Hidden city - specific question
 

Hello community of flyers :),

I am new here, so please excuse me if this was answered elsewhere.

Today I booked a round trip flight from A to B and back from B to A.

The actual trip that I booked goes A-B-C then C-B-A. I did this because a flight from A to B alone is around 850 while this flight cost me 250. Once I did this, I felt smart until I looked it up and found out that it is prohibited and the rest of my flight might get cancelled. So now I will go from A to B, but my return flight will be cancelled as I didnt show up on the B-C and C-B flights. Even though I understand that, my question is this:

If I call the airline and let them know that I need to drop the first leg of my return flight, I read that they will charge me 150 + the difference to a one way flight. The one way flight is listed at 500 right now. So does that mean that if I pay 150+125 (which is 250/2) I could get a one way flight? That would mean that it would cost me 275+250=525 which would still be a better deal than 850. Even if they charge me 150+250=400, that would mean I paid in total 650 instead of 850. Is my logic correct? In other words, this could be used as another way to save some money even though hidden city is "prohibited". Thanks!

Welcome to FT!
It would be helpful if you posted the actual flights and/or cities involved.
Each non-refundable ticket has different rules and those rules differ depending the airline.
If you want assistance, you need to give more information.

Thanks for your answer. Basically Im flying from ELM to DET. I booked a round trip flight from ELM to DET to ORL . I will miss the second leg of my flight there, and the first leg of the flight back. I understand that as soon as I dont show up on the DET to ORL flight, the rest of the ticket (return flight) will be cancelled. Im flying delta.

The route that I will be taking is listed (using the same ELM<>DET flights) at 850. The flight I booked is 250. A 1 way flight on the desired date from DET to ELM is listed around 500. So the question is, would it still be more economical calling the airline and changing my ticket with paying the fee and the difference (to buy a new, one way ticket) than it would have been to just pay 850 for the direct round trip? From my above calculations, it sounds like it!

One of the crucial things that make hidden city ticketing work is that you must purchase a one-way fare both ways, or perhaps a RoundTrip on the return if it's cheaper. I would call the airline, but they'll probably tell you the standard change fee + difference of fare. But call and see if you can get someone who can help, you never know...

Thanks for the reply. Just wondering, has there been a case where the airline just agreed to cancel the "B<>C" legs for free while keeping the same itenerary? I mean you are letting them re-sell that seat, so I feel like they shouldn't be penalizing people..

DL has software which instantly reprices an itinerary. Presuming that you are on a discounted non-refundable fare, if you make a change, you will pay

Due = Fare paid - $200 (change fee) + New Fare

In your example, you have a $250 ticket and you will need to buy a $850 ticket. That will cost you $800 (calculated as $800=$250-200+850). If you choose to buy two one-ways, it will cost you $950 (calculated as $950=$250-200+1000).

Air carriers really aren't that stupid.

Hmm I see your point. However, once I dont show up at the second flight and my return flight gets cancelled, I can simply buy a 1 way ticket back for 500. That means I would have spent 750 all together, which is cheaper than your calculations, which doesnt really make sense. I assume that contacting them about changing my current flight should be cheaper than just not showing up and buying a 1 way flight back. Am I wrong?

since you just purchased this today, you can cancel the entire reservation with no penalty

then, as others have suggested, see if you can purchase ELM-DTW-MCO one way for $125 and DTW-ELM for $425

alternatively, look for connections (such as FNT or LAN or GRR) that might drive down the cost of the return flight and are still close enough to DTW where you could actually get there and fly both segments

Thanks for the reply. I read that if you book two 1-way flights and you miss a leg on the first 1 way flight, your second one will be automatically cancelled as well. Is that not true?

Im seeing that the flight from DTW to MCO is pretty full, considering my ticket doesnt have a seat assigned and it states "assigned at gate". Would it be a good idea to just roll with the ticket I bought and hope for an oversold situation? Then I can "give up my seat"and just stay in Detroit and hopefully not get my return flight canceled? Decisions decisions.

OP having read the COC provisions can easily figure out how to purchase lawful transportation to/from the location he wishes to visit.

In the latest hypothetical, in order to save $100, OP places himself at risk for two change/cancellation fees if there is any issue with his travel. If he buys a one-way ELM-DTW-XXX and another one-way DTW-ELM, that will cost him roughly $750 ($250 + $500). But, if by any chance he has to cancel his trip, it will cost him $400 instead of $200 to do so (each ticket gets its own change fee). And, if there's WX or some other issue on the ELM-DTW which causes you to cancel your trip (without penalty), you are still stuck with an unused return for which you paid $500 and have to pay a $200 penalty to use.

