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U.S. Congressional Action to Change How Airfares are Advertised.

U.S. Congressional Action to Change How Airfares are Advertised.

Old Apr 16, 2014, 12:32 pm
  #31  
 
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Originally Posted by gooselee
...at least with the gov't taxes....
The bolding is mine.... What other kind of tax is there? Highly-paid political consultants tweak language to push an agenda. Can we just call them "taxes"?
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Old Apr 16, 2014, 12:41 pm
  #32  
 
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So does this bill also allow them to stop breaking down these prices so comprehensively?

e.g. All the various airport taxes will be listed as one price, all the government (DHS/etc) taxes as one price, etc.

I ask that, because before they did break down these prices in an easy to read way, it was "obvious" that airport charges were different when (at one time) you could fly from DTW->YYZ->LHR cheaper than from YYZ->LHR on AC, catching the same flight YYZ-LHR.
YYZ's O/D passenger charges were so high, versus transit charges, it just didn't make sense.
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Old Apr 16, 2014, 12:56 pm
  #33  
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Originally Posted by ajGoes
The bolding is mine.... What other kind of tax is there? Highly-paid political consultants tweak language to push an agenda. Can we just call them "taxes"?
Ahh, yes. That was me typing fast and trying to replicate the "government taxes and fees" language that seems to be prevalent, and in which I assume the "government" specifier serves to differentiate the "fees" portion - e.g., the TSA fee vs. carrier-imposed fees.

In any case, call them whatever you want, the difference to me is that the costs that get passed back to the government are the same and relatively predictable across all carriers, so excluding them doesn't do much harm to the comparative shopping process for consumers. But if carrier-imposed fees can also be excluded from advertised prices, then that makes a big difference since they can vary greatly from one carrier to another, and at the end of the day are contributing to each carrier's bottom line.
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Old Apr 16, 2014, 1:00 pm
  #34  
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Originally Posted by Often1
....

So, bottom line is that under US law, it is false and deceptive to fail to provide the total price, e.g. the amount you must pay in order to have a ticket issued.

The bottom feeders such as WN & NK don't want to do this. The real carriers don't seem to mind. Wonder why?
Oh, really?

Supporters:

Air Line Pilots Association International
Airlines for America
Alaska Airlines
Allied Pilots Association
American Airlines
Americans for Tax Reform
Association of Flight Attendants - CWA
Coalition of Airline Pilots Association
Cost of Government Center
Delta Airlines
International Association of Machinists & Aerospace Workers
International Brotherhood of Teamsters
JetBlue
Southwest Airlines
Southwest Airlines Pilots Association
Spirit Airlines
United Airlines
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Old Apr 16, 2014, 1:14 pm
  #35  
 
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Originally Posted by ajGoes
Nothing has changed. A bill has been proposed to Congress that would allow airlines to return to their old deceptive ways of advertising the fare rather than the cost. In today's Congress, the distance between a bill and a law is vast and rarely surmounted.
Take a stab at it....the lobbysts with mostest $$$ win, remember corporations are people !

Originally Posted by Jerseyguy
When i go buy a soda at 7-11, they tell me what they advertise the portion that they will keeping. They charge me that cost but also collect the sales tax of 7% to be sent to the state of New Jersey. It is not deceptive of them to tell me that a 20 oz bottle of soda is 1.79 and then want to collect from me 1.92. They are only charging me $1.79 . The .13 is the amount the state of NJ is charging me. Anything 7-11 is keeping should be in the advertised price any tax they are collecting need not be.
Wait , get more frosted ! Looking at big screen TVs, saw a Sony with a $ 6000 mfg. discount. Sign clearly said you still pay sales tax ( 8 %) on that $ 600 too !

Originally Posted by 1kprem
So what's the view/reaction out there of this bill currently in Congress that would once again allow airlines to advertise just the base fare and quote the taxes and fees later?



See more at
http://beta.congress.gov/bill/113th-...ouse-bill/4156
" Lobbysts with the mostest...."

Originally Posted by dvs7310
It's truly beyond me how this could even remotely be construed as being "Transparent" as the act's title would lead one to believe. It does say "Government taxes and fees" though and makes no mention in the summary of "Carrier imposed fees (surcharges)" so perhaps the fuel scam would at least be required to be included in the "Base fare" advertised price. Better yet, anyone have a congressman's ear? Would love to see a Brazil style ammendment, no fuel surcharges allowed. Price your fares appropriately to start with, there's absolutely no need in a 2 part system (base + YQ)
These Congress members need to look at what the StatesAGs do to auto Dealers advertising, controlled to the nth degree.
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Old Apr 16, 2014, 1:15 pm
  #36  
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Originally Posted by StayingHomeIsBetter
Oh, really?

Supporters:

Air Line Pilots Association International
Airlines for America
Alaska Airlines
Allied Pilots Association
American Airlines
Americans for Tax Reform
Association of Flight Attendants - CWA
Coalition of Airline Pilots Association
Cost of Government Center
Delta Airlines
International Association of Machinists & Aerospace Workers
International Brotherhood of Teamsters
JetBlue
Southwest Airlines
Southwest Airlines Pilots Association
Spirit Airlines
United Airlines
Missed a couple, there. All the legacies are on board.
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Old Apr 16, 2014, 1:18 pm
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Originally Posted by gooselee
Ahh, yes. That was me typing fast and trying to replicate the "government taxes and fees" language that seems to be prevalent, and in which I assume the "government" specifier serves to differentiate the "fees" portion - e.g., the TSA fee vs. carrier-imposed fees.
Thanks for the acknowledgment.

