U.S. Congressional Action to Change How Airfares are Advertised.
#151
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Chicago, IL USA
Posts: 17
Disappointing, but not surprising. I wrote to my rep, who is a co-sponsor, and he replied with this nonsense:
I responded (though I don't know if he actually got the email reply):
Look at all those taxes/fees, which are variable dependent on a number of factors. The average flying consumer cannot be reasonably expected to look at a base fare and determine the amount in taxes and fees they'd be charged. Also, unlike a sales tax, most of these fees and charges are directly related to the service being provided and are therefore a cost of receiving that service just as much as the fare is.
Thank you for contacting me to share your views on H.R. 4156, the Transparent Airfares Act. Your opinion is important to me, and I appreciate having the opportunity to respond to you on this issue.
As you may know, the Transparent Airfares Act, introduced by Rep. Bill Shuster (R-PA), would allow advertisements for passenger air travel to state the base airfare and separately disclose any government imposed taxes and fees to the total cost of travel. While I understand your views, I support the bill because I believe it will make the costs associated with travel more transparent, as it will allow customers full disclosure of the breakdown of the cost of an airfare ticket.
H.R. 4156 was marked up by the Committee on Transportation and Infrastructure on April 9, 2014, and was ordered to the full House of Representatives. While we disagree on this issue, please know that I will continue to monitor airfare transparency with your concerns in mind.
As you may know, the Transparent Airfares Act, introduced by Rep. Bill Shuster (R-PA), would allow advertisements for passenger air travel to state the base airfare and separately disclose any government imposed taxes and fees to the total cost of travel. While I understand your views, I support the bill because I believe it will make the costs associated with travel more transparent, as it will allow customers full disclosure of the breakdown of the cost of an airfare ticket.
H.R. 4156 was marked up by the Committee on Transportation and Infrastructure on April 9, 2014, and was ordered to the full House of Representatives. While we disagree on this issue, please know that I will continue to monitor airfare transparency with your concerns in mind.
Thank you for the response. Can you explain how the proposed change would make the costs associated with travel more transparent? There is no existing law preventing airlines from presenting the full breakdown of taxes and fees. My receipt for an upcoming flight to Europe has all this information on it:
Fare Breakdown
Airfare: 980.00 USD
U.S. Customs User Fee: 5.50
U.S. Immigration User Fee: 7.00
U.S. APHIS User Fee: 5.00
U.S. Federal Transportation Tax: 35.00
September 11th Security Fee: 2.50
France Airport Tax: 28.40
France Air Passenger Solidarity Tax: 6.20
France Passenger Service Charge: 39.20
International Surcharge: 516.00
U.S. Passenger Facility Charge: 4.50
Per Person Total: 1,629.30 USD
eTicket Total: 1,629.30 USD
The airfare you paid on this itinerary totals: 980.00 USD
The taxes, fees, and surcharges paid total: 649.30 USD
This seems transparent to me. If anything, the "International Surcharge" is opaque. I believe it's a fee assessed by the AIRLINE, but how can I tell? Maybe you can work on that?
I also performed a search (on United.com) and as soon as I choose all my flights, the web site displays a total of "Additional taxes/fees" including a link that provides the same type of breakdown as I provided above. The same information is also made available again before I pay, on the Payment Information page.
So if there is some transparency that HR 4156 would add that I am missing, please explain.
Fare Breakdown
Airfare: 980.00 USD
U.S. Customs User Fee: 5.50
U.S. Immigration User Fee: 7.00
U.S. APHIS User Fee: 5.00
U.S. Federal Transportation Tax: 35.00
September 11th Security Fee: 2.50
France Airport Tax: 28.40
France Air Passenger Solidarity Tax: 6.20
France Passenger Service Charge: 39.20
International Surcharge: 516.00
U.S. Passenger Facility Charge: 4.50
Per Person Total: 1,629.30 USD
eTicket Total: 1,629.30 USD
The airfare you paid on this itinerary totals: 980.00 USD
The taxes, fees, and surcharges paid total: 649.30 USD
This seems transparent to me. If anything, the "International Surcharge" is opaque. I believe it's a fee assessed by the AIRLINE, but how can I tell? Maybe you can work on that?
I also performed a search (on United.com) and as soon as I choose all my flights, the web site displays a total of "Additional taxes/fees" including a link that provides the same type of breakdown as I provided above. The same information is also made available again before I pay, on the Payment Information page.
So if there is some transparency that HR 4156 would add that I am missing, please explain.
