Problem dog owner on flight -- what should have been done?
Dec 7, 2011, 7:15 pm
#1
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Location: Austin, TX
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Problem dog owner on flight -- what should have been done?
Last week, I flew on CO, IAH to LGA. It was a very crowded flight and since I was able to go standby and get an earlier flight than my original connection, I was lucky to get a window seat in the very back, close to the lavs.
A few rows up, there was a lady with a VERY unhappy dog in a crate under the seat. The dog was crying intermittantly for some time. At last the seatbelt lights went off, and there was immediately a long line for the lavs. Dog Lady grabbed her pooch (in its carrier) and got in line. The FA told her politely that she had to leave the dog under the seat, whereupon Dog Lady snarled, "He s@#$# himself, okay? He s#$!#$ all over the carrier and am I taking him to the lav to clean up." And sure enough, you could smell it everywhere. The FA went to get some air freshener and towels, and in the meantime, Dog Lady slipped inside the lav, where she remained for the next 20 minutes.
Meanwhile, the head FA told passengers that this lav was now off limits and directed people to use the First Class lav. The FAs cleaned up the seat area and sprayed a lot of air freshener, and the head FA finally began to knock on the door and tell the lady she had to come out. He was, at all times, respectful and polite but also very firm.
Dog Lady finally came out with her pooch, and the FA directed her to the back galley where he gave her a very stern talking to --- again, very polite and professional, but instructing her that she should not have gotten the dog out of the carrier (I guess she had done it at her seat; I couldn't see) or taken him into the lav, which was now unusable for the remainder of the flight. He handed her a blanket and said, "This is what is going to happen now, and this is not open for discussion or negotiation. When we're done talking here, you're going to put this blanket over the dog carrier and it is going to remain there for the rest of the flight. I don't care how much he cries, the blanket will remain there and you will not open the carrier again for any reason. You are going to remain in your seat with the dog under the seat in its carrier for the rest of the flight. When we begin to deboard, you are going to stay in your seat until the rest of the passengers leave. At that time, two officials are going to come and talk to you about what's going to happen next."
Dog Lady was very upset and continued being rude to the FA, and he showed remarkable restraint, at one time warning her that he had the right to "escalate" this but he was choosing not to. He listened to her complaints but kept repeating his instructions to her. When I deboarded the plane, I saw that she was in her row, but NOT in her seat, and was in fact preparing to deboard ... wonder how that went over with the two CO officials who met her at the gate.
So this is a very long account, but my question is --- what should the lady have done, aside from not being rude to the FAs (who were very professional and comported themselves really well under difficult circumstances)? Had it been my dog, my instinct would have also been to clean it up and remove it as quickly as possible from disturbing other passengers. But apparently, taking it into the lav was a big no-no.
Felt sorry for the FAs, and the poor little dog, BTW.
A few rows up, there was a lady with a VERY unhappy dog in a crate under the seat. The dog was crying intermittantly for some time. At last the seatbelt lights went off, and there was immediately a long line for the lavs. Dog Lady grabbed her pooch (in its carrier) and got in line. The FA told her politely that she had to leave the dog under the seat, whereupon Dog Lady snarled, "He s@#$# himself, okay? He s#$!#$ all over the carrier and am I taking him to the lav to clean up." And sure enough, you could smell it everywhere. The FA went to get some air freshener and towels, and in the meantime, Dog Lady slipped inside the lav, where she remained for the next 20 minutes.
Meanwhile, the head FA told passengers that this lav was now off limits and directed people to use the First Class lav. The FAs cleaned up the seat area and sprayed a lot of air freshener, and the head FA finally began to knock on the door and tell the lady she had to come out. He was, at all times, respectful and polite but also very firm.
Dog Lady finally came out with her pooch, and the FA directed her to the back galley where he gave her a very stern talking to --- again, very polite and professional, but instructing her that she should not have gotten the dog out of the carrier (I guess she had done it at her seat; I couldn't see) or taken him into the lav, which was now unusable for the remainder of the flight. He handed her a blanket and said, "This is what is going to happen now, and this is not open for discussion or negotiation. When we're done talking here, you're going to put this blanket over the dog carrier and it is going to remain there for the rest of the flight. I don't care how much he cries, the blanket will remain there and you will not open the carrier again for any reason. You are going to remain in your seat with the dog under the seat in its carrier for the rest of the flight. When we begin to deboard, you are going to stay in your seat until the rest of the passengers leave. At that time, two officials are going to come and talk to you about what's going to happen next."
