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-   -   Old Timer's Airline Quiz and Discussion. (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/travelbuzz/1282073-old-timers-airline-quiz-discussion.html)

jlemon Oct 3, 2019 9:44 am


Originally Posted by WHBM (Post 31588907)
Back from Ireland, was only a one-night visit. Out in the rural middle of the country came out at 7.45 am to the car to find it covered in frost, maybe the first one of the year for the team here (unless S2A has beaten us all to it !)....

43. Pan Am 707 stopping at Seattle.

Looks like you may experience some interesting weather in the south of England this weekend as what once was Hurricane Lorenzo heads in your general direction. Lorenzo was a Category 5 hurricane at one point and was reportedly producing very large waves in the open Atlantic of up to 90 and possibly 100 feet. Lorenzo caused damage in the Azores and is now a less powerful extra-tropical storm system as it heads toward Ireland and the UK.

43. Well, this flight was being operated with a 707 by Pan Am at one point and it did stop in Seattle. However, at this particular time PA was operating the flight with another aircraft type. So please guess again, sir!

jrl767 Oct 3, 2019 10:30 am


Originally Posted by jlemon (Post 31587497)
58. ... 1985, Delta and Western were competing between two particular cities with each airline operating two daily round trip nonstop flights on the route with the same basic jet aircraft type being used by each respective air carrier on all of these flights. Name this city pair as well as the aircraft type.


58- this sounds like a route linking one hub from each airline ... Western implies Salt Lake City (SLC); Delta hadn’t yet pulled down their Dallas (DFW) operation, and both carriers operated the 727-200

Originally Posted by jlemon (Post 31587497)
60. You are back in Chicago and need to travel to Phoenix. You are in no hurry which is a good thing as you have found a very interesting flight which operates six days a week and makes no less than seven intermediate stops en route. Yep, it's time for good old fashioned a milk run! Name the airline, all seven stops in order and the aircraft.

60- geography makes this one challenging ... I don’t think Southwest was yet serving Midway (MDW), and I can’t picture any major’s route map that would have featured three stops between Chicago (ORD) and a hub as well as three more between that hub and Phoenix (PHX)

so let’s divide things up a little differently and work from the end of the flight back ... Republic’s DC-9s served PHX from Las Vegas (LAS), LAS from Reno (RNO), and RNO from Minneapolis (MSP); four stops between ORD and MSP isn’t inconceivable ... how about Milwaukee (MKE), Green Bay (GRB), La Crosse (LSE), and Rochester (RST)

YVR Cockroach Oct 3, 2019 10:41 am


24. . This airline was only serving two destinations in Alaska in early 1982. Name the air carrier and both destinations.
Not too many airports left so how about Sitka (SIT)?

WHBM Oct 3, 2019 10:46 am


Originally Posted by jlemon (Post 31589857)
So we know Western was serving Anchorage at this time but wasn't serving Fairbanks, Juneau or Ketchikan.

Here's a hint: Western was the first major air carrier to directly serve the destination in question in Alaska and the WA service to this destination in early 1982 did not last very long.

Didn't they do Kodiaq once ?


43. Well, this flight was being operated with a 707 by Pan Am at one point and it did stop in Seattle. However, at this particular time PA was operating the flight with another aircraft type
A 747 then. Did Pan Am have anything else on the Pacific side in 1976 ? They had more 747s than they knew what to do with them.


Looks like you may experience some interesting weather … extra-tropical storm system as it heads toward Ireland and the UK.
Calm before the storm here, although notably colder and I've switched the heating on, first time this year. Meanwhile over at Dublin, 24 hours after I left, they seem in a mess, cross runway in use (only done in extreme crosswinds), wind and rain from the SE at 27 kts, lots of holding out over the Irish Sea (which must be fun in these conditions). The local ATR72 flights from the west of Ireland, where conditions are always worse, they get hit from the Atlantic first, are cancelled.

