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-   -   Alaska error with chinese visa requirements (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/travelbuzz/1324307-alaska-error-chinese-visa-requirements.html)

hyderago Mar 13, 2012 11:59 am


Originally Posted by MSPeconomist (Post 18191972)
Assuming he's a USA citizen, he can do the transit without visa at PEK for IIRC 48 hours en route to a third country, not on the way back to USA.

The 48 hours rule is only for PVG, not any other airport in the country. It is 24 hours for PEK. Further, while you may leave the airport in Shanghai, you cannot do so in Beijing.


Originally Posted by Doppy (Post 18190859)
Another option is to make use of the 24 transit visa on arrival in Beijing, which would at least allow him to make the wedding, even though he'd have to get back on a plane soon thereafter.

This option allows you to remain in the airport for 24 hours, not leave it.

PetePDX Mar 13, 2012 12:38 pm


Originally Posted by JY1024 (Post 18192516)
To help preserve your privacy, we've removed the record locator you posted.

Thanks for modding that (and some other details)! I'm friends with both rkoerner and the person in question.

I think comments above advocating objectivity are sage--and believe that it's fair to also judge whether one person's sense of "fair" is a sentiment generally accepted by reasonable and prudent people.

Lest we stir up the pot of controversy without fully understanding the context, I'm going to encourage my friend to comment here directly.

Thanks to everyone for your consideration of this matter - I sincerely appreciate it.

Doppy Mar 13, 2012 2:02 pm


Originally Posted by hyderago (Post 18192664)
This option allows you to remain in the airport for 24 hours, not leave it.

Good to know.


Originally Posted by PetePDX
I'm friends with both rkoerner and the person in question.

And as a four year FT veteran you didn't suggest to either of them that they check into the visa requirements? ;)

As for compensation, I suggest the traveler ask the airline whether it was fined for transporting him to China without the required documentation and, if so, offer to split the fine with the airline, since both parties share responsibility for the fine - the pax for attempting to travel/enter China without a visa and the airline staff for not checking. A quick search on Google finds that the fine to the airline could be anywhere from 500CNY to 12000CNY (approx. $80-$1900).

I hope he at least enjoyed Tokyo. Great city ^

lin821 Mar 13, 2012 2:29 pm


Originally Posted by Doppy (Post 18193755)

Originally Posted by PetePDX (Post 18192987)
I'm friends with both rkoerner and the person in question.

And as a four year FT veteran you didn't suggest to either of them that they check into the visa requirements? ;)

Maybe sometimes we just take it for granted and assume our friends know about the frequent flyer world as much as we do. :p


Originally Posted by Doppy (Post 18193755)
...ask the airline whether it was fined... , if so, offer to split the fine with the airline, since both parties share responsibility for the fine


Originally Posted by rkoerner82 (Post 18190506)
My boyfried just spent about 30 hours on a plane, 12 hours in detention, and lost a lot of money and miles spent on travel arrangements <snip>

Looking for recommendations on what to do to get the airline to cover last minute trip back or at least cover the costs he incurred because of this...

(emphases mine)

I don't think OP nor the boyfriend is looking to cough out more cash to the airline for this incident at this point. If this happened to me, I would just cross my finger and pray the airline to play nice to not hunt me down to cover the fine, if any.

If talking to the airline, I would play the sympathy card and hope the airline would somehow show me some nice gestures, which I am not entitled to. YMMV.

hyderago Mar 13, 2012 3:28 pm

It's actually quite surprising that this incident happened in the first place. Airlines are generally quite strict about making sure passengers have the appropriate visa before letting the passengers board the plane. This is because it is the airline, not the passenger, that is fined if the passenger is found to not be able to enter the destination.

hansyuwiwb Mar 13, 2012 3:43 pm

PRC doesn't allow visa on arrival for americans what so ever. to the end it is always the passenger's responsibility to have all travel documents in place. as PEK doesn't offer TWOV facility, he could not continue on with his journay anyways. DL did the right thing to deport him to NRT. If he wants to keep going, he has to purchase a ticket from NRT to HKG out of pocket.

hyderago Mar 13, 2012 3:50 pm


Originally Posted by hansyuwiwb (Post 18194521)
PRC doesn't allow visa on arrival for americans what so ever.

Actually, they do but just for Shanghai and just for 48 hours. I know because I availed of it last year. Here's a related FT thread:
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/china...e-transit.html

HongKonger Mar 13, 2012 4:40 pm


Originally Posted by MSPeconomist (Post 18191972)
Assuming he's a USA citizen, he can do the transit without visa at PEK for IIRC 48 hours en route to a third country, not on the way back to USA. In the past, Hong Kong was where one could get a fast visa for mainland China and I assume this is still true. Hong Kong does not require a visa, even upon arrival.

Will take 24 hours for an American, cannot get same day. Better hope he arrives in HKG today and picks up the visa tomorrow morning and meanwhile has a flight to PEK booked for tomorrow.

HongKonger Mar 13, 2012 4:43 pm


Originally Posted by rkoerner82 (Post 18190740)
If you are not suppose to trust the staff...maybe they should not tell you the visa info. I know with cpas and in real-estate you are not suppose to advise clients on areas outside your expertise.....if you do there are pretty stiff penalties.

