Old Timer's Airline Quiz and Discussion.
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Seat 2A: I'm not sure RMA ever even operated outside of Colorado......
Indeed, Rocky Mountain Airways initially operated only in the state of Colorado with the DHC-6 Twin Otter.
The DHC-7 Dash 7 was then added to the fleet and by 1985 RMA had spread its wings to the north and to the east as well. Here's their 1985 route map.....
https://www.departedflights.com/JC121385.html
I almost got to fly on board a Rocky Mountain Dash 7 out of the Avon STOLport (WHR) serving the Vail/Beaver Creek area (this very small airfield was quite a bit closer to Vail than the Eagle County Regional Airport (EGE) located to the west on Interstate 70); however, the weather intervened and a friend drove me to Stapleton instead.
And speaking of the weather (you knew that was coming, didn't you?), currently 75 degrees F here in LFT with a thunderstorm rolling in ahead of a strong cold front that is now descending upon us from Canada. Should be in the upper 30's F by tonight and we may awake to freezing weather on Fat Tuesday. As miniliq mentioned above, looks like Mardi Gras day will be downright cold here in south Louisiana but with some sunshine as well.
Indeed, Rocky Mountain Airways initially operated only in the state of Colorado with the DHC-6 Twin Otter.
The DHC-7 Dash 7 was then added to the fleet and by 1985 RMA had spread its wings to the north and to the east as well. Here's their 1985 route map.....
https://www.departedflights.com/JC121385.html
I almost got to fly on board a Rocky Mountain Dash 7 out of the Avon STOLport (WHR) serving the Vail/Beaver Creek area (this very small airfield was quite a bit closer to Vail than the Eagle County Regional Airport (EGE) located to the west on Interstate 70); however, the weather intervened and a friend drove me to Stapleton instead.
And speaking of the weather (you knew that was coming, didn't you?), currently 75 degrees F here in LFT with a thunderstorm rolling in ahead of a strong cold front that is now descending upon us from Canada. Should be in the upper 30's F by tonight and we may awake to freezing weather on Fat Tuesday. As miniliq mentioned above, looks like Mardi Gras day will be downright cold here in south Louisiana but with some sunshine as well.
Last edited by jlemon; Mar 3, 2019 at 1:53 pm
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The following quiz item has a time line of the spring of 1987....
21. It’s a great life working as a bartender for the rich and famous in Vail, Colorado. Now that the season is over, it’s time to relocate to Las Vegas and your summer job bartending at the MGM Grand. Thankfully the transition is made easier this year with the addition of a new once weekly 1-stop direct flight between Vail’s Eagle County Regional Airport and Las Vegas. Identify the airline, aircraft and enroute stop if you please.
I'm very interested in the answer to this one as I previously did not think Eagle County Regional received jet service until the early 1990's. Before jet flights arrived at EGE, I believe the airport was only served by Rocky Mountain Airways, first with the Twin Otter and later with the Dash 7.
Last edited by jlemon; Mar 3, 2019 at 12:47 pm Reason: changed my answer
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21. Yet another wild guess (and yes, I have actually heard about and also flown on this airline): Delta operating a B727-200 EGE - SLC - LAS.
I'm very interested in the answer to this one as I previously did not think Eagle County Regional received jet service until the early 1990's. Before jet flights arrived at EGE, I believe the airport was only served by Rocky Mountain Airways, first with the Twin Otter and later with the Dash 7.
I'm very interested in the answer to this one as I previously did not think Eagle County Regional received jet service until the early 1990's. Before jet flights arrived at EGE, I believe the airport was only served by Rocky Mountain Airways, first with the Twin Otter and later with the Dash 7.
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And it looks like I missed a subsequent clue here as the aircraft in question was operated in a single class all Y config - which just might have been a Western B737-200 that may have been operated by Delta at the time of this quiz question. Or maybe it was still being flown by WA.
So I went ahead and "refined" my answer above and I'm definitely looking forward to the final answer!