Dog Lady was very upset and continued being rude to the FA, and he showed remarkable restraint, at one time warning her that he had the right to "escalate" this but he was choosing not to. He listened to her complaints but kept repeating his instructions to her. When I deboarded the plane, I saw that she was in her row, but NOT in her seat, and was in fact preparing to deboard ... wonder how that went over with the two CO officials who met her at the gate.
So this is a very long account, but my question is --- what should the lady have done, aside from not being rude to the FAs (who were very professional and comported themselves really well under difficult circumstances)? Had it been my dog, my instinct would have also been to clean it up and remove it as quickly as possible from disturbing other passengers. But apparently, taking it into the lav was a big no-no.
Felt sorry for the FAs, and the poor little dog, BTW.
Dec 7, 2011, 7:59 pm
#3
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 4,735
So this is a very long account, but my question is --- what should the lady have done, aside from not being rude to the FAs (who were very professional and comported themselves really well under difficult circumstances)? Had it been my dog, my instinct would have also been to clean it up and remove it as quickly as possible from disturbing other passengers. But apparently, taking it into the lav was a big no-no.
Felt sorry for the FAs, and the poor little dog, BTW.
Felt sorry for the FAs, and the poor little dog, BTW.
As clearly there was a stink problem, perhaps she could have asked the FA's if they had some disposable gloves, which I think they do carry for emergency biohazard spills, and a trash bag. She should have had a pad under the dog, and might have been able to open the carrier while it remained under the seat, slip out the pad and get it into a trash bag without making too a public nuisance of herself. It would have meant asking her row mates to move so she could get down to the dog, but that would have been better than contaminating the lav. Of course, this plan would require being courteous to the FA's and asking their help instead of being nasty.
You can bet her name is now on the naughty list, and CO is likely to give her "no fly" status instead of coal this Christmas.
Last edited by CDTraveler; Dec 7, 2011 at 9:40 pm
Dec 7, 2011, 8:24 pm
#4
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Getting a poop covered dog out on a flight is a big no-no. I've been on a similar stinky flight, it is horrid! The only thing I think can be done is to remove the pad (having a few stacked on top makes it easier to remove just the top one) but even that can be gross for everyone concerned. Personally, if I never came across another dog in the cabin I'd be fine with that.
Dec 8, 2011, 2:14 am
#5
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 8
Well, I'm sure she could have cleaned off the dog and the inside of the carrier in a way that didn't make the bathroom unusable for the rest of the flight. Just use damp paper towels and flush them down the toilet. There shouldn't have been anything in the carrier that she didn't mind throwing out, and she should have had extras of important items, like towels and puppy pads. The soiled ones should have been sealed in two gallon-size ziploc bags, then either stuffed into the bathroom trash, or given to an FA for disposal if they wouldn't fit. Spray some Febreze (which she should have been carrying a 3-oz bottle of for just such occurrences), and voila! Problem solved.
What did she do, try to give the dog a shower in the sink or something? Was the bathroom actually trashed, or was it just because the FA knew there had been a dog in there, and there's some kind of rule about it?
Are you really supposed to let an animal wallow in its own $@&# for the entire flight? Even if the animal wasn't bothered by it, the smell would disturb other passengers, and it seems like it would be better to clean it up than let it sit for several hours. Cleaning it up in the bathroom rather than at the seat means your seatmates don't have to smell it while you're cleaning.
What did she do, try to give the dog a shower in the sink or something? Was the bathroom actually trashed, or was it just because the FA knew there had been a dog in there, and there's some kind of rule about it?
Are you really supposed to let an animal wallow in its own $@&# for the entire flight? Even if the animal wasn't bothered by it, the smell would disturb other passengers, and it seems like it would be better to clean it up than let it sit for several hours. Cleaning it up in the bathroom rather than at the seat means your seatmates don't have to smell it while you're cleaning.
Dec 8, 2011, 6:33 am
#7
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 170
If I was moving and had a dog, I would drive one of our cars loaded with stuff and the dog to the new city while my wife flew or drove the other car if feasible.
If I absolutely had to take a dog on a flight, I would make sure the dog was "empty" (not feed it the night before and day of) and also possibly get a pill from a vet to keep it calm/sedated.
