is nice to give her a better room/seat.
On the other hand, if I were the boss, I will make it clear that it is not expected or necessary but might accept, depending on circumstances, but always graciously.
I won't see it as bullying or short-changing the junior member, but rather, it is a "your time will come" situation. You work your way up.
This is very different from, eg, where the staff all fork out themselves in which case it will be totally wrong for staff to be told, or even expected, to give his better room/seat to superior.
In any case, it is good manners to offer a better room or whatever to someone up the chain, to show respect. Likewise and especially so, as it is a lady boss, it is nice to give her a better room/seat.
On the other hand, if I were the boss, I will make it clear that it is not expected or necessary but might accept, depending on circumstances, but always graciously.
I won't see it as bullying or short-changing the junior member, but rather, it is a "your time will come" situation. You work your way up.
#32
Suspended
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Ontario, Canada
Programs: Aeroplan, IHG, Enterprise, Avios, Nexus
Posts: 8,355
Damn right. In that corporation the senior person increases their odds immensely of a upgrade if he/she is flying with a group of subordinates. Why bother putting your name on the list if you know it will be scooped by a higher-up?
#33
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 2,172
I said "nice".
Eg, this this man is on a flight with his parents and his get upgraded but not his parents. I would think it nice of him to offer better to his mother. YMMV of course. Some might say it is sucking up ... ?
Eg, this this man is on a flight with his parents and his get upgraded but not his parents. I would think it nice of him to offer better to his mother. YMMV of course. Some might say it is sucking up ... ?
#36
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 2,378
I guess I can't be too harsh on you as that's the view society generally dictates people should have, I just don't think sexism is a particularly great thing to promote - whether that be against women or men.
#37
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 2,172
You say "society generally dictates" certain views that people should have but that you "just don't think sexism is a particularly great thing to promote - whether that be against women or men". So make your view against sexism known when you see all the Olympic Games having separate entries for men and women, almost all sports events likewise categorised, there being separate bathroom and changing facilities for the sexes, separate jails for men and women etc. It is a free world and we can all share our views.
#38
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 2,378
Scroll up. I never said this. You brought in "deserve" etc.
Be as harsh or agreeable as you like. Take whatever view that suits you when someone gives his seat to his (or your) grandmother, mother, wife, sister or daughter Call him/her sexist, instead of thanking him/her if you think it right.
You say "society generally dictates" certain views that people should have but that you "just don't think sexism is a particularly great thing to promote - whether that be against women or men". So make your view against sexism known when you see all the Olympic Games having separate entries for men and women, almost all sports events likewise categorised, there being separate bathroom and changing facilities for the sexes, separate jails for men and women etc. It is a free world and we can all share our views.
Be as harsh or agreeable as you like. Take whatever view that suits you when someone gives his seat to his (or your) grandmother, mother, wife, sister or daughter Call him/her sexist, instead of thanking him/her if you think it right.
You say "society generally dictates" certain views that people should have but that you "just don't think sexism is a particularly great thing to promote - whether that be against women or men". So make your view against sexism known when you see all the Olympic Games having separate entries for men and women, almost all sports events likewise categorised, there being separate bathroom and changing facilities for the sexes, separate jails for men and women etc. It is a free world and we can all share our views.
None of those are equivalent. Professional male athletes will generally outperform professional female athletes for biological reasons. Where that isn't the case then I don't really support gender separation - I personally play on a mixed-gender hockey team. There are separate changing facilities because men and women are biologically different and many (probably most) people are uncomfortable being undressed around strangers of the opposite sex. You'll also notice that while all of these examples segregate the sexes, they don't give preferential treatment to women over men - which your example does. Unless there's a specific reason why women require comfortable seats more than men?
I missed the bit where I demanded you were silenced?
#40
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Formerly at PIT, now planted near MSP.
Programs: No flights since April 2019 (Medical Issues). Lost all my status.
Posts: 1,483
What's the Problem?
Over the course of your career, your boss is likely to ask you to do any or all of the following:
* Work late
* Work weekends
* Travel at the last minute
* Change vacation plans
* Perform duties that are not part of your job description
* Perform menial tasks
Why is it any different when your boss asks you to give up an upgrade so that his/her boss can fly in First Class?