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My first commercial flight that I'm fairly certain of was aboard a Continental 707 (or was it a 720B? At my young age they both looked the same) between Los Angeles and Denver in August of 1962.
There is some debate with one of my sisters who's confident we flew aboard a Caravelle from Santa Barbara to Los Angeles just prior to the flight mentioned above. I have memories of climbing up the back stairs (how cool was that at the time for a young flyer like me!) and of those triangular windows but of course we all know that the westernmost city with scheduled CVL flights was Omaha. Or was it Lincoln? In any event, it's been surmised that United performed maintenance checks on its Caravelles at SFO and that one could very well have been substituted for a DC-6 on the SBA-LAX route. More likely however is that I flew one during one of our forays back east to visit kinfolk
There is some debate with one of my sisters who's confident we flew aboard a Caravelle from Santa Barbara to Los Angeles just prior to the flight mentioned above. I have memories of climbing up the back stairs (how cool was that at the time for a young flyer like me!) and of those triangular windows but of course we all know that the westernmost city with scheduled CVL flights was Omaha. Or was it Lincoln? In any event, it's been surmised that United performed maintenance checks on its Caravelles at SFO and that one could very well have been substituted for a DC-6 on the SBA-LAX route. More likely however is that I flew one during one of our forays back east to visit kinfolk
Also curious to know what year you flew out of Santa Barbara. Jet service arrived into SBA in the summer of 1966 when Pacific Air Lines introduced B727-100 flights (aircraft were in an all-coach configuration) with two round trip flights a day operating SFO-MRY-SBA-LAX. At this same time, United was operating all of its flights into Santa Barbara with Convair 340 equipment. By early 1968, Pacific was back to operating all of its SBA service with the Fairchild F-27.....and then by the summer of that same year, Air West was formed by the three way merger of Pacific, Bonanza and West Coast with RW operating nonstop 727 flights between SBA and SFO with the former Pacific aircraft as well as F-27 service between SBA and LAX. And by 1969, United was operating all of its flights into Santa Barbara with B727-100 and B737-200 equipment, including an interesting flight with a 727 operating a southbound routing of RNO-OAK-SFO-MRY-SBA-LAX.
So did United ever operate Caravelle service into Santa Barbara with the French twin jet being substituted for piston powered equipment? It's an intriguing possibility what with UA indeed maintaining its Caravelle aircraft at its SFO maintenance base as discussed by WHBM in the past.
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So did United ever operate Caravelle service into Santa Barbara with the French twin jet being substituted for piston powered equipment? It's an intriguing possibility what with UA indeed maintaining its Caravelle aircraft at its SFO maintenance base as discussed by WHBM in the past.
They were also apparently sent to Denver, west of their normal territory, for training flights; Denver was the principal United training base (bit of a strange choice due to its elevation), and in those times there was far more live training on aircraft, as opposed to simulators. So wouldn't be surprising if they did the "second section" bit going there either.
https://www.airliners.net/photo/Unit...le-VI-R/403242
That flight into Santa Barbara wasn't a charter, by chance ?
Last edited by WHBM; Mar 3, 2019 at 4:09 pm
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Can't avoid getting back to the old Caravelle from time to time !
They were also apparently sent to Denver, west of their normal territory, for training flights; Denver was the principal United training base (bit of a strange choice due to its elevation), and in those times there was far more live training on aircraft, as opposed to simulators. So wouldn't be surprising if they did the "second section" bit going there either.
https://www.airliners.net/photo/Unit...le-VI-R/403242
They were also apparently sent to Denver, west of their normal territory, for training flights; Denver was the principal United training base (bit of a strange choice due to its elevation), and in those times there was far more live training on aircraft, as opposed to simulators. So wouldn't be surprising if they did the "second section" bit going there either.
https://www.airliners.net/photo/Unit...le-VI-R/403242
https://www.airliners.net/photo/Unit...A5LkQKbWR7aFX1
I believe that's a second UA Caravelle parked behind N1019U.....