Either way, being on a flight must be so stressful for a dog.
Dec 8, 2011, 7:28 am
#8
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When he was speaking to her on the flight, she asked why she was being met at the gate, and he said it was to discuss how she had handled the dog and what the plans were going to be for the rest of her itinerary ... and the dog's.
Dec 8, 2011, 7:33 am
#9
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What did she do, try to give the dog a shower in the sink or something? Was the bathroom actually trashed, or was it just because the FA knew there had been a dog in there, and there's some kind of rule about it?
Are you really supposed to let an animal wallow in its own $@&# for the entire flight? Even if the animal wasn't bothered by it, the smell would disturb other passengers, and it seems like it would be better to clean it up than let it sit for several hours. Cleaning it up in the bathroom rather than at the seat means your seatmates don't have to smell it while you're cleaning.
Are you really supposed to let an animal wallow in its own $@&# for the entire flight? Even if the animal wasn't bothered by it, the smell would disturb other passengers, and it seems like it would be better to clean it up than let it sit for several hours. Cleaning it up in the bathroom rather than at the seat means your seatmates don't have to smell it while you're cleaning.
I don't know what the rule is, and thus my question. If it had been me, I would have thought she did the logical thing (except for being rude to the FAs, which was thoughtless and stupid, as they were just trying to help and did not speak to her sternly until she had already been ugly to them). I really give kudos to the CO FAs on this flight.
Dec 8, 2011, 7:38 am
#10
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Regardless of stink or soil, the rules are that you cannot open the animal's carrier while it's on the plane, not even just a couple of inches to pet it. I do see people breaking this rule all the time but if the FA's see, they reinforce the rule. It's sad and a bit cruel to think of any animal being confined and sitting in its own mess for any amount of time but that's one of the risks you take when flying with an animal. Before I get flamed for being anti-pet, I'm not; I choose to leave mine home most times, but I couldn't avoid flying with cats twice this year, so I know it's difficult.
But the carrier must remain closed, no exceptions, because animals can be very unpredictable in a stressful situation; it is for their protection as well as for the protection of everyone on the plane, as many jurisdictions have a one-bite-rule. A dog or cat that bites just once is taken by animal control and put down. And I would rather have my dog crying and soiled than take the most remote chance that she would bite someone out of fear, then be put to sleep.
That said, the passenger should have asked for a blanket and some air freshener, and left the dog in the carrier till landing. She should not have even attempted a cleanup in flight.
I don't usually agree with sedating animals for flight as there can be some bad reactions to the sedatives, especially among cats who can occasionally end up more panicked and wound up than without a sedative. If you feel you must sedate your animal before flight, do a few "test runs" at home, in a controlled environment, to see how he/she responds to the sedatives (much like taking Ambien for the first time on the ground instead of on your transpac flight). It's absolutely essential that the animal be "empty" before flight.
But the carrier must remain closed, no exceptions, because animals can be very unpredictable in a stressful situation; it is for their protection as well as for the protection of everyone on the plane, as many jurisdictions have a one-bite-rule. A dog or cat that bites just once is taken by animal control and put down. And I would rather have my dog crying and soiled than take the most remote chance that she would bite someone out of fear, then be put to sleep.
That said, the passenger should have asked for a blanket and some air freshener, and left the dog in the carrier till landing. She should not have even attempted a cleanup in flight.
I don't usually agree with sedating animals for flight as there can be some bad reactions to the sedatives, especially among cats who can occasionally end up more panicked and wound up than without a sedative. If you feel you must sedate your animal before flight, do a few "test runs" at home, in a controlled environment, to see how he/she responds to the sedatives (much like taking Ambien for the first time on the ground instead of on your transpac flight). It's absolutely essential that the animal be "empty" before flight.
Dec 8, 2011, 7:42 am
#11
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People with way too much luggage
Kids who kick the back of your seat
Irresponsible pet owners
Some of my pet peeves -
Kids who kick the back of your seat
Irresponsible pet owners
Some of my pet peeves -
Last edited by GRALISTAIR; Dec 8, 2011 at 7:43 am Reason: spelling
Dec 8, 2011, 8:02 am
#12
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100% CO's fault. Dogs permitted in cabin ought to be in diapers. No diapers = no fly. A significant public health hazard and turning the aircraft at LGA either meant taking a delay or CO didn't sterilize the lav.
