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Ethical Question: Amenities kits in F/J left behind by psgrs. fair game?

Ethical Question: Amenities kits in F/J left behind by psgrs. fair game?

Old Sep 27, 2013, 7:47 am
  #46  
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Originally Posted by blackdawn2
Would you consider yourself to be a hoarder?
No.

Originally Posted by Annalisa12
It was not given to you, it is not yours. Doesn't that make it stealing?
No.
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Old Sep 27, 2013, 8:50 am
  #47  
 
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Originally Posted by Annalisa12
It was not given to you, it is not yours.
Well that's a peculiar (and innacurate) maxim.

Acquisition of items does not come only through gifting or buying. "Finders keepers" for a start.
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Old Sep 27, 2013, 8:50 am
  #48  
 
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I've never been in bad enough a financial or any sort of other position to even think about swiping an abandoned amenity kit.
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Old Sep 27, 2013, 9:29 am
  #49  
 
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Originally Posted by Delta Hog
Well that's a peculiar (and innacurate) maxim.

Acquisition of items does not come only through gifting or buying. "Finders keepers" for a start.
"Finders keepers" belongs on the playground with 6 year olds. Adults are supposed to have the ability to discern what belongs to themselves and what is the property of others. If your ticket for air travel did not include a class of service which includes an amenity kit, you do not have the right to unilaterally "upgrade" yourself and take one.

I take back my previous comment about taking amenity kits left behind on a plane not being a crime. Since making it, I have learned that

1. Airlines do reuse unopened ones left behind

2. These kits sell in online auctions for $60 to $300, so my previous analogy to hotel toiletries was wrong. Helping yourself to one isn't taking shampoo, it's taking the bed or desk or TV.
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Old Sep 27, 2013, 9:36 am
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Originally Posted by CDTraveler
"Finders keepers" belongs on the playground with 6 year olds. Adults are supposed to have the ability to discern what belongs to themselves and what is the property of others. If your ticket for air travel did not include a class of service which includes an amenity kit, you do not have the right to unilaterally "upgrade" yourself and take one.

I take back my previous comment about taking amenity kits left behind on a plane not being a crime. Since making it, I have learned that

1. Airlines do reuse unopened ones left behind

2. These kits sell in online auctions for $60 to $300, so my previous analogy to hotel toiletries was wrong. Helping yourself to one isn't taking shampoo, it's taking the bed or desk or TV.
Well, I wouldn't take one (if for no other reason, than I wouldn't know if the owner had truly "abandoned" or whether they were just in the bathroom before deplaning or something).

What if it was perfectly clear the owner abandoned? Say, if the owner carried it off the plane and then left it in a seat in the terminal and walked away. Can one take it then?
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Old Sep 27, 2013, 10:11 am
  #51  
 
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A couple of months ago I rode in J just behind a nearly empty F to LHR. I was SO tempted to grab one of the amenity packaged in an iPad holder...but I didn't. It wasn't mine to take.
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Old Sep 27, 2013, 10:14 am
  #52  
 
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Originally Posted by CDTraveler
2. These kits sell in online auctions for $60 to $300, so my previous analogy to hotel toiletries was wrong. Helping yourself to one isn't taking shampoo, it's taking the bed or desk or TV.
I hadn't even considered this. Now the motivation for stealing these from the cabin becomes more clear. I'm amazed that people actually pay multiple hundreds of dollars for these things.

However, this isn't the same thing as taking a bed or desk from the hotel room. Those aren't intended to be removed by any guests, and it would essentially make that room non-rentable. If the airline couldn't give an amenity kit to a premium passenger, that wouldn't prevent the airline from filling the seat and providing their primary service.

With any luck, airline reps are reading this thread and begin directing the cabin crews to collect up any unused or unwanted amenity kits before landing to prevent the bottom feeders from taking them.

