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-   -   A trillion equals a billion. (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/travelbuzz/1359175-trillion-equals-billion.html)

Yaatri Jun 24, 2012 11:57 am

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As for names for large powers of ten, such as the ones you mentioned, are recent and appear to be made up, like zillions, or gazillions, which are more of an idea than an exact number.
I remember my father, who was a Sanskrit scholar, telling me formal names of powers of ten well beyond the hundredth power. There was no practical use for such fantastically large numbers except for ideas expressed in mythology or accepted in cosmological view of the uniberse of Vedic culture.

Yaatri Jun 24, 2012 12:27 pm

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I found a link, unfortumately a wikipedia link that gives names for some absurdly large powers of ten.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_large_numbers#section_1

LizzyDragon84 Jun 24, 2012 2:17 pm

I have to admit that as an American I didn't realize that other countries had a different definition of billions. This has been an enlightening thread. Thanks to all for sharing about this.

Yaatri Jun 24, 2012 3:02 pm

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Originally Posted by LizzyDragon84
I have to admit that as an American I didn't realize that other countries had a different definition of billions. This has been an enlightening thread. Thanks to all for sharing about this.

I distinctly remember trying to figure out which billion was being referred to.
I am glad you enjoyed it. Yet there were suggestions such as it belonged on some "math talk forum", or that "numbers are stupid" :D This is hardly math. It's simply something we might not be aware of and might be useful in our travels.

homelyboy Jun 24, 2012 4:13 pm


Originally Posted by Yaatri (Post 18813140)
It's simply something we might not be aware of and might be useful in our travels.

Yeah, I wouldn't like to have my long-scale billion miles treated as short-scale billion miles. :)

And the difference may save you from prison when declaring cash dollars at customs. :D

Yaatri Jun 24, 2012 5:30 pm

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Originally Posted by homelyboy

Originally Posted by Yaatri (Post 18813140)
It's simply something we might not be aware of and might be useful in our travels.

Yeah, I wouldn't like to have my long-scale billion miles treated as short-scale billion miles. :)

And the difference may save you from prison when declaring cash dollars at customs. :D

All that advice for free. Can'nt beat that.

thebat Jun 24, 2012 5:56 pm


Originally Posted by RonDace (Post 18797970)
OK, you've piqued my interest. As an american I learned:
hundred 10-0
thousand 10-3
million 10-6
billion 10-9
trillion 10-12
quadrillion 10-15
quintillion 10-18
sextillion 10-21
septillion 10-24
octillion 10-27
nonillion 10-30
decillion 10-33
google -a very big number 10-100 I think.
So how far am I off here by US numbers?
What are the differences in other number systems.

10-0=1 where I live.

Himeno Jun 24, 2012 7:52 pm


Originally Posted by hyderago (Post 18801350)
I'm am also often confused by the European system of using commas instead of decimal points. Is anyone else in the same boat as me?

Yes. It's called a decimal point for a reason.

orthar Jun 25, 2012 2:41 am


Originally Posted by Himeno (Post 18814273)
Yes. It's called a decimal point for a reason.

Yes, the reason it's called that in English is that's what is used in English-speaking countries. In other languages it is called the decimal comma.
As someone mentioned above, the most convenient way to write is scientific notation, no real way to get confused over 1.35e9.

medic51vrf Jun 25, 2012 7:10 am


Originally Posted by orthar (Post 18815372)
no real way to get confused over 1.35e9.

Yeah, that's clear as... um... what the heck did you just write? :D

Yaatri Jun 25, 2012 9:23 am

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Originally Posted by orthar

Originally Posted by Himeno (Post 18814273)
Yes. It's called a decimal point for a reason.

Yes, the reason it's called that in English is that's what is used in English-speaking countries. In other languages it is called the decimal comma.
As someone mentioned above, the most convenient way to write is scientific notation, no real way to get confused over 1.35e9.

The confusion between comma and a period still remains.
The problem is use of a full stop, or a comma, instead of a mid-point, or comma to denote the decimal point.
When writing, I never use a full stop for a decimal point.

orthar Jun 25, 2012 1:20 pm


Originally Posted by Yaatri (Post 18816806)
The confusion between comma and a period still remains.
The problem is use of a full stop, or a comma, instead of a mid-point, or comma to denote the decimal point.
When writing, I never use a full stop for a decimal point.