FT is full of examples of just how easily this stuff goes wrong. Committing fraud to save $100 and then losing significantly more than than when circumstances go wrong, is a lose-lose.

How is this fraud? I paid for my ticket in full, and Im just looking to find ways to save money on the ridiculously priced flights that are themselves, fraud. I am practicing capitalism against monopolies.

What monopoly? The US has not licensed air routings since 1984. Any air carrier is free to come in and compete on the ELM-DTW route if it wishes. Apparently there is no other carrier which believes that there is a profit to be made on the route, so only DL offers the service. That's not an illegal monopoly.

There are thousands of posts like OP's on FT. Bottom line is that the passenger contracts with a carrier under provisions to which he expressly agrees and knows, at the time he contracts he does not intend to honor and further knows that he is engaging in conduct which violates the contract.

That's fraud (either or both of wire fraud and mail fraud).

Not suggesting that anybody goes to prison for this, just simply that it is, in fact, fraud.

Thanks for your reply. You seem to be more knowledgeable than me about airline rules. However, legally, the fact of the matter is that this behavior cannot be expressed as "fraud". As previously compared, this is like Mcdonald's charging you money for not finishing your fries. It's a ridiculous concept to say the least. I would argue that the airline is commiting fraud by re-selling the same seat twice. Many flights are always overbooked, for the sole purpose of making more money, which is obviously working. It is illegal to sell the same item or even list it twice "hoping" somebody would cancel their purchase, which is exactly what airlines have been doing. At the end of the day, the same way they are allowed to price their products, I am allowed to choose to buy/not buy some of their products, and find the cheapest way for me to use what they are selling. That, is capitalism, and not fraud.

As you wrote in your original post above, you purchased a round trip ticket from A to C. You did not purchase a ticket from A to B and the airline isn't obliged to route you through B on the way from A to C. Don't be surprised if the airline changes the A to C routing between now and your flight, as this often happens.

You're obviously trying to be clever by hoping to violate the terms defined in the contract of carriage, which you apparently didn't read prior to purchasing your ticket. This isn't "practicing capitalism against monopolies". It's practicing deceit against capitalism to pay less for what you want. That makes it fraud in my book too.

the ELM-DTW-MCO ticket is a "contract" between the OP and DL for air transportation between origin and destination

DL only serves DTW from ELM so questions about IROPS rerouting are moot

it's entirely up to the OP in terms of the ethics of using hidden-city ticketing

Hidden city - specific question
 

I think using the term fraud is a bit unfair. OP and the airline agreed to a contract with specific terms and conditions, including penalties for violation of the hidden city clause. Depending on how it's written, the airline may choose to enforce those penalties, if the OP violates that rule. The penalty could include forfeiture of ff account, monetary penalties, or ban on future services. If the OP wants to take that risk, it's OP's choice to make. I would not expect the airline to be sympathetic to your plight, and if irrops occur, OP would be in an even worse situation.

Thanks for starting my weekend with a hearty guffaw.

And to add to the risk, if the airlines determines he has used a hidden city ticketing, the carrier has the right to charge him the original fare from ELM-DTW, and this will have a higher probability of happen when he calls the carrier to cancel his last leg, and to have the RT changed to drop the first leg on the RT.

All the response so far from the OP is showing that he thinks this is common practices, and nearly all post on FTs on this subject on various forums states that one should not do it, as the carrier can imposed numerous actions or penalties, such as suspending your FF account, recalculating the charge, etc.

All response so far has stated "Don't do it", debating whether you should have the right to do it is a moot point.

Wouldn't two round-trips, throwing away the extra segment as well as the return, come out cheaper? If you don't put in your frequent flyer number you should be ok, although the moral qualms (if you have them) don't change. Throwing away the return of a round-trip (although not with a hidden city) is something that was obligatory at an agency I used to work with. It was in the day of printed tickets, and they didn't even bother giving the traveler the return coupon. Of course, things may have changed ...

I know this route and have flown it often, although my final destination is not Detroit. I am a newbie too, but as many of the experienced FT people above recommend, don't do this. If you purchased your ticket yesterday, you have 24 hours to cancel. Cancel it and rebook. I looked at some fares for the route you want and, of course it depends on when you want to fly but, the fare is 491 and up. Book a round trip and be safe.

