rosensfole

At last, I have time to peruse my favourite quiz page again. Since I got back from my New Year trip I've hardly had time to breathe. At my age I should be taking it easy...

7. The trip from Gibraltar to Palma went without incident and, after a couple of relaxing days enjoying the warm Mallorcan sun, it’s time to return to cold and rainy Manchester. From Palma one airline offers a single weekly flight back up to Manchester. Name the airline and the aircraft type you’ll be flying upon.

I was in Majorca around this time, catching the end of season sunshine before another grey and miserable skin whitening Manchester winter. Problem is I can't remember the airline but am fairly sure I came home on a Boeing 737. I recollect a return from somewhere on Air Europe but I suspect this one was with Britannia. Perhaps it was the previous year, memory fades you see...

jlemon

We had a quiz question concerning TWA's Miami service in 1960 awhile back. TWA was operating two daily departures from Miami in the spring of that year, one with a Boeing 707-131 and the other with a Lockheed Constellation model the airline called the "Jetstream".

TW 77 operated with a 707 departed MIA daily at 8:30 am, arrived into STL at 11:05 am and then departed at 11:40 am arriving into LAX at 1:20 pm. This was the only morning jet service from Miami to St. Louis and Los Angeles at the time.

The TWA Constellation flight departed MIA at 5:45 pm, made stops at TPA, ATL, STL, MKC and LAX and then arrived into SFO at 7:44 am the next day.

The only other service from Florida to California back in 1960 was provided by a three airline interchange arrangement operated by National, Delta and American. We had a quiz question in the past concerning this service as well. Together, the three air carriers operated one daily jet flight from Miami to Los Angeles using a Boeing 707 provided by AA. Flight 931 operated by a National flight crew departed MIA at 7:30 pm and arrived into MSY at 8:10 pm. A Delta flight crew then took over with the service departing MSY at 8:50 pm and arriving into Dallas Love Field (DAL) at 10:10 pm. An American flight crew then took the flight the rest of the way to Los Angeles with flight 931 departing DAL at 10:40 pm and arriving into LAX at 11:45 pm.

National, Delta and American were also operating three other westbound interchange services a day in 1960 from Florida to California flown with Douglas piston powered equipment. There were two DC-7 flights, one operating Miami - Orlando - New Orleans - Dallas Love - Los Angeles and the other operating Miami - Tampa - New Orleans - Dallas Love - Oakland - San Francisco. The interchange points were once again New Orleans and Dallas. The third interchange service was flown with a DC-6 operating Miami - Tampa - New Orleans - Fort Worth - El Paso - San Diego - Los Angeles. The interchange points on this flight were New Orleans and Fort Worth.

So if one wanted to fly on board a jet from Miami to Los Angeles at this time, there were only two flights a day, one wholly operated by TWA and the other by National, Delta and American via their interchange arrangement.

WHBM

I wonder how this worked. The CAB would normally only allow "Interchange" flights where they were handled by the crews of each carrier on the appropriate sector, on their Air Operators' Certificate. This meant they needed fully trained crews on the aircraft, check airmen, and all the necessary procedures. American had the 707 but the other two didn't. Other Interchange arrangements had to use the equipment that all parties possessed and knew.

In the case of the National-Pan Am-Panagra interchange flights to South America, because National did not have the 707 it had to be on a DC8. Panagra got some of the original Pan Am fleet for this, later replaced by their own DC8s, and when Pan Am disposed of most of the DC8s they had to keep a few on to keep their currency up, and also maintain a small DC8 crew base at Miami, where their original DC8 fleet had mostly been crewed out of New York.

On the Miami to LA flight, in prop aircraft days it was no problem, because all three participants had DC7s.

jlemon

It certainly sounds like an expensive proposition to me specifically with regard to National and Delta having to train air crew and then keep some of their respective pilots current, etc. concerning the 707. Perhaps the two airlines were willing to bear this cost in order to provide jet service between MIA and LAX. I have the feeling their marketing departments got involved with the decision making process in order to remain competitive with the TWA Florida - California jet service. I have a friend who is a check airman and training Captain on the 777 for American so I'll ask him about this next time I see him.....although when I mention "interchange", I may indeed get a blank stare.

And speaking of Pan Am and their DC-8 equipment, I think they kept several DC-8s around as well for the Delta - Pan Am interchange service between the U.S. and Europe.

Of course, I just happen to have those eastbound Delta - Pan Am interchange schedules from a 1969 Delta system timetable.....