There's no confusion because only one of the symbols is in use (as opposed to 1,000.34 or 1.000,340 where both symbols are used). While multinational, most people I'm in contact with have an engineering/scientific background so there's no issue. And more importantly, no messing around with billion/trillion/etc.

medic51vrf (if you were serious), 5e3 = 5 * (10^3). Or in the example I gave before, 1.35e9 = 1.35 * (10^9) [or 1,35 * 10^9 if you use a decimal comma]

medic51vrf Jun 25, 2012 1:25 pm


Originally Posted by orthar (Post 18818279)
medic51vrf (if you were serious), 5e3 = 5 * (10^3). Or in the example I gave before, 1.34e9 = 1.34 * (10^9) [or 1,34 * 10^9 if you use a decimal comma]

I wasn't but thanks for the explanation just in case. :)

nkedel Jun 25, 2012 2:07 pm


Originally Posted by CPRich (Post 18798199)
(and while we're at it:
- kilo, mega, giga, tera, peta, exa, zetta, yotta

Gotta be careful with those, since a lot of folks don't understand that computer guys sometimes mean the decimal units everyone else does (10**3/6/9/12... how storage is usually sold) and sometimes mean the binary approximations of those (2**10/20/30/40... how memory is usually sold.)


Originally Posted by Yaatri (Post 18804738)
It's easy to remember once you know, just as the following is easy to remember.
A billion is a million millions
A trillion is a million billions
A quadrillion is a million trillions.

But "a billion" is much shorter to write than "a thousand million," and besides, there are very few things where anyone needs to scale over 10**12, so running out of terms isn't much of an issue, while being unnecessarily wordy at the short end of the scale is.

The old alternative term for 10**9, a "milliard" is pretty much extinct, which might be a decent compromise otherwise, since it solves the wordiness problem.


Originally Posted by medic51vrf (Post 18811833)
A googol is 10 to the hundredth power.

Which is itself rather counter-intuitive, since every other common scale has its log10 evenly divisible by 3.


Originally Posted by Yaatri (Post 18816806)
The confusion between comma and a period still remains.
The problem is use of a full stop, or a comma, instead of a mid-point, or comma to denote the decimal point.
When writing, I never use a full stop for a decimal point.

Perhaps the clearest answer is to write everything out as in a check: 12,345.67 (twelve thousand three hundred fourty five and 67/100) :)

Yaatri Jun 25, 2012 2:34 pm


Originally Posted by nkedel (Post 18818635)
Gotta be careful with those, since a lot of folks don't understand that computer guys sometimes mean the decimal units everyone else does (10**3/6/9/12... how storage is usually sold) and sometimes mean the binary approximations of those (2**10/20/30/40... how memory is usually sold.)

Quite right.


Originally Posted by nkedel (Post 18818635)
But "a billion" is much shorter to write than "a thousand million," and besides, there are very few things where anyone needs to scale over 10**12, so running out of terms isn't much of an issue, while being unnecessarily wordy at the short end of the scale is.
The old alternative term for 10**9, a "milliard" is pretty much extinct, which might be a decent compromise otherwise, since it solves the wordiness problem.

You forgot hundred thousand millions.
I can't argue that a thousand million is easier to say than a billion. The main point of this thread was that nomenclature varies. Even with millard, we would still have hundred thousand millions.
While it's true that 10**12 is about the limit of the scale as things stand today. For many of Americans, even 10**6 is meaningless in everyday life. But 10**12 is in no way an absolute limit. Didn't Zimbabwe have a trillion dollar bill? Hyperinflation usually end up changing the currency, bringing down the number of zeroes necessary.


Originally Posted by nkedel (Post 18818635)
Which is itself rather counter-intuitive, since every other common scale has its log10 evenly divisible by 3.

I'd be cautious about making such a claim. There are widely used scales that groups digits by twos. Gogool is made up word, even less counter-intuitive than zillion.


Originally Posted by nkedel (Post 18818635)
Perhaps the clearest answer is to write everything out as in a check: 12,345.67 (twelve thousand three hundred fourty five and 67/100) :)

That requires unnecessary use of as many extra symbols as the number of digits in the fractional part or the number. Any symbol can be used, as long as it avoids confusion. I find both practices, using a full stop or comma to use for decimal separator to be odd. A dot, at at height half the height of characters above the baseline works fine.


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