Shall we expand to international airlines? There are lots of questions to be asked there and perhaps an even bigger audience...

Re: 747s
 

>> 6. Everyone knows AA, NW, PA, UA & TW flew the 747. Name five other non-cargo US airlines that also did <<


Great question. Let's see...


Eastern, Delta, Braniff, America West, Continental, PeoplExpress.

Also Tower Air, World Airways, Transamerica/Trans International, National

Plus I'm sure I'm forgetting one or two.


PS

Good job, GateHold! I'll add to that the Hawaii Express.

1.) What now defunct U.S. airline was once presided over by a World War I flying ace and later by an astronaut?

2.) What two U.S. airlines flew both the Convair 880 and the 990?

3.) "City of Lehigh Valley" would have been a 737-200 belonging to what airline?

4.) The original "Seahawk One" was a 727-200 belonging to what airline?

5.) "Spirit of Gamma" was the first 727-200 delivered to this airline.

I'll try the first two:

5. Air Atlanta flew to JFK and Atlanta with 727s.

7. Delta with the 727.

3. "City of Lehigh Valley" was operated by United.

4. "Seahawk One" was operated by Alaska Airlines.

5. "Spirit of Gamma" was operated by Hughes Airwest.

OK, quick start for the US audience then. Which UK airlines have operated scheduled flights to the USA ?

British carriers (not counting charters...) operating to the colonies

B.O.A.C.
British Airways
BMI
Laker
Virgin Atlantic
There was an airline that operated between Scotland and New York with 747s a few years ago - Highland Airways, Highland Express?
I'm probably missing one or two more, but that's a start

BTW, tonyw and 702ML, you're correct on all counts!

Good start S2A. And it was Highland Express, started by Richard Branson's Virgin Atlantic co-founder after they fell out. 747 should be singular rather than plural for them, for they only ever had one, sometimes none, and it was apparently the most unreliable 747 ever, a significant part in the carrier's quick downfall, and was passed from pillar to post after American had managed to get shot of it some years beforehand. Eventually ended up with Virgin Atlantic, where it was renowned for needing the highest number of engineering hours of the whole fleet for the rest of its life.

We can add to your list :

Imperial Airways, pre-WW2, only operated from Bermuda to various US East Coast points, but a UK airline of course.

Eagle (later British Eagle), who did likewise in the early 1960s, along with several attempts at true transatlantic scheduled services.

British Caledonian

The charter carriers are a whole different story, you can still see them at Orlando Sanford, but back in the 1970s you would see a quite different set at JFK and various other points with first-generation secondhand 707s - Caledonian, Laker, Lloyd, Donaldson, British Midland.

It's always a treat to read detail like this, WHBM. Thank you!
How could I forget B-Cal?! They had certainly one of the prettier liveries ever to grace a VC10, though unfortunately that airplane had been retired by the time B-Cal commenced its North American services. And great service it was, too. I have a couple of their First Class menus from LGW-IAH/LAX flights.

Here are a few more questions to add to the mix:

1. Name six non-European airlines that flew the Comet (There are more than 6)
2. Name four African airlines that flew the VC-10 (There are more than 4)
3. What airline’s Convair 990s were known as “Coronados”
4. Name four airlines that operated the Rolls Royce Conway powered version of the 707 (There are more than 4)
5. What airline’s First Class was branded “Senator Service”?
6. What European airline's First Class service was branded "Royal Class"?
7. What year did the French built Caravelle enter service?
8. What British airline's livery was almost (if not, truly was) an exact copy of U.S. based Continental Airlines pre-1968 livery?

Does the U.S. count as a colony?

How about Eos and Max?

Highland Express a few years ago??? It was in the late 1980's!

I want to know the answer to 8.

1. I know Eastern offered to buy 35 planes for $100M and with a specific delivery date which would have filled the orderbooks precluding others from getting timely delivery. Eastern did not finalize the order.

2. Air Malawi is one. Ghana Airways and Nigeria Airways flew it, too. So did EAAC (East Africa Airways). What are others?

Afraid I got them all.

