Old Timer's Airline Quiz and Discussion.
Jul 11, 2012, 2:49 pm
#1336
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However I did read an article which said that heavy maintenance checks were performed on the Caravelles at the big United maintenance base in San Francisco, that they were ferried empty to and fro, and it was common to see one on the ramp there. Off-line maintenance bases (which SFO would be for Caravelles) were not unknown even in the 1950s-60s
Last edited by Seat 2A; Aug 9, 2012 at 7:12 pm
Jul 11, 2012, 3:19 pm
#1337
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I am told by family members that we flew aboard a Caravelle from Santa Barbara to Los Angeles in the summer of 1961. Like all of you, I had always been under the impression that United's Caravelles were only operated back east but now I can't help but wonder if perhaps United might have slipped one on to a SFO-SBA-LAX schedule as a replacement aircraft on the day we flew...?...
But I wonder if UA substituted a Caravelle that was fresh out of maintenance at SFO for a flight down the coast? Very intriguing!
Jul 11, 2012, 4:21 pm
#1339
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Jul 11, 2012, 5:09 pm
#1340
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Finally came across this terrific quiz, better late than never. I'm book marking it for when I have more time. Glancing through very quickly, two memories came back. My uncle was a captain on AA 747's. He told me that the piano bar of the 70's drove him crazy. In 1964 we missed our BOAC ? out of LHR to Nice and Air France took over our tickets, putting us on the Caravelle.
Jul 11, 2012, 6:55 pm
#1341
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Avensa? SAETA? Varig? Viasa?
Ah, in all honesty, I have no idea, really.....
Unless it might have been......Air Martinique? Maybe down to PTP and FDF via an intermediate stop (or stops) somewhere?
But no.....I believe Air Martinique did not commence operations until the mid 70's so I don't think it was them.....
Perhaps an European air carrier coming from the other direction across the pond with some en route stops somewhere for fuel?
Last edited by jlemon; Jul 11, 2012 at 7:02 pm Reason: Pure speculation - a specialty on FT!
Jul 12, 2012, 12:13 am
#1342
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Early am here in London, and for once in revent times a clear blue sky day instead of the continuous monsoon weather of recent months. London City has just opened for the day and the first departure is going in the distance as I write this, while from the back of the house there is a distant view of the inevitable holding of inbound flights to Heathrow, circling to the north-east of London.
Meanwhile, we seem to be on Caravelles at the moment. The last one I saw was a few months ago at the museum at Paris's old Le Bourget airport. But the one into New York in 1960 was Varig, who started using them on their secondary service from intermediate Brazilian points, the main service to Rio being done with early 707s (Rolls-Royce engined ones). The long-range Caravelles didn't last too long, being replaced by another oddball type, Varig being one of those airlines who seem to have bought a couple of everything rather than standardising. Anyone care to speculate what these were ?
Regaring the United Caravelles, I am reminded that another significant modification the FAA required was larger cockpit windows, they didn't care for the basic ones; from inside the flight deck the sharply-angled front windscreens on the aircraft do appear a bit odd. That's another big and expensive modification, however much did it cost Sud to try and break into the US market ? The whole front end of the Caravelle was designed and built under subcontract by De Havilland in Britain, and is effectively the same as the De Havilland Comet 4, a contemporary four-engined jet.
Hello Daph, welcome to our little nostalgia. This would have been BEA in 1964, the other half of what became British Airways 10 years later. Their aircraft at the time on the Nice run would have been - yes, the Comet again, the Comet 4B which BEA ran at the time.
In passing Mrs WHBM
and myself are off from London City to Nice as well quite soon, we like the timeless Riviera, the BA Embraer 190 from just down the road is nice and efficient, and you even get a decent hot breakfast in economy on a 1 hour 30 minute flight (added just to make you US travellers jealous !). But what would I give to be going in a Comet, provided you remember the earplugs, or a Caravelle.
Meanwhile, we seem to be on Caravelles at the moment. The last one I saw was a few months ago at the museum at Paris's old Le Bourget airport. But the one into New York in 1960 was Varig, who started using them on their secondary service from intermediate Brazilian points, the main service to Rio being done with early 707s (Rolls-Royce engined ones). The long-range Caravelles didn't last too long, being replaced by another oddball type, Varig being one of those airlines who seem to have bought a couple of everything rather than standardising. Anyone care to speculate what these were ?
Regaring the United Caravelles, I am reminded that another significant modification the FAA required was larger cockpit windows, they didn't care for the basic ones; from inside the flight deck the sharply-angled front windscreens on the aircraft do appear a bit odd. That's another big and expensive modification, however much did it cost Sud to try and break into the US market ? The whole front end of the Caravelle was designed and built under subcontract by De Havilland in Britain, and is effectively the same as the De Havilland Comet 4, a contemporary four-engined jet.
In 1964 we missed our BOAC ? out of LHR to Nice and Air France took over our tickets, putting us on the Caravelle.
In passing Mrs WHBM
and myself are off from London City to Nice as well quite soon, we like the timeless Riviera, the BA Embraer 190 from just down the road is nice and efficient, and you even get a decent hot breakfast in economy on a 1 hour 30 minute flight (added just to make you US travellers jealous !). But what would I give to be going in a Comet, provided you remember the earplugs, or a Caravelle.