#152
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: HaMerkaz/Exit 145
Programs: UA, LY, BA, AA
Posts: 13,167
Disappointing, but not surprising. I wrote to my rep, who is a co-sponsor, and he replied with this nonsense:
I responded (though I don't know if he actually got the email reply):
Look at all those taxes/fees, which are variable dependent on a number of factors. The average flying consumer cannot be reasonably expected to look at a base fare and determine the amount in taxes and fees they'd be charged. Also, unlike a sales tax, most of these fees and charges are directly related to the service being provided and are therefore a cost of receiving that service just as much as the fare is.
I responded (though I don't know if he actually got the email reply):
Look at all those taxes/fees, which are variable dependent on a number of factors. The average flying consumer cannot be reasonably expected to look at a base fare and determine the amount in taxes and fees they'd be charged. Also, unlike a sales tax, most of these fees and charges are directly related to the service being provided and are therefore a cost of receiving that service just as much as the fare is.
#153
Join Date: Sep 2008
Programs: American AAdvantage
Posts: 1,045
Look at all those taxes/fees, which are variable dependent on a number of factors. The average flying consumer cannot be reasonably expected to look at a base fare and determine the amount in taxes and fees they'd be charged. Also, unlike a sales tax, most of these fees and charges are directly related to the service being provided and are therefore a cost of receiving that service just as much as the fare is.
If the bill passes, would this fare be advertised as $1496 (fare + surcharge) or $980 (fare only)?
#154
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: DAY/CMH
Programs: UA MileagePlus
Posts: 2,474
The folks who are anti-tax wants the government fees and taxes unbundled from the advertised fare. I find it amusing that the sum of the various government fees and taxes ($133.30) is smaller than the International Surcharge ($516).
If the bill passes, would this fare be advertised as $1496 (fare + surcharge) or $980 (fare only)?
If the bill passes, would this fare be advertised as $1496 (fare + surcharge) or $980 (fare only)?
An oddity that must have escaped the airline lobbyists' notice is that airlines would apparently have to include airport fees in their base airfare when the airports belong to non-government entities.
#155
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: ORD/MDW
Programs: BA/AA/AS/B6/WN/ UA/HH/MR and more like 'em but most felicitously & importantly MUCCI
Posts: 19,719
With any luck this thing will die in the Senate which doesn't do much anyway.
#156
Suspended
Join Date: Sep 2012
Programs: DL FO/KM, AA PLT
Posts: 2,594
I'm usually one for minimal government regulation, but displaying only the base fare and then clicking to the next page and seeing a new and completely different price with all the taxes factored in is anything but "transparency".
#157
Suspended
Join Date: Sep 2012
Programs: DL FO/KM, AA PLT
Posts: 2,594
Honestly, I think this is fair, as no one else in America (is there anyone else?) is required to include taxes in their advertised prices. Sure, it's "easier" for the consumer if you see the final price, but that's just not how it's done in the USA, and airlines shouldn't be subjected to special "discriminatory" treatment. And there is certainly something to be said for breaking out all the taxes consumers pay -- especially in the travel industry, which seems uniquely subjected to outrageous gov't taxation (i.e., look at your rental car bill).
What is truly wrong -- and should be regulated by gov't -- is when businesses advertise phony prices that are subject to mandatory additional fees. The hotel resort fee is certainly misleading, although the worst offender is probably the $39 concert ticket that actually costs 8 bucks more than that. Advertised prices should be the lowest you can actually buy the thing, except for taxes.
What is truly wrong -- and should be regulated by gov't -- is when businesses advertise phony prices that are subject to mandatory additional fees. The hotel resort fee is certainly misleading, although the worst offender is probably the $39 concert ticket that actually costs 8 bucks more than that. Advertised prices should be the lowest you can actually buy the thing, except for taxes.
I do agree about hotels on the mandatory resort fees, but at least with tax rates on hotels, again the tax rate is consistent as long as I'm looking at hotels in the same location (the Hampton Inn will have the same tax rate as the Marriott next door).
#158
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Chicago, IL USA
Posts: 17
The international surcharge (and its close cousin the fuel surcharge) are completely non-transparent and are the most misleading thing in airline pricing these days. What does that mean? Who imposes it? They list it along with all the government and facility-imposed taxes and fees, so the uneducated consumer may just assume it's something imposed on the carrier, not by the carrier.
Ironically if they get their way, it might be harder for them to try to pretend these surcharges aren't theirs. That's the only somewhat silver lining I see in this turd of a bill.
14 CFR 399.84a states:
You could make a case for the restrictions going too far or being too vague ("may not be displayed prominently" for example), but you can't say that airlines are somehow prohibited from stating the amount of taxes/fees in the cost.
Ironically if they get their way, it might be harder for them to try to pretend these surcharges aren't theirs. That's the only somewhat silver lining I see in this turd of a bill.