Dec 8, 2011, 8:14 am
#13
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 8
The fear that I'll be an annoyance to other passengers is what worries me the most about my upcoming flights with a cat. I can't make sure that the cat is 'empty' beforehand, because it's an intercontinental move with at least 24 hours of travel time - fasting her for that length of time, plus the night before, would be cruel and dangerous. No vet on the planet is going to say that withholding food for 36 hours is ok.
I figured I'd do a trial run with tranquilizers beforehand, and have them on hand to administer if she starts yowling, but I can't do that without opening the carrier. And if she does soil the inside of the carrier, I can't imagine just letting it sit until the plane lands. No amount of air freshener is going to get rid of the smell if the source hasn't been cleaned up.
I guess if she starts howling or makes a mess, I and everyone else on board will have to listen to it and smell it for the entire trans-Atlantic flight. I'm not sure it's fair to get upset with irresponsible pet owners when airline and FAA rules specifically prohibit them from doing anything to solve the problem. Realistically, though, I'd probably do exactly what this woman did (minus the taking it out for no reason and being rude to the FA), just out of consideration for the other passengers. The cat probably doesn't care all that much about having to smell its own waste for the duration of the flight, but I'm sure the humans on board would rather not.
I figured I'd do a trial run with tranquilizers beforehand, and have them on hand to administer if she starts yowling, but I can't do that without opening the carrier. And if she does soil the inside of the carrier, I can't imagine just letting it sit until the plane lands. No amount of air freshener is going to get rid of the smell if the source hasn't been cleaned up.
I guess if she starts howling or makes a mess, I and everyone else on board will have to listen to it and smell it for the entire trans-Atlantic flight. I'm not sure it's fair to get upset with irresponsible pet owners when airline and FAA rules specifically prohibit them from doing anything to solve the problem. Realistically, though, I'd probably do exactly what this woman did (minus the taking it out for no reason and being rude to the FA), just out of consideration for the other passengers. The cat probably doesn't care all that much about having to smell its own waste for the duration of the flight, but I'm sure the humans on board would rather not.
Dec 8, 2011, 9:38 am
#14
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You're asking what the lady herself, the dog owner, should have done? IMHO if it was not a service animal, then she should have taken the dog where it needed to go by automobile. I never subject my pets to the whims and whimsies of air travel. NEVER. Since she decided to travel by air with a non-service nervous dog, then I think she should have researched to find out that the dog must remain in the carrier. There's been enough publicity about it, and more of it is of the "snakes on the plane" variety than "cute penguins take a stroll" youtubes.
I think it is entirely predictable that a dog will defecate if you can't take it out to walk and water the bushes. This was entirely predictable in my view. Apparently, trained service animals know how to "hold it," but why would you risk it with a pet used to being spoiled and indulged?
Having screwed up to this extent, I think that weeping and being sorry would be a more effective tactic than disrespecting the flight attendant or anybody else in range of the fecal disaster. Everyone screws up sometime. There's more understanding if you regret your error.
But I'll repeat...Why would you travel by air with a pet? There is just too much that can go wrong, that can't go wrong by car, when you can pull over at gas stations and rest stops, and take your time. I've had my pet (an Amazon parrot) thoughtfully let himself out of his carrier. I'm driving, no problem, I pull over and reason with the green brat. I'm on a commercial aircraft, BIG PROBLEM. OK, for the person traveling TATL, I realize you can't drive TATL, but I also think you're going to wind up with so much paperwork, hassle, and potential for quarantine/seizure'/loss of the pet that I wouldn't risk it unless I was working with a vet experienced in people who are traveling internationally with their pets. The regulations are so onerous. Well, for birds, they are. At this time of century, it's even questionable what licenses I might need to DRIVE my parrot through Texas. (I evacuate on routes that avoid Texas.) And that's a U.S. state.
International travel for pets? Unless it's unavoidable, for example you're actually relocating, it's just a terrible idea with too much that can go wrong. Where's the risk/reward? You are potentially risking the life of the animal, to save a few bucks on a sitter?
I think it is entirely predictable that a dog will defecate if you can't take it out to walk and water the bushes. This was entirely predictable in my view. Apparently, trained service animals know how to "hold it," but why would you risk it with a pet used to being spoiled and indulged?
Having screwed up to this extent, I think that weeping and being sorry would be a more effective tactic than disrespecting the flight attendant or anybody else in range of the fecal disaster. Everyone screws up sometime. There's more understanding if you regret your error.
