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Is a 747 That Much Faster With Headwinds Then a 767-400?

Is a 747 That Much Faster With Headwinds Then a 767-400?

Old Dec 21, 11, 4:30 pm
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jyh
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Is a 747 That Much Faster With Headwinds Then a 767-400?

I will soon be traveling from Frankfurt to Houston so I was checking the flight times today.

The LH440 made the trip in 10hrs 49 minutes
The CO 47 (767-4) schedule to make the trip in 11hrs 36 minutes.

They both departed at a reasonable time from their scheduled departure. All of the above is per FlightAware.

Could the 747 be that much faster in headwinds then a two engine 767-4?
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Old Dec 21, 11, 5:15 pm
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Boeing 767 has slower airspeed than Boeing 747

Originally Posted by jyh View Post
I will soon be traveling from Frankfurt to Houston so I was checking the flight times today.

The LH440 made the trip in 10hrs 49 minutes
The CO 47 (767-4) schedule to make the trip in 11hrs 36 minutes.

They both departed at a reasonable time from their scheduled departure. All of the above is per FlightAware.

Could the 747 be that much faster in headwinds then a two engine 767-4?
Boeing 767 has slower airspeed than Boenig 747 period. Head winds just makes the times diverge more. A 767 will be slower than a 747 in tailwinds too.
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Old Dec 21, 11, 7:09 pm
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Difference is big. The 744 cruises at M.85; the 767 cruises at M.80.
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Old Dec 22, 11, 12:39 pm
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Originally Posted by Wiirachay View Post
Difference is big. The 744 cruises at M.85; the 767 cruises at M.80.
I knew a 762 pilot would joke that a 747 would leave LAX for JFK after him and he would see it pass them. 762 has to fly lower altitude longer to burn gas on that trip too.
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Old Dec 22, 11, 7:12 pm
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Originally Posted by Yaatri View Post
Boeing 767 has slower airspeed than Boenig 747 period. Head winds just makes the times diverge more. A 767 will be slower than a 747 in tailwinds too.
Is it headwinds, specifically, or just that the absolute divergence, in general, is longer the longer the trip length?
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Old Dec 22, 11, 8:01 pm
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Originally Posted by nerd View Post
Is it headwinds, specifically, or just that the absolute divergence, in general, is longer the longer the trip length?
Both.
Time of travel depends on speed and distance. Longer distance means longer time as does slower speed.
Head winds have the effect of reducing speed with respect to ground.
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Old Dec 22, 11, 8:40 pm
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At M.85 and M.8, a trip that takes 10:00/10:38 hrs means the planes are 0:38 or 6.3% apart.

With a M.2 headwind, really big but not unheard of, the flights could take 13:05/14:10 hrs and are 1:05 and 8.3% apart.

Real differences are smaller but that's the idea.

(All theoretical, of course)

Last edited by CPRich; Dec 23, 11 at 10:58 am
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Old Dec 22, 11, 9:58 pm
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Originally Posted by CPRich View Post
At M.85 and M.8, a trip that takes 10:00/10:38 hrs means the planes are 0:38 or .25% apart.
10h38m is about 6.3% longer than 10h
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Old Dec 22, 11, 10:11 pm
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Originally Posted by Yaatri View Post
Both.
Time of travel depends on speed and distance. Longer distance means longer time as does slower speed.
Head winds have the effect of reducing speed with respect to ground.
Yes of course, obviously.

Sorry - I meant longer trip, in time, regardless of whether distance or headwinds were the factor.

You'd singled out headwinds, when it is both, hence my question.
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Old Dec 23, 11, 2:49 am
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Originally Posted by Wiirachay View Post
Difference is big. The 744 cruises at M.85; the 767 cruises at M.80.
At 35,000 feet that's about a 30-35mph difference.
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Old Dec 23, 11, 10:59 am
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Originally Posted by ahar View Post
10h38m is about 6.3% longer than 10h
Ack, I was trying to round 6.25 to 2 digits and took off the wrong end...

Corrected.
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Old Dec 23, 11, 9:34 pm
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Originally Posted by nerd View Post
Yes of course, obviously.

Sorry - I meant longer trip, in time, regardless of whether distance or headwinds were the factor.

You'd singled out headwinds, when it is both, hence my question.
Oh Ok. I get you now.
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