14 CFR 399.84a states:
The Department considers any advertising or solicitation by a direct air carrier, indirect air carrier, an agent of either, or a ticket agent, for passenger air transportation, a tour (i.e., a combination of air transportation and ground or cruise accommodations) or tour component (e.g., a hotel stay) that must be purchased with air transportation that states a price for such air transportation, tour, or tour component to be an unfair and deceptive practice in violation of 49 U.S.C. 41712, unless the price stated is the entire price to be paid by the customer to the carrier, or agent, for such air transportation, tour, or tour component. Although charges included within the single total price listed (e.g., government taxes) may be stated separately or through links or “pop ups” on websites that display the total price, such charges may not be false or misleading, may not be displayed prominently, may not be presented in the same or larger size as the total price, and must provide cost information on a per passenger basis that accurately reflects the cost of the item covered by the charge.
#159
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: HaMerkaz/Exit 145
Programs: UA, LY, BA, AA
Posts: 13,167
The folks who are anti-tax wants the government fees and taxes unbundled from the advertised fare. I find it amusing that the sum of the various government fees and taxes ($133.30) is smaller than the International Surcharge ($516).
If the bill passes, would this fare be advertised as $1496 (fare + surcharge) or $980 (fare only)?
If the bill passes, would this fare be advertised as $1496 (fare + surcharge) or $980 (fare only)?
The amendment says 'The term "base airfare" means the cost of passenger air transportation, excluding government-imposed taxes and fees.' Since the international surcharge is not government-imposed, the airline would have to include it in the advertised price.
An oddity that must have escaped the airline lobbyists' notice is that airlines would apparently have to include airport fees in their base airfare when the airports belong to non-government entities.
An oddity that must have escaped the airline lobbyists' notice is that airlines would apparently have to include airport fees in their base airfare when the airports belong to non-government entities.
The problem is that the "taxes" and "surcharges" vary from airline to airline to where it becomes more difficult to determine what the true price is. When I go to a store to Best Buy to get a new TV, I know the tax rate on the Samsung TV will be the same tax rate on the Sharp TV.
I do agree about hotels on the mandatory resort fees, but at least with tax rates on hotels, again the tax rate is consistent as long as I'm looking at hotels in the same location (the Hampton Inn will have the same tax rate as the Marriott next door).
I do agree about hotels on the mandatory resort fees, but at least with tax rates on hotels, again the tax rate is consistent as long as I'm looking at hotels in the same location (the Hampton Inn will have the same tax rate as the Marriott next door).
Hotels should have to quote the whole price and then we can tackle the auto rental industry!
#160
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: East Anglia UK
Programs: BA-S UA LH-Sen KLM/AF-Plat.
Posts: 1,627
Maybe this is understood by better brains than me but how are international US airlines going to get round this fare advertising in Europe where I believe there are laws that specifically state they must show the end price as "The Price." Will they simply alter the ads for some areas of the world? Although I want to know how much the gov and airlines scam off us I also don't want to think I've got a bargain only to find I need a mortgage to fund the add-ons.
#161
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: DAY/CMH
Programs: UA MileagePlus
Posts: 2,474
Maybe this is understood by better brains than me but how are international US airlines going to get round this fare advertising in Europe where I believe there are laws that specifically state they must show the end price as "The Price." Will they simply alter the ads for some areas of the world? Although I want to know how much the gov and airlines scam off us I also don't want to think I've got a bargain only to find I need a mortgage to fund the add-ons.
#162
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: ORD/MDW
Programs: BA/AA/AS/B6/WN/ UA/HH/MR and more like 'em but most felicitously & importantly MUCCI
Posts: 19,719
Opaque and deceptive pricing in the car rental industry is already a major scandal ("Only $19 a day! Total 3-day charge: $275") that ought to be addressed by regulators. That mess doesn't justify copycat policy in airline tickets.
#163
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Chicago, IL USA
Posts: 17
Agreed. Just because other airlines do this poorly doesn't mean we should let airlines start doing it again.
#164
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: London
Posts: 17,007
Maybe this is understood by better brains than me but how are international US airlines going to get round this fare advertising in Europe where I believe there are laws that specifically state they must show the end price as "The Price." Will they simply alter the ads for some areas of the world?
If for some reason one is desperate to issue the ticket at another office (perhaps for reasons of availability and pricing differences in other cities or to avoid currency exchange fees), this must be done by telephone or in person. Now we could construct some situation where a law was broken here but I don't think anyone would be interested in pursuing it.
#165
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: HaMerkaz/Exit 145
Programs: UA, LY, BA, AA
Posts: 13,167
If European law requires airlines show the whole price, then must US airlines comply with that when posting airfares in Europe? Must European airlines comply with the European law even when advertising in America?
Agreed. I think the rental industry is the worst offender. Keep airlines as is and tackle rental car companies instead
Agreed. I think the rental industry is the worst offender. Keep airlines as is and tackle rental car companies instead