This is the correct response. It answers the OP's question without the moralizing. If one wants to do a roundtrip hidden city trip to BBB, do this:

One-way ticket AAA-BBB-CCC and skip the BBB-CCC segment
One-way ticket BBB-AAA (not possible to hidden city the return)

If booked separately, skipping BBB-CCC does not cause the airline to cancel the return one-way flight.

You can't check luggage to BBB, except for an international trip where BBB is the arrival city for US customs.

This won't work because when the passenger tries to board in the hub city for his return, he will find that his ticket has been canceled because the first segment was not flown. This could have worked in the era of paper tickets, as you are remembering.

Double roundtrips can still theoretically be booked for the purpose of evading Saturday night stay requirements. However, a human travel agent is unlikely to cooperate with such a scheme. It also might be caught by the airline because the dual trips are visible in the passenger's record of upcoming trips. This does work, however, if the roundtrips are booked on DIFFERENT airlines.

Thanks everyone for your replies. What ended up happening is at the airport they simply dropped the last segment of the flight for me, for no additional charges. Though I wont do this again as it was kind of a pain, I saved around 700 dollars for my trip. Back to my capitalism point, it's really not something to laugh at, yet something to respect. I think that using common sense, a flight to Orlando should cost more than a flight 1 hour away, considering airline expenses. However, obviously pricing has nothing to do with mileage/gas, but only with competition/economics. I believe that what I practiced is capitalism, though I understand that I agree to a contract with the airlines when I purchase their product. Just as the airlines find "tricks" to charge more, being pricing more due to less competition per route or by charging for luggage, I have every right to find "tricks" that save me money (as long as it's not against US law, and as long as it doesnt hurt me), thus it's a free market. All in all, this trip taught me a lot, and I will always look to find what suits me best, in the air and on the ground :)

Thanks all for clarifying this for me, and happy flying!

Would you mind explaining to the audience what exactly happened?

Did you keep your original booked roundtip tickets?

Yep, basically they dropped B-C and C-B so I kept the roundtrip that I want. Granted that's probably because Ive always been a customer and had never done anything like that before.

Since you're so big on capitalism, consider supply and demand. Tickets to Orlando cost less because the supply is so much greater. Delta must compete against a lot of different airlines on flights to Orlando so the ticket prices are lower including Allegiant which flies the route for as low as $142 round trip. Delta is the only airline that offers non-stop ELM-DTW flights so supply is much tighter. That's how the price gets set. If they could sell ELM-MCO for $800 round trip they certainly would.

Did you look at USAirways for your trip? Looks like they have round trip ELM-DTW fares as low as $360. Of course you'll have to connect through Philly if you don't want to pay the premium to fly non-stop on delta.

You'd think but airline ticket prices are based off supply and demand and the market between city pairs. It's a lot like real-estate. The market is just as important as the direct cost; think about it - a 2,000 square foot house in the middle-of-nowhere Texas sells for a lot less than a house of the same size along the California coast. What happened here was you did not really buy an "Elmira - Detroit - Orlando" ticket - you bought an "Elmira - Orlando" ticket. What you are doing is taking advantage of the fact that the "Elmira - Orlando" ticket goes by way of Detroit. If the flight did not go by way of Detroit (say DL's hub was Pittsburgh and you had to go ELM-PIT-DTW), you would not be able to engage in this practice to get to Detroit; you would be stuck buying an ELM-DTW ticket to ensure you get to Detroit. I'm not getting into the ethics of whether hidden city is moral or immoral; just merely explaining how airline tickets are market based; not direct-cost based.

Just for future reference, it's not an issue with this example because DL only goes through DTW from Elmira, but hidden city ticketing does come with risks - one of those risks is that the airline has no obligation to transport you through the hub in which you plan to terminate, but only a resposibility to get you to your ticketed destination. For example, if you were booked BUF-DTW-MCO and planning to get off in DTW, and then the BUF-DTW flight gets cancelled, DL is free to reroute you via any of its hubs it serves from BUF to get you to MCO. For this reason, it's recommended that anyone planning to engage in "Hidden City" use cities close to their planned destination, such as FNT for DTW or CHA for ATL so that if you are rerouted, you're still close to your actual destination. Also, don't plan to check any bags - they will be routed to your final ticketed destination.

The other risk (which has been covered in this discussion); technically the airline has the right to go back and charge you the fare for the route you ended up flying rather than the route you were ticketed. If you keep your hidden city tickets to a minimum, you can get away with it; make a frequent occurence, and the airline might come after you.

1) Doesn't exist.

2) Invoked by the lazy.

3) Thanks for the giggle.