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Perhaps we've discussed this before, but I have to compete with you jlemon, because it's the 60th anniversary of my first commercial flight aboard a Lockheed L1049 Super Constellation operated by Trans-Canada Airlines from Edmonton (YEG) to Toronto (YYZ) for a job interview in 1958.
And now we've probably started a contest -- no youngsters allowed.
But les bon temps continue to roulé! I tried (unsuccessfully) to find a bargain reward flight tonight for a quick revisit to Carnival in Rio (where it will be a darn sight warmer than MSY on Fat Tuesday). We'll watch TV instead. Still planning to visit Rio in April.
And now we've probably started a contest -- no youngsters allowed.
But les bon temps continue to roulé! I tried (unsuccessfully) to find a bargain reward flight tonight for a quick revisit to Carnival in Rio (where it will be a darn sight warmer than MSY on Fat Tuesday). We'll watch TV instead. Still planning to visit Rio in April.
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And you are now in the leading position, sir!
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my other firsts (turboprop and jet, respectively) were on Western Airlines in the spring of 1961 ... LAX-SFO on an Electra, returning on a 720B
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I cannot come close to matching people who flew aboard a Super Constellation or other planes.
Among propeller planes, I can only claim to be aboard a Convair 580 as well as some modern day ones, like the Saab 340 and ATR 42 and 72, as well as some recent ones, like the Shorts 360, Metro III, Jetstream 31 and Fokker F27.
Among the older jets, I can only claim to be aboard an old Boeing 707 and BAC One Eleven. Never a Caravelle, Comet, VC10, Mercure, Trident, Convair 880 or 990.
I have seen quite a few airliner jets in museums or airports and only haven't seen a Tu104, IL-96, and Mercure.
Among propeller planes, I can only claim to be aboard a Convair 580 as well as some modern day ones, like the Saab 340 and ATR 42 and 72, as well as some recent ones, like the Shorts 360, Metro III, Jetstream 31 and Fokker F27.
Among the older jets, I can only claim to be aboard an old Boeing 707 and BAC One Eleven. Never a Caravelle, Comet, VC10, Mercure, Trident, Convair 880 or 990.
I have seen quite a few airliner jets in museums or airports and only haven't seen a Tu104, IL-96, and Mercure.
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My first flight wasn't until 1982 as parents had no reason to travel by air when I was young.
Missed a few nice aircraft for sure but at least I have full details of all flights to compensate.
May 1982, British Airtours 737-200, London Gatwick > Faro
I should have been on an Air Europe 737-200 as I was travelling with a staff member on a standby ticket.
Their flight was full so we moved over to the next check in desk and got the British Airtours flight to the same destination. Second flight was on Air Europe.
First propliner:
Dec 1982, Provincetown-Boston Airlines Martin 404, Key West > Miami.
We'd driven down to EYW and someone suggested I should fly back to MIA as it would probably be a DC-3.
Great idea! Bought the ticket and ended up on a Martin 404 - turned out to be a good move as I never got another chance for the 404. One way fare was $42 bought just before departure.
KT
Missed a few nice aircraft for sure but at least I have full details of all flights to compensate.
May 1982, British Airtours 737-200, London Gatwick > Faro
I should have been on an Air Europe 737-200 as I was travelling with a staff member on a standby ticket.
Their flight was full so we moved over to the next check in desk and got the British Airtours flight to the same destination. Second flight was on Air Europe.
First propliner:
Dec 1982, Provincetown-Boston Airlines Martin 404, Key West > Miami.
We'd driven down to EYW and someone suggested I should fly back to MIA as it would probably be a DC-3.
Great idea! Bought the ticket and ended up on a Martin 404 - turned out to be a good move as I never got another chance for the 404. One way fare was $42 bought just before departure.
