Do you fly BIG on miles/points?
 

Hi All,

So let me ask a couple of questions that have been lingering in my head for a while about points, miles, and cashback...

-Since jumping into the miles games, do you ever fly in the back of the plane anymore? What about if you didn't/don't have status with any airline? Is your philosophy quality or quantity? More trips (back of the plane) or higher quality trips but less (front of the plane)?

-Same question about hotels: do you ever pay for hotel nights when you have tons of points banked? Now of course, if the cash rate is too good to pass up, then yeah, pay. But do you find yourself staying in nicer hotels because you have the points to make the stays free/cheap?

-Does anyone earn points faster than they can spend them? If you only have 3-4 weeks of vacation a year, I guess you can make the most of your vacation a burn through a lot of points/miles if you're staying at the nicest properties....

Thanks,
-WT

You'll naturally find all sorts of replies and reasoning here. As for me:

Except for hops of about 2 hours or less up and down the West Coast or abroad, I always upgrade. It helps a lot that I have complimentary domestic upgrades by virtue of my AA and UA status (though they are much more likely to clear on AA than UA), that I have upgrade certificates I can use if necessary, that as a last resort for domestic flights I can use miles from my fairly substantial mileage banks, and that I have the luxury of usually being able to plan trips weeks or even months in advance.

My own cut-off point for using $$ for hotels is about $200/night or so (unless of course I'm on a business trip and the client is paying). Beyond that, I usually use points, or cash + points options for vacations and other personal trips. The exception is overseas, particularly in parts of Asia where the points or C+P redemption levels are so low that I'll often opt for using them over even moderately priced hotels. And of course, part of the fun of accumulating points is to use them at great hotels that I could not afford otherwise.

Many folks, myself included, accumulate points and miles faster than we can spend them. Now, this goes against the conventional wisdom, which is that these are depreciating assets, so the longer you retain them the less they are worth. But between business travel and credit card spending and sign-up bonuses, at least for now my wife and I have more points and miles than we can use for at least certain airlines and hotel chains, even with a couple of very nice vacations per year. We do conserve in certain respects, however, in that we rarely stay at the most point-expensive hotels, such as some great Starwood properties in Europe, and often go to developing country destinations (again, especially in Asia) where the points requirements for great hotels are lower than elsewhere. But even those choices are driven much more by such factors as our choices of countries we want to explore and our preference for tropical locales.

We will always choose quantity (traveling more and further) and quality on the ground outside of the plane or hotel, over comfort and luxury in a canned setting. So those extra points are going to give us another long weekend, not a bed in the sky. But we are 2 points earners for 4 travelers, and I may someday wake up at 45 with the kids off to college and change my tune entirely. Or not. The unexpected most fun thing for me has been giving a trip to others.

I often fly back of plane. I don't travel at all for business, but have managed to maintain at least some level of status with Delta for about 4 years now. Mostly at the silver level, but one year popping up to Gold. My upgrades aren't plentiful, but not incredibly rare either.

As to redeeming miles, I have not yet flown anything but economy to Europe. I don't feel that it's all that valuable to me since I'm not likely to be able to sleep no matter what kind of seat I am in due to the time of day I usually leave the US. I try to keep my Business/1st redemptions for Asia, Australia, South Africa kinds of flights. But, I have flown economy to Australia so I can manage it again (I think) if I had to.

I do earn a lot of miles and points, but I never feel as if I earn them faster than I can use them. There is always something they can be used for, and if not I figure out something to use them on. I don't really have a travel bucket list or destinations in mind that I really want to go to. This year, for instance, I could end up in South Africa, or Thailand, or Europe, or all of the above. I just don't know.

Back of the plane for me...No status, no nuthin'. I prefer quantity over quality and haven't flown in the front of the plane since I was dating (a while ago...). Prefer "local" type hotels, vrbo's or B & B's, so don't stay in chain hotels very often, either.

Traveling for a family of 4, or girlfriend getaways, and points are accruing slightly faster than I can spend them, but not much! Don't really churn, either.

I'm focusing on regular trips (3-4x a year) on a budget without changing my life too much to accrue the points to do so. It's such a big world, I've got years of low priced award redemptions ahead of me! I look at the chart, figure out the points involved, and THAT"S one key factor in figuring out where I'll be going next!

Back of the plane for most paid international travel with an occasional splurge to Business. Lucky enough to get upgraded on most DL/AS routes (DL Plat). With that said, most of my award redemptions are in First/Business. I only have limited time when I travel and it helps to sleep comfortably whenever I fly long-haul.

Like you said, if the cash rate is too good, I normally just buy it and get more points. I have redeemed most of my hotel points stash on aspirational properties like Maldives, Seychelles or to a lesser extent, Singapore.

When I first started, I had millions of points stashed but then I realized that they weren't doing anybody any good just sitting there and devaluating. Since then, I've earned and burned more than 3 million miles/points. Whenever I get new miles in, it doesn't take long for them to be used up.

I try to use as many of my miles as I can to fly in C to Asia or Europe. I only use miles for coach if the price is really high. I haven't tried upgrading with miles, since it seems a little iffy.

