Corporate Flight Policies for Employees Booking Business/First Class?
#331
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: DTW/MBS
Programs: UA 1K, HHonors Diamond, Hyatt Globalist, Formerly Starbucks Gold
Posts: 3,524
Can't help, but can only share - at my old employer, if you needed a medical exception for J travel, the company didn't let you travel.
#333
Suspended
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 1,808
My company allows J for flights over 12 hours, with approval from above. We go to Asia frequently, so that's not a problem. However, I have been aggravatingly close on some routes to Europe and South America and end up upgrading out of pocket. DCA to GRU was exactly 12. LAX to LHR is 11.
Even when the policy restricts me to a Y ticket, our booking system permits us to include our own FF account numbers and collect rewards. I am an AA Plat, soon to be Exec. Plat later this week when my recent transpacs hit...but in addition the company itself get's Pref. status, so my base booking tends to be MCE or Pref, and I get UG'd from there to J or F either by auto-ugs, a cheap out of pocket buy up, or by dropping a few 500 Mile UGs to maintain status. I won't have to do that after Exec however.
Although AA is my airline of choice, their presence in my base city is not terribly strong, although the OW alliance helps. WN is...but I hate them with a fiery passion and have learned to work the auto-exception messages in our travel software to justify taking AA instead, even if it means stops and barbie jets (I have no problem with barbie jets). "Scheduling" is my favorite excuse, even when not true. I don't ever buy Biz Select at booking, I don't fly WN enough to have A List, however on the rare occasions when I HAVE to endure WN I do buy EBCI out of pocket or ug my position during a cheap gate-upgrade opportunity.
Even when the policy restricts me to a Y ticket, our booking system permits us to include our own FF account numbers and collect rewards. I am an AA Plat, soon to be Exec. Plat later this week when my recent transpacs hit...but in addition the company itself get's Pref. status, so my base booking tends to be MCE or Pref, and I get UG'd from there to J or F either by auto-ugs, a cheap out of pocket buy up, or by dropping a few 500 Mile UGs to maintain status. I won't have to do that after Exec however.
Although AA is my airline of choice, their presence in my base city is not terribly strong, although the OW alliance helps. WN is...but I hate them with a fiery passion and have learned to work the auto-exception messages in our travel software to justify taking AA instead, even if it means stops and barbie jets (I have no problem with barbie jets). "Scheduling" is my favorite excuse, even when not true. I don't ever buy Biz Select at booking, I don't fly WN enough to have A List, however on the rare occasions when I HAVE to endure WN I do buy EBCI out of pocket or ug my position during a cheap gate-upgrade opportunity.
#334
Suspended
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 1,808
That's both stupid and difficult to enforce. Once the booking is made and paid for, how would they know you ended up upgraded later?
What if it wasn't even a frequent flier upgrade or buy up, but a rare bit of luck...your seat is broken, Y is full, suddenly you are in F? Are you supposed to turn it down?
I had a boss that was just terrible. I had been a VERY frequent flier prior to going to that company, so I had tons and tons of miles and was still enjoying the benefits of high tier elite status, and getting auto upgrades on every flight we were taking. Not only that, I was skilled at booking the lowest fares. A colleague...let's call him "Jones"...and I had to fly somewhere for a meeting. I paid 200 something for my base fare, and Jones paid almost 300 for the same flight. I got upgraded to F. Boss hears about it and tries to dress me down for it..."You are not supposed to fly in First Class"...I told him I bought a coach ticket. He says "You are not supposed to fly First Class". I explained how FF programs work. I also explained that my upgrade, was..technically..up to the airline, not me. "You are not supposed to fly First Class. It doesn't look good to your peers".
Of course, he got fired months later for expense abuses.
What if it wasn't even a frequent flier upgrade or buy up, but a rare bit of luck...your seat is broken, Y is full, suddenly you are in F? Are you supposed to turn it down?
I had a boss that was just terrible. I had been a VERY frequent flier prior to going to that company, so I had tons and tons of miles and was still enjoying the benefits of high tier elite status, and getting auto upgrades on every flight we were taking. Not only that, I was skilled at booking the lowest fares. A colleague...let's call him "Jones"...and I had to fly somewhere for a meeting. I paid 200 something for my base fare, and Jones paid almost 300 for the same flight. I got upgraded to F. Boss hears about it and tries to dress me down for it..."You are not supposed to fly in First Class"...I told him I bought a coach ticket. He says "You are not supposed to fly First Class". I explained how FF programs work. I also explained that my upgrade, was..technically..up to the airline, not me. "You are not supposed to fly First Class. It doesn't look good to your peers".
Of course, he got fired months later for expense abuses.
#335
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: ATL
Programs: DL Scattered Smothered Covered Medallion, Some hotel & car stuff, Kroger Plus Card
Posts: 10,742
That's both stupid and difficult to enforce. Once the booking is made and paid for, how would they know you ended up upgraded later?
What if it wasn't even a frequent flier upgrade or buy up, but a rare bit of luck...your seat is broken, Y is full, suddenly you are in F? Are you supposed to turn it down?