Now then, WHY was that airline's livery the same as Continental's ? And where did I see that livery, here in London, in public service just a few (genuinely) years ago ?

I know, I know - the eighties were 30 years ago. I logged my 1000th flight aboard a Western DC-10 in 1981 and it still seems like yesterday.

Good call on Eos & MaxJet, CA! There was also an airline called SilverJet operating an ex-LAN Chile 767-200 out of one of the smaller suburban airports outside of London. As I recall, none of these airlines lasted any longer than a year or two at most...

Were that we could have this discussion whilst sitting around a nice pub with pints of good cold beer. Someday, perhaps...

I'm not surprised. These aren't too tough for serious followers of commercial aviation. I know alot of the basic answers from having collected thousands of airline postcards and brochures and menus since the 1970s. Alot of the history however I don't know, although I'm sure I speak for many when I say we all appreciate hearing about it.

To which you can add Open Skies Ltd. Although now registered in France, it started off schedules to the USA from Europe in 2008 as a UK licenced operator, although they never operated from the UK.

Sorry if I'm just boringly throwing all the oddballs in here !

3) Convair 990--Coronado--Swissair and Spantax?
5) Senator Service--Lufthansa
4) RR powered 707s--BA,AI,RG, and LH

Right on, #57. Swissair's 990s were known as "Coronados" though I'm not aware of Spantax using that name.

Another RR powered 707 operator was El Al.

For the Rolls-Royce 707s, another initial purchaser was British Eagle, who took one aircraft new and operated it from Bermuda (VR-BBW) for a short while. In addition, BEA bult up a substantial fleet when BOAC began to dispose of them; this was before the BA merger, when they came back into the combined airline.

The Convair 990 was certainly known by Spantax as the Coronado, and I suspect by other operators as well, because the name was taken from Coronado Island in San Diego CA, next to where the aircraft was built. They operated some of the longest European routes there are, hence Spantax going for a (cheap at the time) jet of such range, holiday charter flights from the Canary Islands up to Scandinavia (up to 6 hours duration), and were a regular sight all across northern Europe.

I know some of you already know this but for others that don't, I'm answering this one:

1959, with SAS, then Air France.

This was Channel Airways, a somewhat strange shoestring operation based at Southend, a backwoods airfield about 35 miles east of London. They were a decidedly rickety operation from 1947 through to their final demise, which was exactly 40 years ago this week, February 1972. They got into all sorts of different market segments, none of which ever seemed to work for them.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Channel_Airways

Channel bought a batch of Vickers Viscounts from Continental in the USA. Squadron Leader Jack Jones, who owned the airline, liked the Continental livery they came with, but more in his mind was probably saving the cost of repainting. So they were put into service with just a change of name, even using the same font that Continental did (contrary to what Wikipedia says, these ex-CO aircraft were of course the first in the CO livery the airline had).

Later they made some extraordinarily optimistic purchases of new jet aircraft, many of which they had to cancel before delivery, to use on holiday charter flights, which the British call "going to the Continent", so "Continental Golden Jet" suited them perfectly, although these aircraft had no connection with CO in the USA. I wonder if they ever knew Channel had done this. They even had the golden circled Eagle from Continental's old logo on the nose. The Tridents (they were the only independent airline ever to buy these) were particularly bizarre. They ordered five, cancelled three before delivery, and mostly just flew one, the second, virtually new, being steadily robbed for spares at Stansted airport. The "good" Trident was kept going with charter flights out of West Berlin down to the Mediterranean. In typical Channel fashion the Tridents were too large for the runway length at their Southend base but this was only addressed after they arrived, when the maintenance team had to do the hour's drive each way to Stansted (also a complete backwoods place then, but with a long ex-WW2 runway) when they came in there.

I did say I saw the old Continental livery in public service in recent times. Well, because Channel operated from such out-of-the-way places they needed to charter coaches from London, departing from "Kings Cross Coach Station" (which was a kerbside point in a back street next to the train station), and eventually bought up their main contractor and badged it as Channel Coachways, with a bus livery the same as the aircraft, white, gold and black. When the airline went bankrupt the bus operation was sold off separately, and kept going with a typical assortment of schoolkids to the zoo, theatre groups, replacing the London to Southend commuter train if it was out of action, etc. And on they went from 1972, keeping the livery, while in best Channel tradition their vehicles over the years always seemed secondhand and down-at-heel. It was only a few years ago, having finally changed their livery, that the last of the old buses disappeared from the roads of East London.