I have no status at the moment, but with CCs and other offers I've manage to fly in C on miles about twice a year for the past few years.All my flying is non-business related and on paid tickets I'm in coach.

Do you mean on award travel? I almost always fly in the back with my family on vacation. We are going to Hawaii in a few weeks on 35K points each. I could have burned the 80K (or more likely 160K given front cabin 'saver' availability in the summer), but would then not have points for the next trip (and the next trip and the next trip). The kids are fine in coach, especially in E+, and the adults can suck it up for a day to save the $5K the next flight would cost if I had to pay for it.

I haven't paid for a hotel room in, hmmmm, probably a decade (not many chains in Monteverde, Costa Rica 10 years ago). I earn those much faster then airline miles, and despite using at least 2, ofter 3 or 4, weeks per year, I'm into 6 and 7 digit balances on multiple programs. I'm staying a some pretty nice places in Hawaii, and have reservations for some nice rooms in Vail over Xmas week, but still have them to burn. The periodic promos that give me additional nights for every X stays just add to the balance. Eventually the kids will kid big enough that having us in one room will be a challenge, but upgrades and suites/villas on points have been fine to date.

-Since jumping into the miles games, do you ever fly in the back of the plane anymore?

No. Not that I won't ever again but most of our flights are 4+ hours per segments and I have completely spoiled myself and my husband with business/first. My self-imposed guideline is flights under 2.5 hours will be coach.

What about if you didn't/don't have status with any airline? Is your philosophy quality or quantity?

Because of the nature of our jobs and family life, we take less frequent, longer vacations. We don't have the option of quantity.

-Same question about hotels: do you ever pay for hotel nights when you have tons of points banked?

Yes. In fact we have an upcoming trip booked where I am paying for a specific room class that I could not secure using points. The room class was so important for this particular trip, I wasn't willing to risk not getting an upgrade and wasn't willing to settle for a lower category.

Now of course, if the cash rate is too good to pass up, then yeah, pay. But do you find yourself staying in nicer hotels because you have the points to make the stays free/cheap?

Yes, we just took a spur of the moment trip to a city and stayed in a nicer hotel than I would have normally chosen because I had the points for a free stay.

(1) I usually begin my long-haul award searches for J, but will book a different cabin if necessary to get the trip I want. I'm willing to fly Y as long as I have at least a basic low-tier elite status. That gives me all of Star and Oneworld, which is for the most part all I fly. (We redeem our limited DL miles for my wife and/or her family.)

For full family trips (2 kids), we are more likely to default to Y than spend the miles for F. That's just the reality of our earn/burn habits. We'd run out of miles fast redeeming 4 F at a pop.

The main thing we try to avoid doing is flying Y without any status at all. That's when bad things can happen. Even with low-tier status, you can usually find a human being to talk to in the event of irrops.

(2) I evaluate everything available when it comes to hotels and try to get the best overall value, whether that's cash, points, or both. 2.5-week Europe trip, 7 total bookings coming up this summer, we're redeeming out of four hotel programs and booking three apartments. Considered all options for each of the 7 bookings, beginning by assessing award options against the best available VRBO/Booking.com type option.

Within the chains, our usual preference is the "standard" midrange hotel - Marriott, Hilton, Westin, etc. If my wife and I are traveling by ourselves, we'll go up a notch or two from there to get a good St. Regis, W=A, or Ritz. In a pinch we'll go down a notch as well - for example, we had to book Holiday Inn in Paris to get 3 beds per room during a peak holiday weekend. But in most cases, I'd rather book a boutique or apartment than a low-end hotel in one of my regular chains.

Within the U.S. and Canada only, we sometimes book the suites brands (Homewood, SHS, etc.). Those are pretty uncommon elsewhere anyway...

I flew F around the world for the first time this year on miles, spoiled me rotten, had another trip booked a couple weeks after that in Y to Europe...it was miserable (alright) but I said I would never fly like that again on the way back we changed to C. If the flight is a good deal 130ish RT from IAH-LAX i'll suffer in Y, I'll also pay for the hotel if we need the nights, we're off the M-F travel and onto 2 weeks every couple of months so hotel nights are becoming hard

to date, I have not "flown big" on miles. I have used miles to fly some domestic hops. Sometimes, I have used those for F awards, but I don't think domestic flights ex-DFW is "flying big". I have used some miles to buy tickets for others. But again, just domestic. The closest I have done to "big" with miles is upgrading a paid ticket from HNL back to DFW.


For me, "flying big" on miles would be like going to HKG in CX first. Or to Australia on QF. Or a RTW in F and J. One of these days, I need to do that.

Have an upcoming trip on CX F JFK to BKK. That's my first time flying "big".

I'll be saving most of my miles for more big trips. I never burn them on hotels.

For domestic travel I'm content in Y except for Transcon.

1)
I used to do a mix of work and leisure travel, but rarely need to travel for work now, so I've become nearly 100% leisure. As this is all discretionary travel, I have no intention of flying coach. While the AA EXP upgrade gravy train is still going, I'm happy to purchase lots of domestic Y fares with the idea that I will nearly always be upgraded (being a weekend flyer, there are far fewer elites to compete with). For international, I keep an eye on prices and sometimes buy discount J, other times redeem miles for J/F (once I've exhausted my SWU).