jlemon Oct 3, 2019 10:47 am


Originally Posted by jrl767 (Post 31590155)
58- this sounds like a route linking one hub from each airline ... Western implies Salt Lake City (SLC); Delta hadn’t yet pulled down their Dallas (DFW) operation, and both carriers operated the 727-200
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60- geography makes this one challenging ... I don’t think Southwest was yet serving Midway (MDW), and I can’t picture any major’s route map that would have featured three stops between Chicago (ORD) and a hub as well as three more between that hub and Phoenix (PHX)

so let’s divide things up a little differently and work from the end of the flight back ... Republic’s DC-9s served PHX from Las Vegas (LAS), LAS from Reno (RNO), and RNO from Minneapolis (MSP); four stops between ORD and MSP isn’t inconceivable ... how about Milwaukee (MKE), Green Bay (GRB), La Crosse (LSE), and Rochester (RST)

58. Salt Lake City (SLC) was indeed one of the cities we are looking for here and the aircraft type in question was the B727-200. However, the other airport wasn't Dallas/Fort Worth (DFW). And to clarify, Delta and Western were the only two air carriers operating nonstop service at this time between SLC and the city in question.

60. Not a bad guess. However, the air carrier in question wasn't Republic. You also did not specify the type of DC-9 so I'll assume you are referring to the DC-9-30....and the aircraft wasn't a D9S. As for the stops, this flight did stop at Minneapolis/St. Paul.....but it did not stop at any of the other airports you have identified.

jlemon Oct 3, 2019 10:50 am


Originally Posted by YVR Cockroach (Post 31590204)
Not too many airports left so how about Sitka (SIT)?

24. No, it wasn't Sitka. And I do not believe Western ever served SIT.....

jlemon Oct 3, 2019 11:04 am


Originally Posted by WHBM (Post 31590227)
24. Didn't they do Kodiaq once ?

43. A 747 then. Did Pan Am have anything else on the Pacific side in 1976 ? They had more 747s than they knew what to do with them.

Calm before the storm here, although notably colder and I've switched the heating on, first time this year. Meanwhile over at Dublin, 24 hours after I left, they seem in a mess, cross runway in use (only done in extreme crosswinds), wind and rain from the SE at 27 kts, lots of holding out over the Irish Sea (which must be fun in these conditions).

24. Yes indeed they did with an example being Western operating Boeing 720B service nonstop to Seattle at one point.....however, WA was not serving Kodiak (ADQ) in early 1982.

43. Correct! Here's the sched....

PA 901: Portland (PDX) 6:45p - 7:25p (est.) Seattle (SEA) 9:05p - 10:20p Fairbanks (FAI)
Op: Daily
Service classes: F/Y
Meal service: Snack SEA-FAI
Equip: 747

And I'm glad I'm not sitting on board an aircraft over the Irish Sea at this moment waiting to land at DUB...... :eek:

strickerj Oct 3, 2019 12:02 pm


Originally Posted by jlemon (Post 31589857)
24. A good guess as Western did serve Ketchikan at one point.....but not in early 1982.

So we know Western was serving Anchorage at this time but wasn't serving Fairbanks, Juneau, Ketchikan, Sitka or Kodiak.

Here's a hint: Western was the first major air carrier to directly serve the destination in question in Alaska and the WA service to this destination in early 1982 did not last very long.

I can’t imagine this being any further than Anchorage (as we’ve confirmed it isn’t Fairbanks), but nearly the entire panhandle has been eliminated - as there was a spike in oil prices leading to further exploration of Alaska, how about Valdez? I could see that seeming like a good idea but ultimately not lasting long.

jrl767 Oct 3, 2019 12:07 pm

58- the only other common DL/WA destinations that I can recall from SLC were Seattle (SEA) and Portland (PDX) ... proceeding alphabetically, I'll offer PDX


Originally Posted by strickerj (Post 31590557)
I can’t imagine this being any further than Anchorage (as we’ve confirmed it isn’t Fairbanks), but nearly the entire panhandle has been eliminated - as there was a spike in oil prices leading to further exploration of Alaska, how about Valdez? I could see that seeming like a good idea but ultimately not lasting long.

24- did WA perhaps briefly go the other way chasing the oil market? Prudhoe Bay?

jlemon Oct 3, 2019 2:45 pm


Originally Posted by strickerj (Post 31590557)
I can’t imagine this being any further than Anchorage (as we’ve confirmed it isn’t Fairbanks), but nearly the entire panhandle has been eliminated - as there was a spike in oil prices leading to further exploration of Alaska, how about Valdez? I could see that seeming like a good idea but ultimately not lasting long.