KT
Last edited by KT550; Mar 4, 2019 at 6:22 am
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My dad used to think that taking me to airports to look at planes would satiate my interest in flying as "going in aeroplanes is not something we're likely to ever do, that's for rich people". We lived on the flightpath for Manchester airport so I could tell you what the aircraft type was from the sound it made, it also accounts for the near permanent crick in my neck. That was in the early 1960s. My first flight was to Paris in a BAC 1-11 in the early 1980s when I finally had the money to pay for a flight. so in comparison to many on here I'm still in short trousers flying wise.
It's 15 years almost to the day that I took my dad to Japan in his one and only business class return. His response afterwards? What a waste of money
It's 15 years almost to the day that I took my dad to Japan in his one and only business class return. His response afterwards? What a waste of money
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I almost got to fly on board a Rocky Mountain Dash 7 out of the Avon STOLport (WHR) serving the Vail/Beaver Creek area (this very small airfield was quite a bit closer to Vail than the Eagle County Regional Airport (EGE) located to the west on Interstate 70); however, the weather intervened and a friend drove me to Stapleton instead.
And speaking of the weather (you knew that was coming, didn't you?), currently 75 degrees F here in LFT with a thunderstorm rolling in ahead of a strong cold front that is now descending upon us from Canada. Should be in the upper 30's F by tonight and we may awake to freezing weather on Fat Tuesday. As miniliq mentioned above, looks like Mardi Gras day will be downright cold here in south Louisiana but with some sunshine as well.
And speaking of the weather (you knew that was coming, didn't you?), currently 75 degrees F here in LFT with a thunderstorm rolling in ahead of a strong cold front that is now descending upon us from Canada. Should be in the upper 30's F by tonight and we may awake to freezing weather on Fat Tuesday. As miniliq mentioned above, looks like Mardi Gras day will be downright cold here in south Louisiana but with some sunshine as well.
Well I could deal with a delay - even one of 6+ hours. Adding insult to injury however, the train would only go as far as Reno, Nevada where we would then be bussed across the imposing Sierra Nevada Mountains. Think Donner Pass, lots of snow, cannibalism... Truth be known though, the snowfall amounts in the Sierras this winter have been prodigious. Check this out:
https://www.sacbee.com/news/weather-...226878214.html
Checking back later in the morning, the news got worse. Amtrak wouldn't even bus us beyond Reno due to the snowfall amounts on Interstate 80. Beyond Reno, we were on our own. I looked into flying from Reno to either Sacramento or one of the Bay Area airports, because I had a connection booked aboard the Coast Starlight up to Portland. On short notice I was looking at one way airfares in excess of $280.00. Sigh... Not gonna happen.
And so it was that I canceled my rail journey, cashed in some miles from my Alaska Airlines Mileage Plan account and booked myself a one stop connection from Denver back to Fairbanks. I still managed a train ride - the RTD express train from Denver's Union Station direct to DIA. Ten hours later I was home in my own bed. This morning I have awakened to a beautiful Alaska winter day – clear skies, sunshine and 11°F. So then, let’s address a couple of your responses…
21. It’s a great life working as a bartender for the rich and famous in Vail, Colorado. Now that the season is over, it’s time to relocate to Las Vegas and your summer job bartending at the MGM Grand. Thankfully the transition is made easier this year with the addition of a new once weekly 1-stop direct flight between Vail’s Eagle County Regional Airport and Las Vegas. Identify the airline, aircraft and enroute stop if you please.
Per Toshbaf: Almost certainly incorrect but.... PSA EGE-SLC-LAS BAe 146
Per jlemon: Yet another wild guess (and yes, I have actually heard about and also flown on this airline): Delta operating a former Western B737-200 EGE - SLC - LAS.
Sorry boys – you’re both off the mark. But wait! Toshbaf has correctly identified the aircraft. It was a BAe-146. Armed with that information, I do believe that one of you will very quickly solve this enduring mystery. So then, we’re looking for the airline and the correct routing. Go get ‘em!