* Work late
* Work weekends
* Travel at the last minute
* Change vacation plans
* Perform duties that are not part of your job description
* Perform menial tasks
Why is it any different when your boss asks you to give up an upgrade so that his/her boss can fly in First Class?
#41
Suspended
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Canada, USA, Europe
Programs: UA 1K
Posts: 31,452
At some point you need to grow the set of balls to say 'no'.
#42
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: PHX
Programs: AA Peon Gold
Posts: 2,915
Over the course of your career, your boss is likely to ask you to do any or all of the following:
* Work late
* Work weekends
* Travel at the last minute
* Change vacation plans
* Perform duties that are not part of your job description
* Perform menial tasks
Why is it any different when your boss asks you to give up an upgrade so that his/her boss can fly in First Class?
* Work late
* Work weekends
* Travel at the last minute
* Change vacation plans
* Perform duties that are not part of your job description
* Perform menial tasks
Why is it any different when your boss asks you to give up an upgrade so that his/her boss can fly in First Class?
That's the way I see it, anyway.
#43
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,342
Nowhere did OP say they were more deserving. OP said it was "nice".
I don't agree. Why does one have to be "deserving" of something for me to give it to them? I wouldn't hesitate to give my upgraded seat to my lady friend. In no way am I implying she is less physically capable than I am (actually, likely the opposite). Why do I do that? I don't know, because it's nice? I know she personally wouldn't hold it against me if I didn't, but I still will. I would do the same if I was traveling with my mother. It's in part to be nice, in part to show respect. Actually, I do think my mother deserves, from me, least of all, an upgrade while traveling for raising me and looking after me for the majority of my life.
Sometimes I give a dollar or two to beggars or performers I see on the streets or in the subway. Do I think they deserve it? No, they can go get a job if they think they deserve the money. But I think they need it more than I do, and it's no big deal to me, so I do it. It also depends on my mood sometimes. If the upgrade matters that much to you, then don't give it away. If you're angry at your boss and it won't cost you your job, or if you don't care if it does, then keep the upgrade. If the upgrade doesn't matter so much and there are other factors in play, then give it up.
I don't understand how you guys went from "it is nice" to "whoever wrote that is sexist"
Sometimes I give a dollar or two to beggars or performers I see on the streets or in the subway. Do I think they deserve it? No, they can go get a job if they think they deserve the money. But I think they need it more than I do, and it's no big deal to me, so I do it. It also depends on my mood sometimes. If the upgrade matters that much to you, then don't give it away. If you're angry at your boss and it won't cost you your job, or if you don't care if it does, then keep the upgrade. If the upgrade doesn't matter so much and there are other factors in play, then give it up.
I don't understand how you guys went from "it is nice" to "whoever wrote that is sexist"
#44
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: ORD
Programs: UA 1K
Posts: 16,900
+1
If someone who worked for me got upgraded and I didn't it would never even occur to me to expect them to give it up for me. And if they did I would insist they keep their seat.
The OP's middle manager sounds like a real cow, quietly reminding the OP that, in the event an upgrade happens it goes to the boss?! Give me a break!
If someone who worked for me got upgraded and I didn't it would never even occur to me to expect them to give it up for me. And if they did I would insist they keep their seat.
The OP's middle manager sounds like a real cow, quietly reminding the OP that, in the event an upgrade happens it goes to the boss?! Give me a break!
I guess I'd:
Give up my seat.
Polish my resume.
#45
Suspended
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Ontario, Canada
Programs: Aeroplan, IHG, Enterprise, Avios, Nexus
Posts: 8,355
Over the course of your career, your boss is likely to ask you to do any or all of the following:
* Work late
* Work weekends
* Travel at the last minute
* Change vacation plans
* Perform duties that are not part of your job description
* Perform menial tasks
Why is it any different when your boss asks you to give up an upgrade so that his/her boss can fly in First Class?
* Work late
* Work weekends
* Travel at the last minute
* Change vacation plans
* Perform duties that are not part of your job description
* Perform menial tasks
Why is it any different when your boss asks you to give up an upgrade so that his/her boss can fly in First Class?