Is International First Class Profitable?
 

I've come to notice that only a handful of airlines offer an international first class product. Is there a reason why there's only so few? The only reason I can think of is that these aren't profitable.

Is International First Class Profitable?
 

it's not very difficult to understand, when first class is 10k and business is 3,5k 9/10 you'll "settle" with business class.

plus, the evolutions and improvements in business class seating in the last 10-15 years have closed the gap significantly between F & J. these days there isn't much of a difference in terms of the actual seat or comfort offered. is the caviar and Krug really worth the extra thousands?

First class seating is probably marginally less profitable than filling the same space with more business class seating. Also I doubt most first-class passengers pay full-fare, whereas business class full-fare is common especially among business travelers.

Is International First Class Profitable?
 

I think the answer depends on the route (and to some extent, the airline)

Over all carriers that offer it? I doubt it, since they've been systematically getting rid of F space over the years. For certain routes, you bet.

It's actually a bargain for certain high-value customers who might otherwise charter a jet for 100k USD for a long-haul trip.

Not really. Corporate contracts and such mean many are paying discounts there, too.

But to the OP's question, the market for F is shrinking rapidly. There are very few routes/markets in which passengers will actually pay - be it full fare or contracted discounts - for first class. It is disappearing in general, though it does remain in a few niche areas.

Also, First class offerings are not consistent across airlines. For instance, First class on AF might be considered equal to business on KE or SQ. While First class on EK or SQ is of a completely different order.

I agree there is a trend towards business class replacing first class (and premium economy replacing business class) but I disagree first class will be eliminated entirely or be strictly a niche product.

There are still quite a number of major international carriers (and two US ones-UA and AA) that still offer first class, it is not as niche as you claim. If those carriers found first class unprofitable, they would have eliminated it long ago (since airlines are so fanatical in controlling cost). The fact these airlines have retain it means it does make money for them. Hence it is profitable enough for them to keep it.

Does it cost the airline three times as much to fly a person first class? If so, why doesn't it cost 3x miles to redeem? Does an F seat take up 3x the space of a J seat?

Y 1k, Y+ 1.5k, J 3k, F 5k may get more people to pay for F.

Of course if you have suites or showers in F then that takes up more space and a higher cost would be justified.

Does the presence of an F cabin encourage people to book J on that airline with the hope of snagging an upgrade, perhaps?

we flew first on UA iad-nrt-iad. no krug and no caviar. i think the meals were very close to idntidcal to biz. the wines were $25-30 shelf priced. the ua global first lounges at sfo, iad, and nrt were nice. the lounge at nrt for ana was the nicest. the beds in first were much nicer than on biz class.

the ana nrt lounge had $50 shelf wines.

i would place total value increased at around $2-300 max.

That's very poor reasoning.

Sometimes it takes a business quite a while to cut a money-losing product line. But by your logic, the mere fact that a product-line exists means that the product is surely profitable.

If only running a business were that easy!

BTW, I've flown UA international first class. It's a joke to call it "first class." I've had better overall experiences in J on several other airlines.

It might for some. Yet the "2 cabin" airlines often have a much better J product than the 3 cabin airlines. I generally want to be in the airline's front cabin. I'd rather be there at the time of booking than some illusory chance of a last minute UG to an F cabin. The airlines that have a luxurious F cabin don't generally make it something that one can easily upgrade into.

Yes, but many would suggest UA first class is "First Class Lite". Try ANA on the IAD-NRT routing to see the difference.

(But as to is it worth the premium ANA charges, my answer would be no)

we flew first on UA iad-nrt-iad. no krug and no caviar. i think the meals were very close to idntidcal to biz. the wines were $25-30 shelf priced. the ua global first lounges at sfo, iad, and nrt were nice. the lounge at nrt for ana was the nicest. the beds in first were much nicer than on biz class.

The other thing is the cabin size, fewer pax, calmer atmosphere, more personal approach although that depends on the crew at the time. I think people who don't regularly fly might use it for that special treat, those who can afford it do it all the time. Every time I've flown trans Atlantic (maybe 3 or 4 times a year in F) the cabin's been full.