I had a boss that was just terrible. I had been a VERY frequent flier prior to going to that company, so I had tons and tons of miles and was still enjoying the benefits of high tier elite status, and getting auto upgrades on every flight we were taking. Not only that, I was skilled at booking the lowest fares. A colleague...let's call him "Jones"...and I had to fly somewhere for a meeting. I paid 200 something for my base fare, and Jones paid almost 300 for the same flight. I got upgraded to F. Boss hears about it and tries to dress me down for it..."You are not supposed to fly in First Class"...I told him I bought a coach ticket. He says "You are not supposed to fly First Class". I explained how FF programs work. I also explained that my upgrade, was..technically..up to the airline, not me. "You are not supposed to fly First Class. It doesn't look good to your peers".
Of course, he got fired months later for expense abuses.
What if it wasn't even a frequent flier upgrade or buy up, but a rare bit of luck...your seat is broken, Y is full, suddenly you are in F? Are you supposed to turn it down?
I had a boss that was just terrible. I had been a VERY frequent flier prior to going to that company, so I had tons and tons of miles and was still enjoying the benefits of high tier elite status, and getting auto upgrades on every flight we were taking. Not only that, I was skilled at booking the lowest fares. A colleague...let's call him "Jones"...and I had to fly somewhere for a meeting. I paid 200 something for my base fare, and Jones paid almost 300 for the same flight. I got upgraded to F. Boss hears about it and tries to dress me down for it..."You are not supposed to fly in First Class"...I told him I bought a coach ticket. He says "You are not supposed to fly First Class". I explained how FF programs work. I also explained that my upgrade, was..technically..up to the airline, not me. "You are not supposed to fly First Class. It doesn't look good to your peers".
Of course, he got fired months later for expense abuses.
I stopped working there for many reasons, travel related and not.
#336
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Minneapolis: DL DM charter 2.3MM
Programs: A3*Gold, SPG Plat, HyattDiamond, MarriottPP, LHW exAccess, ICI, Raffles Amb, NW PE MM, TWA Gold MM
Posts: 100,334
Target is rumored to have a 100% coach (or basic economy I suspect if available), no exceptions even for free upgrades, policy. They also want their employees to use ULCC carriers.
OTOH, I know someone whose employer offered to buy a FC ticket for coast to coast travel fairly late in a pregnancy. This was even before USA carriers started selling domestic FC cheap.
OTOH, I know someone whose employer offered to buy a FC ticket for coast to coast travel fairly late in a pregnancy. This was even before USA carriers started selling domestic FC cheap.
#337
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: DTW/MBS
Programs: UA 1K, HHonors Diamond, Hyatt Globalist, Formerly Starbucks Gold
Posts: 3,524
I wish glassdoor had more information on companies and their policies. It's just something I'm fascinated by, as it's just all over the place, regardless of company size.
#338
Suspended
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 1,808
I used to work for a company with this policy, and yes, we were supposed to decline upgrades. They made us submit boarding passes with our expense reports (which obviously doesn't address BFUGs, but they thought it did). As with what you described, it was 100% an image and perception thing - they didn't want anyone to be seen enjoying anything that could be seen as elite or luxurious. This even ended up costing them more $ sometimes since a free upgrade would sometimes mean one less meal I had to buy.
I stopped working there for many reasons, travel related and not.
I stopped working there for many reasons, travel related and not.
And policies that restrict employees to just one carrier, hotel chain, rental car company etc are always a bad idea. Inevitably you end up paying more..even with a corporate rate..when competitors slash their prices for whatever reason. I worked for a company that was all about WN because they thought it was cheapest...it's not. I have had the conversation too many times...I save the company a few hundred (and in once case, 2k) and get asked why I didn't spend more to stick with their preferred vendor. Yeah..maybe there is another contractual incentive somewhere..but my bottom line is my budget, and that's my responsibility.
#339
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: AGH
Posts: 5,951
And policies that restrict employees to just one carrier, hotel chain, rental car company etc are always a bad idea. Inevitably you end up paying more..even with a corporate rate..when competitors slash their prices for whatever reason. I worked for a company that was all about WN because they thought it was cheapest...it's not. I have had the conversation too many times...I save the company a few hundred (and in once case, 2k) and get asked why I didn't spend more to stick with their preferred vendor. Yeah..maybe there is another contractual incentive somewhere..but my bottom line is my budget, and that's my responsibility.
Sure, if you have to manage your departments budget you might not see it. I think the company needs to make it clear to their managers why a policy like that makes a lot of sense.
Last edited by fassy; Jul 26, 2018 at 11:11 pm
#340
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: PHL
Programs: AA ExP, Marriott Amb, National EAE, Hilton Diamond, SPG Plat (RIP), US CP (RIP)
Posts: 2,372
It would also make sense if the incentives are pro-rated back to the purchasing department. Instead I often see these directed to one or two areas. So individual managers pay negotiated rates which may not be the cheapest available impacting their budgets while others benefit via receiving the incentives / kickbacks. Essentially these deals are shadow budgeting one preferred functional area at the expense of other budgets.