But I'll repeat...Why would you travel by air with a pet? There is just too much that can go wrong, that can't go wrong by car, when you can pull over at gas stations and rest stops, and take your time. I've had my pet (an Amazon parrot) thoughtfully let himself out of his carrier. I'm driving, no problem, I pull over and reason with the green brat. I'm on a commercial aircraft, BIG PROBLEM. OK, for the person traveling TATL, I realize you can't drive TATL, but I also think you're going to wind up with so much paperwork, hassle, and potential for quarantine/seizure'/loss of the pet that I wouldn't risk it unless I was working with a vet experienced in people who are traveling internationally with their pets. The regulations are so onerous. Well, for birds, they are. At this time of century, it's even questionable what licenses I might need to DRIVE my parrot through Texas. (I evacuate on routes that avoid Texas.) And that's a U.S. state.
International travel for pets? Unless it's unavoidable, for example you're actually relocating, it's just a terrible idea with too much that can go wrong. Where's the risk/reward? You are potentially risking the life of the animal, to save a few bucks on a sitter?
Last edited by peachfront; Dec 8, 2011 at 9:43 am
Dec 8, 2011, 10:27 am
#15
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Honestly I don't think anyone should be discouraged from flying with a pet, but it really is a lot of work and responsibility, and the owner really needs to make the time to do it right. If you want to take your pet because it's terrified to be in the house without you, or because your baby nephew thinks the puppy is too cute, you should do that. If the dog is a fashion accessory, then you really need to re-think why you own a pet.
That said, for the transatlantic travel, work with your vet as there are some foods that can take 24-36 hours or more to pass through a cat; by carefully controlling diet and feeding times in the days before the flight, you can minimize the chances for the cat to poop in its carrier. It's not ideal to get Fluffy off of her normal feeding routine but needs must and all, better to disrupt her for a few days than to force her to endure many hours stuffed into a carrier with her own mess.
You have to approach it as if you'll encounter long delays and not be able to access the lav in flight like if there is bad turbulence.
My cat experience was that they are most miserable in the airport and at takeoff and landing, but once up in the air they settle down; the confined under-seat space makes them feel more secure, and eventually they get bored and sleep.
FWIW my dog is way too big to go in the cabin and there's no way that I'm trusting her to baggage handlers or cargo compartments, but that's my choice. I chose to fly with cats when my Mister and I agreed to look after two cats owned by a friend, 800 miles away. Their owner was out of work, no money, couldn't take care of them, and while there were closer local options like animal rescues and such, none would give a chance at reuniting them with their owner once she was back on her feet. So we dragged them up to DC on a plane, terrified that they'd annoy someone but happily surprised at how quiet they were, kept them for 8 months, and just recently flew back to return them. Yes we could have driven but ~14 hours in a car each way would definitely have been more miserable for them and for us. And there is a lot more that can go wrong on an 800-mile drive than on a 2-hour flight.
That said, for the transatlantic travel, work with your vet as there are some foods that can take 24-36 hours or more to pass through a cat; by carefully controlling diet and feeding times in the days before the flight, you can minimize the chances for the cat to poop in its carrier. It's not ideal to get Fluffy off of her normal feeding routine but needs must and all, better to disrupt her for a few days than to force her to endure many hours stuffed into a carrier with her own mess.
You have to approach it as if you'll encounter long delays and not be able to access the lav in flight like if there is bad turbulence.
My cat experience was that they are most miserable in the airport and at takeoff and landing, but once up in the air they settle down; the confined under-seat space makes them feel more secure, and eventually they get bored and sleep.
FWIW my dog is way too big to go in the cabin and there's no way that I'm trusting her to baggage handlers or cargo compartments, but that's my choice. I chose to fly with cats when my Mister and I agreed to look after two cats owned by a friend, 800 miles away. Their owner was out of work, no money, couldn't take care of them, and while there were closer local options like animal rescues and such, none would give a chance at reuniting them with their owner once she was back on her feet. So we dragged them up to DC on a plane, terrified that they'd annoy someone but happily surprised at how quiet they were, kept them for 8 months, and just recently flew back to return them. Yes we could have driven but ~14 hours in a car each way would definitely have been more miserable for them and for us. And there is a lot more that can go wrong on an 800-mile drive than on a 2-hour flight.