I've looked on the web for pictures, was hoping for colour but can only find these here in b/w. Old Continental Airlines enthusiasts will instantly recognise the slanting font and the Eagle logo, and on the bus side (not visible) was a huge Eagle logo; I used to wonder when they passed me on the road if they were still using up the spare stock of old jet nose decals.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/sludgeulper/3099083065/

Thanks for the background, WHBM. When you hear the stories behind some airline operations, it's a wonder the airline ever managed to get off the ground at all. Here is a color picture of a Channel Airways Trident...

http://images60.fotki.com/v370/photo...TRIDENT-vi.jpg
Channel Airways Continental Golden Jet

That's the ticket, Tony! And a fine looking airliner she was, too!


http://images16.fotki.com/v387/photo...RAVELLE-vi.jpg
Ethiopian Air Lines Caravelle

This is a new approach for this question, but let's give it a try.
HOWEVER, please do not copy all the pictures as part of your answer. Just refer to them as #1, #3, etc.

So, which of the following aircraft pictured are real as opposed to unreal?


http://images16.fotki.com/v378/photo...DADC850-vi.jpg
Number 1: Real or Unreal?


http://images55.fotki.com/v648/photo...SBAC111-vi.jpg
Number 2: Real or Unreal?


http://images16.fotki.com/v377/photo...SKA720B-vi.jpg
Number 3: Real or Unreal?


http://images55.fotki.com/v585/photo...1238663-vi.jpg
Number 4: Real or Unreal?


http://images61.fotki.com/v384/photo...N737900-vi.jpg
Number 5: Real or Unreal?


http://images51.fotki.com/v103/photo...A747401-vi.jpg
Number 6: Real or Unreal?

Again, please do not copy all the pictures as part of your answer. Just refer to them as #1, #3, etc.

So, which of the following aircraft pictured are real as opposed to unreal?


http://images44.fotki.com/v220/photo...A321200-vi.jpg
Number 7: Real or Unreal?


http://images61.fotki.com/v219/photo...CA747SP-vi.jpg
Number 8: Real or Unreal?


http://images60.fotki.com/v367/photo...TA72795-vi.jpg
Number 9: Real or Unreal?


http://images60.fotki.com/v661/photo...A757300-vi.jpg
Number 10: Real or Unreal?


http://images44.fotki.com/v301/photo...7474002-vi.jpg
Number 11: Real or Unreal?


http://images59.fotki.com/v791/photo...ASDC905-vi.jpg
Number 12: Real or Unreal?[/QUOTE]

Ok, I'm just guessing at this so I stand to be corrected:

#1: Air Florida DC-8 50, unreal (they did not fly DC-8s)
#2: Air Illinois BAC One Eleven, real
#3: Alaska Airlines Boeing 720B, real
#4: Allegheny Airlines Boeing 727-200, real
#5: American Airlines Boeing 737-900, unreal (I think AA operates the 800 series, they don't have the 900 series yet...)
#6: Delta Air Lines Boeing 747-400, unreal (DL had 747 earlier versions and phase them out in the early to mid-1970s; the 400 series started service in 1989, I think with UA; DL never had 747-400s in their old 1970s livery but actually operates 747-400s today in their new livery, post NW merger and former NW planes)

Unreal. Although Air Florida did run DC8s, they were leased from Miami charter carrier Rich, and didn't carry the full AF livery or the AF tail number suffix. Plus they were DC8-62s that were leased.

Supplementary question. Which US DC8 operator DID have their aircraft with an AF suffix tail number.

Real. Leased from US Air in 1982. Air Illinois didn't keep up the payments, so in 1984 the US Air repo man turned up one night ....

Real. That's one of the Alaska Boeing 720s (not 720B; different engines) that had been through several users along the way.