Last edited by Seat 2A; Mar 4, 2019 at 1:57 pm
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Thank you one and all for your commentary on United's Caravelle operations and your first flights. It's made for very entertaining reading. ^
As to my "possible" flight on the Caravelle between Santa Barbara and Los Angeles, it occurred in August of 1962. I remember that trip well. It was just before my 5th birthday. We had driven from Denver to California in our new Ford Country Squire station wagon and visited Disneyland and Marine World before staying with family friends in Santa Barbara. I had a great time, but also some close calls with bad times. First I fell into a hotel swimming pool and had to be rescued (I didn't learn how to swim until the next summer) and then a baby sitter we'd hired decided the best way to teach me how to swim was to throw me in the deep end of the swimming pool. She was quickly unhired. Finally, while fiddling around with the car door I somehow managed to fall most of the way out of the car while we were driving along at 30+ mph. I was holding on to the handle - totally outside the car - while my dad frantically pulled off the road. My legs got scratched up pretty good with the end result being that while everyone else drove back to Colorado, my mom and I flew back.
So then, here we were flying SBA-LAX-DEN. I have no idea what the scheduled aircraft was for our SBA-LAX flight (Convair 340 or DC-6) but as mentioned earlier I remember climbing the rear stairs of the Caravelle and looking out those triangular windows with the thick cabin wall molding. All of the information WHBM has presented regarding heavy maintenance at SFO and the possible substitution of the Caravelle on regional western routes certainly point to the possibility that my memory serves me well, though obviously it's hardly conclusive specific to my experience.
Additionally, while I have my DEN-LAX flight logged as a Continental 707, the arrival of the 720Bs freed up the 707s for other things such as MAC charters to Vietnam. At my young age I was not yet able to distinguish between a 707 and a 720 so who knows, maybe I was on a 720B. The same holds true for the next summer when we flew back east to Providence, RI. The return flights included a segment on American from JFK to ORD. I have it logged as a 707 but who knows - perhaps it was a 720. Or even a Convair 990! I could look up some schedules from 1963 but the problem is that all I remember is that it was an afternoon flight. A check of AA's 1963 timetable via timetableimages.com shows the aircraft type only as "Astrojet".
As to my "possible" flight on the Caravelle between Santa Barbara and Los Angeles, it occurred in August of 1962. I remember that trip well. It was just before my 5th birthday. We had driven from Denver to California in our new Ford Country Squire station wagon and visited Disneyland and Marine World before staying with family friends in Santa Barbara. I had a great time, but also some close calls with bad times. First I fell into a hotel swimming pool and had to be rescued (I didn't learn how to swim until the next summer) and then a baby sitter we'd hired decided the best way to teach me how to swim was to throw me in the deep end of the swimming pool. She was quickly unhired. Finally, while fiddling around with the car door I somehow managed to fall most of the way out of the car while we were driving along at 30+ mph. I was holding on to the handle - totally outside the car - while my dad frantically pulled off the road. My legs got scratched up pretty good with the end result being that while everyone else drove back to Colorado, my mom and I flew back.
So then, here we were flying SBA-LAX-DEN. I have no idea what the scheduled aircraft was for our SBA-LAX flight (Convair 340 or DC-6) but as mentioned earlier I remember climbing the rear stairs of the Caravelle and looking out those triangular windows with the thick cabin wall molding. All of the information WHBM has presented regarding heavy maintenance at SFO and the possible substitution of the Caravelle on regional western routes certainly point to the possibility that my memory serves me well, though obviously it's hardly conclusive specific to my experience.
Additionally, while I have my DEN-LAX flight logged as a Continental 707, the arrival of the 720Bs freed up the 707s for other things such as MAC charters to Vietnam. At my young age I was not yet able to distinguish between a 707 and a 720 so who knows, maybe I was on a 720B. The same holds true for the next summer when we flew back east to Providence, RI. The return flights included a segment on American from JFK to ORD. I have it logged as a 707 but who knows - perhaps it was a 720. Or even a Convair 990! I could look up some schedules from 1963 but the problem is that all I remember is that it was an afternoon flight. A check of AA's 1963 timetable via timetableimages.com shows the aircraft type only as "Astrojet".