24. Once upon a time Alaska Airlines operated Boeing 727-100 service between Valdez (VDZ) and Anchorage (ANC). However, given the nature of the airport in Valdez due to terrain and other factors, it was bit dicey to operate mainline jet aircraft into VDZ. So AS contracted with Era Aviation to operate Dash 7 service on a code sharing basis into Valdez instead. Era later operated the Convair 580 into VDZ followed by the Dash 8 on behalf of Alaska Airlines. Some may recall that I worked for Era for a number of years.

However, I do not believe Western ever served Valdez....so we continue to look for another destination in Alaska.

jlemon Oct 3, 2019 3:04 pm


Originally Posted by jrl767 (Post 31590577)
58- the only other common DL/WA destinations that I can recall from SLC were Seattle (SEA) and Portland (PDX) ... proceeding alphabetically, I'll offer PDX


24- did WA perhaps briefly go the other way chasing the oil market? Prudhoe Bay?

24. Correct! Western briefly operated service between Anchorage and Prudhoe Bay. Seat 2A and yours truly have been searching for a schedule reflecting this service but we have been unable to find one. Seat 2A did find a local news report out of Anchorage concerning the brief foray by WA into this remote North Slope destination located on the shores of the Arctic Ocean. I also found mention of it in an Alaska Airlines annual report with this statement: "Western also initiated service to Prudhoe Bay just days before the Company's service began....." So in a time period of just several days in December of 1981, Prudhoe Bay went from having one jet air carrier (being Wien Air Alaska with its B737-200 service) to three jet air carriers operating scheduled passenger service. Western withdrew its service into Prudhoe Bay after a short time as the traffic failed to materialize.

58. Correct! Delta and Western were competing in the Salt Lake City (SLC) - Portland (PDX) market with each air carrier operating two daily round trip flights with B727-200 equipment. These flights were the only nonstops between SLC and PDX at the time.

WHBM Oct 3, 2019 5:03 pm

2 minutes past midnight here so I'm entitled to another day's attempt at answers :)

46. Also in 1979, the film "Moonraker" starring Roger Moore as British secret agent 007 James Bond was released. In the film, James Bond can be seen being thrown out of an aircraft while it is in flight. Very fortunately, Mr. Bond survives. Identify the aircraft type and the airline that operated it in scheduled passenger service when it wasn't appearing in a 007 movie.
I remember this one at the time it came out. I think the stuntman stand-in was B J Worth, well known in that world, and the scene was admired at the time by Bond enthusiast Prince Charles, and later even more so by his son Prince Harry, who talked H M Queen into taking part in a repeat performance, with Bond again, out of a helicopter into the opening ceremony of the London 2012 Olympics (done, in part, with further stuntmen).

Charles also hankered after an Aston Martin after seeing the earlier films, and was given one on his 21st birthday in 1969, which he still has and is his favourite car. It has passed me once or twice on the M4 motorway. Just one black Range-Rover very close behind.

The aircraft ? I think it was a Radlett, UK-built original Handley Page Jetstream, the one with French Astazou engines, operated by Apollo Airways of Santa Barbara, a recent startup who doubtless, like when that first Aston appeared in the films, were a small struggling company glad of the publicity. I think there's someone here who was involved with their corporate successor.


24. Correct! Western briefly operated service between Anchorage and Prudhoe Bay. Seat 2A and yours truly have been searching for a schedule reflecting this service but we have been unable to find one.
One thing to bear in mind in all we discuss, difficult to realise in these days of instant communication, is that in times past the lead time to prepare printed material was such that it was by no means uncommon for what had been printed in advance to fail to reflect what actually happened. There's a British United timetable we have discussed previously which shows their service changing over on a specific date from Viscount to One-Eleven. In the event the One-Elevens were late being delivered, and the Viscounts (presumably) carried on. But who knows. Likewise advance publicity for services that in fact never started, and new services never reflected in print. Wikipedia has a reputation for errors in what is written, but items in the past were equally so liable.

jlemon Oct 4, 2019 11:19 am


Originally Posted by WHBM (Post 31591554)
46. I remember this one at the time it came out. I think the stuntman stand-in was B J Worth, well known in that world, and the scene was admired at the time by Bond enthusiast Prince Charles, and later even more so by his son Prince Harry, who talked H M Queen into taking part in a repeat performance, with Bond again, out of a helicopter into the opening ceremony of the London 2012 Olympics (done, in part, with further stuntmen).