(Note: not all Y pax are bottom feeders, just those who steal things not intended for them without asking)
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Old Sep 27, 2013, 10:21 am
  #53  
 
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Originally Posted by Delta Hog
What if it was perfectly clear the owner abandoned? Say, if the owner carried it off the plane and then left it in a seat in the terminal and walked away. Can one take it then?
You mean you've never seen anybody get off the plane with two handfuls of stuff, stop at a seat, rearrange the stuff and forget or drop something? I used to travel with somebody who did that every time. If you saw a cell phone sitting on a seat, would you assume it was abandoned?

If I saw something that wasn't clearly disposable (disposable in my view: newspaper, coffee cup, half candy bar or similar) I would assume it to be lost or forgotten, not abandoned.
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Old Sep 27, 2013, 10:39 am
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Originally Posted by CDTraveler
You mean you've never seen anybody get off the plane with two handfuls of stuff, stop at a seat, rearrange the stuff and forget or drop something? I used to travel with somebody who did that every time. If you saw a cell phone sitting on a seat, would you assume it was abandoned?

If I saw something that wasn't clearly disposable (disposable in my view: newspaper, coffee cup, half candy bar or similar) I would assume it to be lost or forgotten, not abandoned.
Fair enough.

I think, correct me if I am wrong, we agree that something truly "abandoned" and without a secondary owner (secondary owner = situation like the airline reclaiming an unused kit after primary owner leaves) is up for grabs.

If that's true, we're only debating when it can be known that something is truly "abandoned" and whether it has a secondary owner.
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Old Sep 27, 2013, 2:17 pm
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I would grab it. I rarely use them, but my kids like them and they would fight over just one.
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Old Sep 27, 2013, 6:59 pm
  #56  
 
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Originally Posted by Delta Hog
Fair enough.

I think, correct me if I am wrong, we agree that something truly "abandoned" and without a secondary owner (secondary owner = situation like the airline reclaiming an unused kit after primary owner leaves) is up for grabs.

If that's true, we're only debating when it can be known that something is truly "abandoned" and whether it has a secondary owner.
O.k. if you see somebody exit the jetway and then stand in the concourse holding out an amenity kit as they shout "Anybody want this?" then it's safe to grab. Or maybe they could put it in a seat with a little sign that says "Free to good home" but then it might be considered an abandoned bag in security terms, there'd be a terminal dump and the authorities would take it away and blow it up.

I really don't envision "abandoned bags" sitting around airports just waiting to be claimed in the post 9/11 world.

What other types of property do you see as abandoned and available in the real world? Sometimes our city has large item trash collection days; some people drive around and grab things set out for the trash haulers. I would consider that something put curbside for the trash truck is abandoned. Beyond that, I just don't know of much I'd consider to be abandoned, unless you want to count pets or litter on the list. I work with an animal rescue group and the way people will dump their pet in a box and leave it on the shelter doorstep is sickening.
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Old Sep 28, 2013, 4:53 pm
  #57  
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To the people who think it's fair game as it is left behind. What if there is a handbag left on a seat or floor in P or J do you consider that "abandoned" and feel it's your right to take that?
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Old Sep 29, 2013, 8:20 am
  #58  
 
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Originally Posted by Annalisa12
To the people who think it's fair game as it is left behind. What if there is a handbag left on a seat or floor in P or J do you consider that "abandoned" and feel it's your right to take that?
That's has nothing to do with this topic.

Obviously if you find a personal belonging from a pax you hand it in to the crew.
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Old Sep 29, 2013, 8:47 am
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Originally Posted by sperrgepaeck
That's has nothing to do with this topic.

Obviously if you find a personal belonging from a pax you hand it in to the crew.
An amenity kit is a "personal belonging" seeing as it was given to an individual sitting in a specific seat in a specific class of service who paid a certain price.
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Old Sep 29, 2013, 9:06 am
  #60  
 
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Originally Posted by Annalisa12
To the people who think it's fair game as it is left behind. What if there is a handbag left on a seat or floor in P or J do you consider that "abandoned" and feel it's your right to take that?
This is a silly argument, as is the one a previous poster made about a laptop. It's fair to assume that the owner of a laptop or handbag did not intend to leave it behind, whereas we can assume that someone who left an amenity kit did. There's a difference between forgotten and abandoned.
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