DL/PA 106: New Orleans (MSY) 1:20p - 3:32p Atlanta (ATL) 4:20p - 5:58p Washington Dulles (IAD) 7:00p - 7:05a London Heathrow (LHR) 8:30a - 9:45a Frankfurt (FRA)
Freq: Daily
Equip: JET DC-8
Service classes: F/Y

DL/PA 52: New Orleans (MSY) 2:30p - 5:47p Washington Dulles (IAD) 6:45p - 8:15p Boston (BOS) 9:00p - 8:35a Paris Orly (ORY)
Freq: Daily
Equip: JET DC-8
Service classes: F/Y

Note that passengers originating in Atlanta bound for Paris had to change planes at Washington Dulles.

I am unsure whether local traffic was permitted from New Orleans to Boston or from Washington Dulles to Boston. Delta was not serving BOS at this time; however, the DL timetable does not make any note concerning any possible traffic restrictions between MSY/IAD and BOS. Pan Am crews operated flight 52 from IAD to BOS so perhaps local traffic was not permitted as PA was prohibited from providing domestic service at this time with several exceptions (such as between the U.S. west coast and Hawaii as well as between Portland/Seattle and Fairbanks).

WHBM

Once they got into the swing of Boeing 707 deliveries in the 1960s, Pan Am kept the DC8s to specific routes, although for some reason they were always extremely coy about types in their timetables, and just said "Jet". I believe 1960s OAGs were more specific. The DC8s mainly out of New York were commonly assigned to Scandinavia, Africa, and about half the flights to London. The Delta interchange through Washington was handled by these Pan Am crews working back from London. For half the year it was a Pan Am aircraft, and the other half it was a Delta one, otherwise an unusual sight in London. That was another expense of interchange flights, because the Delta aircraft had to have the full rig of over-ocean liferafts, which like most US domestic operators they did not otherwise need - crossing the Caribbean is too short for these requirements to take effect, although California to Hawaii requires it.

jlemon

Welcome back rosensfole! And concerning age, I certainly resemble your remark....

jlemon

Indeed, and that always bugged me as I wanted to know what the specific equipment was!

Interestingly, in a departure from their normal practice of not listing specific aircraft types, Pan Am did so in their June 1969 system timetable...

http://www.timetableimages.com/ttima...69/pa69-03.jpg

http://www.timetableimages.com/ttima...69/pa69-04.jpg

Seat 2A

Seat 2A

Seat 2A

Delta, Eastern and Northwest

YVR Cockroach

I'd swear that Cathay Pacific used "JET" in their timetables into the '90s and possibly '00s. I recall some having had the pleasure to find themselves in int'l FC seats when a 3 CoS a/c was used.

Seat 2A

Seat 2A

Per WHBM: For some reason they were always extremely coy about types in their timetables, and just said "Jet". I believe 1960s OAGs were more specific.

Per YVR Cockroach: I'd swear that Cathay Pacific used "JET" in their timetables into the '90s and possibly '00s. I recall some having had the pleasure to find themselves in int'l FC seats when a 3 CoS a/c was used.

Per Seat 2A: Alaska Airlines also did this through the early 70s. Seems like during the 60s the 880s were always indicated as such, though I've yet to ever see a 990 listed in Alaska's schedules. Into the early 1970s, more often than not the aircraft would've been a 727-100 but there were those 720s as well....

Seat 2A

Just three and a half more questions left. Let's finish these off before I head overseas next week...



The following quiz items have a time line of the winter of 1986....

2. Since Air Jamaica retired its DC-8s, the big four engine jetliner has been a rare sight at Montego Bay’s Sangster International Airport. These days MBJ is served by a single daily D8S and you’re about to board it! Which airline are you flying and where are you flying to?
A N S W E R E D

3. You’re on Koror where it’s been a great week of diving and exploring submerged WWII ships. Now it’s time to return to Honolulu. Surprisingly, Air Mike only serves Honolulu via a connection in Guam. But wait! There’s another option – a 2-stop direct flight that just happens to be leaving Koror on Sunday afternoon. Identify the airline, aircraft and the two enroute stops.
It was not Air Nauru, but the second stop was on Majuro

The following quiz items have a time line of the spring of 1991....

22. Identify the three airlines operating MD80s between airports on the US mainland and Aruba
ALM & BWIA identified. It's not VIASA. Still need one more...

25. From Los Angeles (LAX), you can fly nonstop on a jet to three different Colorado ski areas. Each ski area is served by a different airline operating a different type of aircraft. Identify the three ski areas along with the airline and equipment that serves each one.
ASE via UAE with a BAe-146-100 and HDN via AA with a 727-200 have been identified.
Vail/Eagle has been identified. We need the airline/aircraft that served it from LAX.
That airline was not AA, CO, DL or ET
A N S W E R E D

jrl767

22- Air Aruba and ALM would seem to be obvious choices; I think BWIA may have also served AUA on the way to/from Port of Spain (POS) and Antigua (ANU) ...
25- I had initially guessed Montrose (MTJ) with a Continental 737-500; the airport was incorrect, but in the absence of feedback as to airline or equipment I will proffer that again