Charles also hankered after an Aston Martin after seeing the earlier films, and was given one on his 21st birthday in 1969, which he still has and is his favourite car. It has passed me once or twice on the M4 motorway. Just one black Range-Rover very close behind.

The aircraft ? I think it was a Radlett, UK-built original Handley Page Jetstream, the one with French Astazou engines, operated by Apollo Airways of Santa Barbara, a recent startup who doubtless, like when that first Aston appeared in the films, were a small struggling company glad of the publicity. I think there's someone here who was involved with their corporate successor.

24. One thing to bear in mind in all we discuss, difficult to realise in these days of instant communication, is that in times past the lead time to prepare printed material was such that it was by no means uncommon for what had been printed in advance to fail to reflect what actually happened. There's a British United timetable we have discussed previously which shows their service changing over on a specific date from Viscount to One-Eleven. In the event the One-Elevens were late being delivered, and the Viscounts (presumably) carried on. But who knows. Likewise advance publicity for services that in fact never started, and new services never reflected in print. Wikipedia has a reputation for errors in what is written, but items in the past were equally so liable.

24. This quiz item was engendered by a Western Airlines route map dated January 1, 1982:

WA010182

However, it appears that Western had already suspended its very short lived service between Anchorage and Prudhoe Bay by the first of the year according to this news article (kindly provided to me by Seat 2A) which appeared in the Anchorage Times on December 16, 1981:

Western Suspends Prudhoe Route

By Deb David - Anchorage Times Writer

In another attempt to clean up its finances, Western Airlines suspended its infant Prudhoe Bay route Tuesday because the planes flew only 5 percent full; too empty to make the flights pay off. Western began the Anchorage - Prudhoe flights Dec. 2. It was competing with Alaska Airlines and Wien Air Alaska for the route, which largely serves the oil industry. Wien and Alaska Airlines both have lucrative contracts with oil companies to transport workers between the Deadhorse Airport near Prudhoe Bay and Anchorage. Alaska Airlines started its Prudhoe service Dec. 8. Wien, which may become the subject of a takeover attempt by Western, has been offering scheduled Prudhoe service since 1970. "When you are in the shape we are in, you can't afford to continue flying routes that are not making money," said Western spokesperson Linda Dozier. Western expects its fourth quarter losses to be between $50 million and $60 million.

This news article coupled with the comments in the 1981 Alaska Airlines annual report concerning WA commencing scheduled service just a few days before AS did appear to indicate that Western did indeed attempt to serve Prudhoe Bay but then exited the ANC - SCC market very quickly as WA apparently did not have any oil and gas industry contracts in place for passenger transport into Prudhoe Bay unlike Alaska Airlines and Wien Air Alaska. BTW, Alaska Airlines was already serving Prudhoe Bay on a dedicated contract basis flying two Boeing 727-100C aircraft for oil companies ARCO and SOHIO before commencing scheduled passenger service.

And I thought the statement by Ms. Dozier with Western concerning the airlines' financial condition was quite candid.

46. Correct! Here's an interesting article concerning Santa Barbara-based Apollo Airways (ID) involvement with the film "Moonraker" via one of its Handley Page Jetstream aircraft:

https://jamesbondlocations.blogspot....o-airways.html

This article appears to be factual with the comments made by former employees of this commuter air carrier being especially interesting. And as WHBM alludes, I ran the advertising campaign for Apollo Airways successor, Pacific Coast Airlines.

jlemon Oct 5, 2019 9:18 am


Originally Posted by jlemon (Post 31587489)

Please limit your response to two quiz items per day so that all may participate. And as always, we are looking for complete and specific answers here. Thanks! :cool:

44. It's still 1976 and you are now in Chicago. You need to travel to New York City for a meeting and have found an interesting three stop direct flight operated daily with jet equipment from O'Hare to La Guardia. You will depart ORD just before 4:00 pm and arrive into LGA at 6:45 pm. Identify the airline, the three stops in order and the aircraft.