Real. One of several 727-200s that Allegheny bought shortly before they changed their name.

Fake. American have never had a series -900 737. Nor have many other carriers either - a real poor seller.

Fake. That's the old Delta colours on a 747-400, which type they only got recently with the merger.

Another supplementary; we did used to get 747s in this colour scheme at London Heathrow, long before Delta had authority to come to Europe. How did that happen ?

Number 8-- Unreal, as Avianca did not operate the SP.

Interchange with Panam allowed Dellta aircraft and crews to operate through PA service ATL-LHR, kind of an early "codeshare". Started with DL DC-8s in 1963 (IIRC).

There was a similar arrangement between BA/BOAC and Teal/Air NZ whereby NZ DC-10s flew AKL-LAX-LHR.

Excellent job, all of youse. ^^ The one caveat would be regarding the timing on that Allegheny 727-200. It's one of two that Allegheny bought in 1970. It was quickly determined that the -200 was too large for AL's needs at the time and in 1971 the aircraft were traded to BN in exchange for BAC-111s. The name change to US Air didn't come until 1979.A

So that leaves us with numbers 7,9,10 & 12. And what the heck, here's a couple more:


http://images16.fotki.com/v377/photo...N767200-vi.jpg
Number 13: Real or Unreal?


http://images61.fotki.com/v218/photo...ELECTRA-vi.jpg
Number 14: Real or Unreal?

Deleted due to accidental dupe post

Actually somewhat different. The BA/Air NZ arrangement was a straight hire of an aircraft with the capability to do London to LAX nonstop, which BA (believe it or not) did not have until the 747-200Bs came into the fleet in 1978. Yes, Pan Am and TWA did the route with 747-100s, but BA's margins for reserves on this type were somewhat higher. The round trip London to LAX was about 25 hours, so it just didn't quite fit a single aircraft, however Air NZ had hitherto been laying over for about 8 hours or more at LAX, so the eastbound aircraft left there for London shortly before the westbound one arrived. BA were actually operating a through flight to Auckland, New Zealand at the time, a 747, it went "the other way", through Singapore and Australia.

I was a regular on that flight LHR-LAX at the time it was operating (1976 to 1979); there used to be questions from passengers at the aircraft steps in London when they saw an unexpected name on the aircraft. Full BA crew, they trained up a small group of their pilots on the DC-10. They went for their simulator training and recurrent checks over to KLM in Amsterdam. It wasn't really marketed as a through flight, always just shown a a prominent connection between two airlines.

Even the performance of the DC-10 was somewhat marginal; if it looked as if the westbound (always the tough direction) didn't fit in, firstly they would dump some freight, then would do a fuel stop, typically at Glasgow Prestwick, from where they were about an hour's flying closer to LAX.

Meanwhile the Pan Am (in particular) westbound 747-100 departures on summer afternoons with full fuel for LAX used to worry the Heathrow tower more than a little as they evidently had poor climb performance. Once it was gone there were more relaxed comments, about eastbound departures being "via the Piccadilly Line", or it being a "Hedge Clipper". :)

Please post answers to picture posts
 

Wikipedia is an evil website. There are some areas where nasty amateur and juvenile webmasters (called administrators) abuse people. Those administrators vote each other to get the job and are anonymous. I once corrected an error and they changed back to the error and threatened to ban me. Another person complained that an administrator looked into IP records and hacked into their computer. Wikipedia is a good concept but is evil.

As far as the picture posts, please post the correct answer in one post eventually. Great questions!

10: TWA Boeing 757. Unreal.

TWA had some 757's but not that one.

#12

SAS DC-9
real
This is a DC-9-20. They were only built for SAS. Only about 10 of them were built (my guess is no more than 12). The -20 had big wings, short fuselage.

Correct!

Correct!

Correct on all counts! And Reeve Aleutian with B727 aircraft.

I flew on MarkAir B737-200 Combis from between ANC and Kodiak, Barrow and Prudhoe Bay. I also flew on AS B737-200 Combis between ANC and Cordova.

You might want to take a closer look at that fuselage, Mr. C ... :)