#341
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: AGH
Posts: 5,951
In in my company the shareholders never look at sales and business development cost, but want to save every penny on manufacturing operations...
#342
Join Date: Jan 2014
Programs: Amtrak Guest Rewards (SE), Virgin America Elevate, Hyatt Gold Passport (Platinum), VIA Preference
Posts: 3,134
(1) I've heard that some state government agencies have "no upgrade" policies in place...CA, in particular, seems to be pretty bad about this. It's about a frugal image. I suspect some exceptions might pop up if health concerns and/or disability issues come into the mix, but otherwise it is apparently a painfully hard policy.
(1a) I suspect that if you won the "broken seat" lottery, most "hard no-upgrade" agencies and companies would swallow it...those are rare enough that I think most of them would at least give you a pass on it once. A picture of the broken seat would probably help.
(2) In cases where there's a "hard" preferred vendor policy (e.g. "Thou shalt use this airline even if you have to fly into a different city and drive three hours when you could have gotten a cheaper flight overall into a close-by airport on another airline) as opposed to a softer one (e.g. "Use the preferred airline if you can, but if they don't fly there or there's a price difference of more than $X/X%, feel free to take the other option"), it seems like it would be a good idea for the company in question to give at least some sense of why the policy is that firm (arguably, in both directions: Down the chain so they don't get stuck playing "Whack-a-mole" with employees trying to save the company money and potentially "shooting" a good deal in the foot, and up the chain so it doesn't turn out that the travel office is manipulating the partnerships in question to get free travel).
Incidentally, the late AlanB once told me about how he got a long-term client to sign off on letting him take the Metroliner in First on a regular basis after he discovered that as a DC-NYC travel option (this was back in the 90s and the client basically didn't "get" the idea of taking a train):
His contract stipulated that travel time was to be paid for, but that hadn't generally been enforced too hard. If they wanted him in Coach on a flight, they could pay for the three hours of "airport time" generally required (plus the airline ticket that, IIRC, was more expensive than the Amtrak ticket)...or they could accept the Metroliner fare and not worry about travel time.
(1a) I suspect that if you won the "broken seat" lottery, most "hard no-upgrade" agencies and companies would swallow it...those are rare enough that I think most of them would at least give you a pass on it once. A picture of the broken seat would probably help.
(2) In cases where there's a "hard" preferred vendor policy (e.g. "Thou shalt use this airline even if you have to fly into a different city and drive three hours when you could have gotten a cheaper flight overall into a close-by airport on another airline) as opposed to a softer one (e.g. "Use the preferred airline if you can, but if they don't fly there or there's a price difference of more than $X/X%, feel free to take the other option"), it seems like it would be a good idea for the company in question to give at least some sense of why the policy is that firm (arguably, in both directions: Down the chain so they don't get stuck playing "Whack-a-mole" with employees trying to save the company money and potentially "shooting" a good deal in the foot, and up the chain so it doesn't turn out that the travel office is manipulating the partnerships in question to get free travel).
Incidentally, the late AlanB once told me about how he got a long-term client to sign off on letting him take the Metroliner in First on a regular basis after he discovered that as a DC-NYC travel option (this was back in the 90s and the client basically didn't "get" the idea of taking a train):
His contract stipulated that travel time was to be paid for, but that hadn't generally been enforced too hard. If they wanted him in Coach on a flight, they could pay for the three hours of "airport time" generally required (plus the airline ticket that, IIRC, was more expensive than the Amtrak ticket)...or they could accept the Metroliner fare and not worry about travel time.
#343
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Finally back in Boston after escaping from New York
Posts: 13,643
#344
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: DTW/MBS
Programs: UA 1K, HHonors Diamond, Hyatt Globalist, Formerly Starbucks Gold
Posts: 3,524
This is the cloest I've ever found - Corporate Travel 100: Business Travel News - but it makes no mention of what the actual policies are - just preferred options for carriers and hotels. I used to work for a company in the top third, and we definitely had an all Y policy unless you're a suit, so it I'm guessing that list would surprise many.
But maybe I should make a website/forum specifically for this. I think it would be interesting to hear and have discussions about it. And ways to game it.
But maybe I should make a website/forum specifically for this. I think it would be interesting to hear and have discussions about it. And ways to game it.
Last edited by BThumme; Jul 31, 2018 at 7:27 am
#345
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Finally back in Boston after escaping from New York
Posts: 13,643
This is the cloest I've ever found - Corporate Travel 100: Business Travel News - but it makes no mention of what the actual policies are - just preferred options for carriers and hotels. I used to work for a company in the top third, and we definitely had an all Y policy unless you're a suit, so it I'm guessing that list would surprise many.
But maybe I should make a website/forum specifically for this. I think it would be interesting to hear and have discussions about it. And ways to game it.
But maybe I should make a website/forum specifically for this. I think it would be interesting to hear and have discussions about it. And ways to game it.
Mike