Those people are licensed professionals who are legal agents of the client and have a fiduciary duty to the client. Airline customer service reps are not... to say the least. Always go straight to the horse's mouth (a competent PRC authority) on such matters.

Loren Pechtel Mar 13, 2012 5:32 pm


Originally Posted by hyderago (Post 18194423)
It's actually quite surprising that this incident happened in the first place. Airlines are generally quite strict about making sure passengers have the appropriate visa before letting the passengers board the plane. This is because it is the airline, not the passenger, that is fined if the passenger is found to not be able to enter the destination.

Yeah. I've had United try to deny me boarding because they saw an expired visa in my passport. I had to go show them there was also an unexpired one. They always look for the visa and they're doing that in a purely domestic terminal.

moondog Mar 13, 2012 7:31 pm


Originally Posted by hyderago (Post 18192664)
The 48 hours rule is only for PVG, not any other airport in the country. It is 24 hours for PEK. Further, while you may leave the airport in Shanghai, you cannot do so in Beijing.



This option allows you to remain in the airport for 24 hours, not leave it.

Apart from Guangzhou, you can leave the airport everywhere in China without a visa. Please report otherwise, if you have facts at your disposal.

ralfp Mar 13, 2012 11:12 pm

old the airline responsible for verifying that pax have correct documentation, etc. b
 
Edit: Sorry about the title. Weird mistake on my part.


Originally Posted by jsmith50 (Post 18192648)
Terrible situation OP but unfortunately, he has no legal recourse. Airlines are not travel agents nor do they represent the state department. Visa requirements can be tricky and may or may not apply depending on the travellers nationality and the destination. For this reason, the airline can't keep a comprehensive list of all possible scenarios to ensure that each traveller has the appropriate documentation.

For some/many countries the airline must do exactly that. Some countries (e.g. the US, AFAIK) hold the airline responsible for verifying that pax have correct documentation, etc. before boarding. AFAIK this is the reason the airlines check passports, etc. for international flights departing the US and other countries.

This is not to say that I disagree with the following:


Originally Posted by jsmith50 (Post 18192648)
As others have noted, the airline owes him nothing. They are simply a vehicle for providing transit from point A to point B. It is ultimately up to the traveller to ensure they meet all of the entry requirements for a country.

However, someone who is not a seasoned traveler could easily assume that an airline's checking for valid documentation to enter a country actually includes checks for valid documentation to said country.

rkoerner82 Mar 13, 2012 11:20 pm

Thanks for all the posts. For the most part,...i will take my friend's advise and let by boyfriend post the actual details once he recovers from jet lag.(i was not traveling with him and only have the short emails he sent between flights)..however, i do want to throw this thought out there...

i understand that legally the airline may have no responsibility to him as the traveler. However, in most businesses, if one of their employees...in a position where the are clearly representing the company...tells a customer something related to the product or service they provide that then causes the customer harm...the company usually will do something to try to make up for it...whether that is financial, an apology...or help sorting it out (and i don't know as of this point how much help was provided)

The international award booking agent is clearly in a position to understand the requirements for visas better then a casual traveler (although i completely understand that memorizing this for every county would be impossible)...and i would not be surprised by a "please check our site for the latest visa requirements response". However, i am still shocked by a blatantly incorrect answer that did not come with a caveat to double check the info provided.

IAHRyan Mar 13, 2012 11:29 pm


Originally Posted by rkoerner82 (Post 18196881)
The international award booking agent is clearly in a position to understand the requirements for visas better then a casual traveler

Sorry but no.

This information is *easily* available.

http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_p...y_requirements

http://www.china-embassy.org/eng/ywz...ap/t900567.htm

http://pss.united.com/web/en-US/apps...DA3F418FB4EFD8

<30 seconds on Google and I've never even been to China. This information isn't hard to find. While the Alaska agent shouldn't have said what they said and Delta shouldn't have allowed him on the flight, it's still the responsibility of the *passenger* to make sure they can enter their destination country.

edscholl Mar 14, 2012 12:35 am


Originally Posted by rkoerner82 (Post 18196881)
i understand that legally the airline may have no responsibility to him as the traveler. However, in most businesses, if one of their employees...in a position where the are clearly representing the company...tells a customer something related to the product or service they provide that then causes the customer harm...the company usually will do something to try to make up for it...whether that is financial, an apology...or help sorting it out (and i don't know as of this point how much help was provided)

The international award booking agent is clearly in a position to understand the requirements for visas better then a casual traveler (although i completely understand that memorizing this for every county would be impossible)...and i would not be surprised by a "please check our site for the latest visa requirements response". However, i am still shocked by a blatantly incorrect answer that did not come with a caveat to double check the info provided.

Sure. Of course there's also the possibility your bf simply misheard too! :D

But wanting a caveat to double check? Cmon now, he's goi g half way across the world and he didn'teven bother googling "visiting china" to see what to expect in general (culture, etiquette, things tat will f*ck you up, etc)? If he had, btw, 1st google suggestion is "visiting china visa" and second result is all about visas...


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