48. It's 1983 and you have just been awarded a consulting contract in San Diego. Your location is Washington, DC and you have found a direct one stop flight from Dulles (IAD) to Lindbergh Field (SAN). First class is available, of course. What airline will you be flying with, where will you stop and what kind of aircraft will you be traveling on? ANSWERED

49. In 1984 this air carrier was operating a direct two stop flight on weekdays from Salt Lake City (SLC) to Reno (RNO) with jet equipment. A snack followed by breakfast was served on this flight. Identify the airline, both stops and the aircraft type. It wasn't United or America West and stops were not made at ELY, EKO, PHX or LAS. The aircraft was a B737-200.

The next nine quiz items all have a time line of 1985.....

50. You've just completed project work in Toronto and have been invited by friends to visit with them at their beachfront residence in Kapalua, Maui. You've found a direct flight from YYZ to OGG which makes two stops en route and operates daily. The flight arrives into Kahului in time for you to join your friends for dinner at the Sea House Restaurant in Napili just down the beach from their home. Name the airline you'll be flying with, both stops and the equipment.

51. This airline introduced a new front cabin service it called "Preferred Service" featuring "extra-wide, first class, two-by-two leather seating" with 37 inch seat pitch in "the entire front half of every plane". And as a introductory promotion, the air carrier in question offered its passengers "Preferred Service" at no extra charge on a first-come, first-serve basis until June 4 of 1985 when it was officially introduced. A senior executive with the airline made this statement concerning the new front cabin service: "Introducing everything you'd expect from a first class seat. Except the stupid price." Identify the airline as well as its executive who made this statement.

52. You are back in New York City and have been working out of an office located close to La Guardia Airport. Following dinner one evening, you are summoned to an urgent meeting in Los Angeles the next morning. There's a flight departing LGA just before 9:30 pm which you should be able to catch in time which will get you into LAX just before 1:30 am with one stop being made en route. Name the air carrier, the stop and the aircraft. The airline was Eastern operating a B757-200. The flight did not stop at ATL, MCI, STL, ORD, CLT, RDU or GSO.

53. Now you are in Miami and need to travel to Atlanta for a dinner meeting. Ah, here's an interesting flight which makes one stop en route and operates daily except on Saturdays. Hmmm......there's no first class available on this flight as the aircraft is in an all-coach configuration. What the heck, you book a seat anyway. Identify the airline, the stop and the equipment.

55. You're now on your way direct to San Diego from Tulsa and your flight which operates six days a week will be making two stops en route. What airline are you traveling on, what are the locations of the two stops and what is the equipment?

56. And once again, it's time to go sailing! Your sailing buddy's catamaran is moored near the Princess Juliana Airport on St. Maarten so you are off to the Caribbean from Los Angeles with two stops being made en route from LAX to SXM. Name the air carrier, both stops and the aircraft type.

57. At this time in 1985, this airline was operating flights with DC-9-30 equipment from seven different cities nonstop to LAX. Identify the air carrier and all seven cities.

59. This airline was operating direct one stop service from Lihue (LIH) on Kauai to Los Angeles (LAX) on a daily basis at this time. Identify the air carrier, the stop and the equipment. United operating a Super DC-8-71 LIH - ___ - LAX. Still looking for the stop which wasn't KOA.

60. You are back in Chicago and need to travel to Phoenix. You are in no hurry which is a good thing as you have found a very interesting flight which operates six days a week and makes no less than seven intermediate stops en route. Yep, it's time for good old fashioned a milk run! Name the airline, all seven stops in order and the aircraft. ANSWERED

Rolling right along here......

jrl767 Oct 5, 2019 10:08 am

60- how about a southerly extension of the classic and oft-discussed Northwest milk run across the upper Great Plains, on a 727-251:

ORD
  1. MSP
  2. Billings (BIL)
  3. Bozeman (BZN)
  4. Missoula (MSO)
  5. Spokane (GEG)
  6. Seattle (SEA)
  7. San Francisco (SFO)
PHX


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