Originally Posted by gooselee
In any case, call them whatever you want, the difference to me is that the costs that get passed back to the government are the same and relatively predictable across all carriers, so excluding them doesn't do much harm to the comparative shopping process for consumers. But if carrier-imposed fees can also be excluded from advertised prices, then that makes a big difference since they can vary greatly from one carrier to another, and at the end of the day are contributing to each carrier's bottom line.
I think there are cases where excluding taxes makes comparative shopping more difficult, though I suppose they're a small share of all fares. Local airport taxes could be different between alternate airports located in different jurisdictions, for example.

Then there's the consumer who wants to answer the question "where can I go on May 30th for $1000 or less?" It's impossible if taxes are excluded.
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Old Apr 16, 2014, 1:25 pm
  #38  
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Originally Posted by gooselee
Missed a couple, there. All the legacies are on board.
I just cut and pasted what was on the "we'll carry the water for the airlines" House committee publicity/advertising web site.

BTW... the e-mail link for the House Transportation (and Airline Shilling) Committee website is at

http://transport.house.gov/contact/contact-us.htm
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Old Apr 16, 2014, 1:45 pm
  #39  
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Force everyone to include all taxes and fees internal to the price. End.
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Old Apr 16, 2014, 1:46 pm
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As I agree the Fees should be more visible when purchasing a ticket. I think the real issue volume of taxes imposed on Air Travel. Once you add all the User fees and taxes the Feds profit more than the Airline!
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Old Apr 16, 2014, 1:52 pm
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Originally Posted by usmc6511
As I agree the Fees should be more visible when purchasing a ticket. I think the real issue volume of taxes imposed on Air Travel. Once you add all the User fees and taxes the Feds profit more than the Airline!
That's fine to note, as is done on the receipt. The customer may believe aviation infrastructure should be financed by bake sales, or may be otherwise interested to know how much of the price goes to taxes. But people who are shopping for plane tickets want to answer one question: how much will it cost to get there?
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Old Apr 16, 2014, 2:09 pm
  #42  
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Originally Posted by ajGoes
That's fine to note, as is done on the receipt. The customer may believe aviation infrastructure should be financed by bake sales, or may be otherwise interested to know how much of the price goes to taxes. But people who are shopping for plane tickets want to answer one question: how much will it cost to get there?
^^^

And the airlines want to get your attention by being able to advertise a "teaser" partial price.
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Old Apr 16, 2014, 2:26 pm
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Originally Posted by Jerseyguy
It is not deceptive of them to tell me that a 20 oz bottle of soda is 1.79 and then want to collect from me 1.92. They are only charging me $1.79 . The .13 is the amount the state of NJ is charging me. Anything 7-11 is keeping should be in the advertised price any tax they are collecting need not be.
That is deceptive and should be illegal in the US just like it is almost everywhere else on the planet.
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Old Apr 16, 2014, 2:31 pm
  #44  
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Originally Posted by gooselee
Missed a couple, there. All the legacies are on board.
And who is bankrolling the effort? DL, AA, UA or Spirit and the cockroaches?

In all industries, you can expect the regulated to oppose any form of regulation. But, that doesn't mean they are fighting for it.

This whole thread is about the fact that someone proposed a piece of legislation, not that there is even the remotest chance that it will ever be enacted.
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Old Apr 16, 2014, 3:25 pm
  #45  
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Originally Posted by saaws
The bill, believe it or not, has a good chance to at least pass the House. The bill is sponsored by the chair of transportation committee. It currently has 26 cosponsors, about equally split between Dems and GOPs.



This is a 'advertisement' from the transportation committee. What a bunch of bull. The actual COST to the consumer IS $300. It is just that the AIRLINE receives revenue of $237.

govtrack.us predicts it has a chance of 70% to be enacted. All three Network carriers and Southwest/Frontier/Spirit support this. Disgusting.

https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/113/hr4156
The sad thing is most people won't notice, but, the taxes and fees on that ticket amount to $21.60 ($10.80 x 2 for Passenger Facilities Charge + Sept. 11 Security Fee) and 7.5% excise tax, so total amount airlines get is ~$259, NOT $237. Additionally, listed under the "Hidden" fees which aren't hidden, they are clearly stated on the purchase page, is International Departure/Arrival Tax, CBP Fee, US APHIS Fee, US APHIS Aircraft Fee (which is assessed by aircraft and not by passenger), and Immigration and Customs Enforcement Fee, all of which would not be payable for a domestic passenger flying LAX-DFW-DCA.

EDIT: Just thought of something. Since they're tacking international only fees on a domestic ticket, someone should make an ad that says "Airlines for America uses non-transparent advertisement to push Transparent Airfares Act."

Last edited by 1353513636; Apr 16, 2014 at 3:30 pm
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