The way I look at it is a year's worth of domestic Y trips provides the status, SWUs, and RDMs that subsidize an international trip, and collectively cost about what a single longhaul J/F roundtrip would cost. If you assume you would have paid for that longhaul otherwise, then the domestic trips are "free."

I do spend time worrying about that EXP upgrade gravy train coming to an end. If it did, I imagine I would drastically cut back domestic trips to just a few a year and pay for discount F. I'd still have a pile of RDM to burn through for international J/F for a while.


2)
For hotels, I stay in the hotel I want to stay in, regardless. Paying vs. points is a decision based on the price and any promos at the time. I can't say I ever extend to more expensive place just because I have points.

While I certainly enjoy upgraded rooms and super-luxury places, I'm mostly content with middle of the road Sheraton/Westin type places. In my mind, a basic 4 star hotel is perfectly comfortable and doesn't present a pressing need to upgrade -- unlike airlines where Y is completely awful and something I'm not willing to endure.


3)"Does anyone earn points faster than they can spend them?"
For air: oh my yes. I only use miles for longhaul where they realize their best value, and I can't do that sort of trip without taking a week off work. And I can't do that more than 1-2 times a year.

For hotels: no, I earn and burn. Any weekend trip where my hotel of choice has high cash rates, I go with points. The fact that point stays count as elite-qualifying is a major factor in this.

-Since jumping into the miles games, do you ever fly in the back of the plane anymore?

Sure, if I can get a nice exit row, I have no problems with Y. I'd rather do 5 trips in Y than one trip in J if I am paying the same money.

With points, no, I will never book Y when J is an option.


What about if you didn't/don't have status with any airline? Is your philosophy quality or quantity?

Quantity. I got lots of time :)

-Same question about hotels: do you ever pay for hotel nights when you have tons of points banked?

Yes, since I am out of pocket, hotel status is useless to me, I prefer saving money and get better quality locally owned hotels than overpaying for chains just to get points

Now of course, if the cash rate is too good to pass up, then yeah, pay. But do you find yourself staying in nicer hotels because you have the points to make the stays free/cheap?

Yes, the hotel points I have from various promotions/credit cards I will use on nice hotels I'd never pay for.

First all the way using points
 

The value of airline points for me is first class award travel for long distance trips. UA points can get you first class on partner airlines which mostly have better service than UA.

With knowledge and planning the points can go a lot further than you might think. [Member's promotion of commercial blog deleted by Moderator per FT Rules.]

...

Despite having plenty of miles/ points I still pay for a lot of flights/ hotels out of my own wallet. It's usually down to an odd location and sometimes due to a lack of availability.

Long-haul miles I'll just travel in the highest available class. If that's F that's great, particularly if it's an Asian/ new airline I've not done before. short-haul I'll do Y wherever possible as I don't really get any marginal benefit and so there really is no point in deploying the miles or higher taxes and fees there.

My goal is to travel for free, or to subsidize my travel as much as possible. Miles and points help me get travel that I would not otherwise be able to afford -- but it is not luxury travel. I try to stretch my points as much as possible. That said, I many be spending as much as 50-60K points for a domestic round trip ticket because of limited award availability and last minute travel.

depending on how many miles I have stored up, I tend to use them as a buffer against flights that are very expensive due to short notice booking, or to access flights at times I want to fly but only have reward seats available.

Caveat, I am retired and usually travel alone:

I never use miles for domestic travel. As far as I am concerned, domestic is for earning miles, not burning them.

I only use miles for international travel and only in J or F. I am too old and stiff (and big) to do 10+ hours crammed into cattle class.

The only exception to the above is if I gift a flight to a younger relative or friend. They can survive coach. I did it at their age. :p

I use hotel points to get the occasional stay at a higher end property I wouldn't pay for on vacation. Or to gift a stay for someone I REALLY like.

This. I earn plenty of miles but burn them just as quickly on close in domestic short hauls. Generally booked < 3 days before travel to a secondary city, so 10,000-15,000 miles is a good deal compared to a $400+ o/w ticket. Have never redeemed miles for international premium travel but I've bought more than a few

Domestic travel - usually economy or E+, unless coast to coast, in which case I might go Business or First if the upgrade price is low or I have a lot of miles I'm not saving for something else.

International - I work hard to get an upgrade with miles, and will sometimes pay for it if I have to. A bad overnight flight ruins the vacation or business trip for me (and I've had my share of bad experiences in coach, but none in business), while the difference between staying in a good hotel and a fancy hotel does not matter as much to me. (Location of hotel is the most important thing to me.)

That's just me. For other posters, it is the opposite, and I think we all value different things.

Depends for me. I try to take several domestic trips a year with a goal of one big international trip. The domestic trips I just use Southwest points accrued from the Chase cards, which is definitely a quantity over quality scenario. When it's an international trip, I'm dipping into a different bucket of miles/points and I go quality first just because it doesn't happen often.