Jul 12, 2012, 12:27 am
#1343
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I am spending the night in the Juneau airport, so I've brought along plenty of reading material including a copy of the June 1968 North American OAG. Might as well toss out a few questions...
1. What US Airline named some of its jets after French cities? What type of jets were so named?
2. It’s June of 1968 and you want to fly First Class on a direct flight from Waterloo, Iowa to Denver, Colorado. Which airline would you call?
3. Only two U.S. airlines operated the DC-10-10CF (Convertible Freighter). Which airlines were they?
4. It’s 1968 and you’re flying aboard one of two daily nonstop flights between Tacoma, Washington and Seattle (BFI). Which airline and aircraft are you flying?
5. In June of 1968, American operated seven different sizes of aircraft on its Detroit to Chicago schedule. Can you name them?
6. It’s June of 1968 and you’re flying aboard the only nonstop jet between San Antonio, Texas and Monterrey, Mexico. Name the airline and the equipment.
7. June sure is a busy travel month! Now you’re booked aboard the only flight between Bowling Green, Kentucky and Chicago. It leaves at 5:00pm and makes one stop enroute. Name the airline and the four engined aircraft.
8. In June of 1968, this was the only airline offering direct or nonstop service between Las Vegas and ANYWHERE in Arizona.
9. In June of 1968, there were eight daily nonstop flights between Fresno and San Francisco. Only two of them were jets, operated by this airline…
10. What airlines’ airport lounges were known as “Council Clubs”?
11. This airline provided nonstop 727-100 service between Newark, New Jersey and Niagara Falls International Airport from 1980 to 1984.
12. From 1998 to 2001, this airline operated scheduled 737-200 on various routes between Des Moines, Peoria, Moline, New York City (LaGuardia), Colorado Springs and Los Angeles.
13. This airline commenced operations in 1982 between Long Island MacArthur Airport in Islip, NY and Fort Lauderdale-Hollywood International Airport using a single Douglas DC-8-52 aircraft. In 1983, five Boeing 727-100s and four Boeing 727-200s were added. Two of the -100s were painted in a distinctive cloud color scheme, one blue, one pink. Which airline was this?
14. Since its humble beginnings in 1971, Southwest Airlines has acquired three other airlines. Can you name them?
15. In 1988, this airline’s aging 737-200 was used as the campaign plane for first Republican Senator Robert Dole and then Massachusetts Governor and eventual Democratic nominee for president, Michael Dukakis. Reporters assigned to Dukakis nicknamed the plane "The Sky Pig" because it was so slow.
1. What US Airline named some of its jets after French cities? What type of jets were so named?
2. It’s June of 1968 and you want to fly First Class on a direct flight from Waterloo, Iowa to Denver, Colorado. Which airline would you call?
3. Only two U.S. airlines operated the DC-10-10CF (Convertible Freighter). Which airlines were they?
4. It’s 1968 and you’re flying aboard one of two daily nonstop flights between Tacoma, Washington and Seattle (BFI). Which airline and aircraft are you flying?
5. In June of 1968, American operated seven different sizes of aircraft on its Detroit to Chicago schedule. Can you name them?
6. It’s June of 1968 and you’re flying aboard the only nonstop jet between San Antonio, Texas and Monterrey, Mexico. Name the airline and the equipment.
7. June sure is a busy travel month! Now you’re booked aboard the only flight between Bowling Green, Kentucky and Chicago. It leaves at 5:00pm and makes one stop enroute. Name the airline and the four engined aircraft.
8. In June of 1968, this was the only airline offering direct or nonstop service between Las Vegas and ANYWHERE in Arizona.
9. In June of 1968, there were eight daily nonstop flights between Fresno and San Francisco. Only two of them were jets, operated by this airline…
10. What airlines’ airport lounges were known as “Council Clubs”?
11. This airline provided nonstop 727-100 service between Newark, New Jersey and Niagara Falls International Airport from 1980 to 1984.
12. From 1998 to 2001, this airline operated scheduled 737-200 on various routes between Des Moines, Peoria, Moline, New York City (LaGuardia), Colorado Springs and Los Angeles.
13. This airline commenced operations in 1982 between Long Island MacArthur Airport in Islip, NY and Fort Lauderdale-Hollywood International Airport using a single Douglas DC-8-52 aircraft. In 1983, five Boeing 727-100s and four Boeing 727-200s were added. Two of the -100s were painted in a distinctive cloud color scheme, one blue, one pink. Which airline was this?
14. Since its humble beginnings in 1971, Southwest Airlines has acquired three other airlines. Can you name them?
15. In 1988, this airline’s aging 737-200 was used as the campaign plane for first Republican Senator Robert Dole and then Massachusetts Governor and eventual Democratic nominee for president, Michael Dukakis. Reporters assigned to Dukakis nicknamed the plane "The Sky Pig" because it was so slow.
Jul 12, 2012, 12:32 am
#1344
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I'm pretty sure Varig operated Convair 990s and DC-8-30s in addition to the 707-441s.
Jul 12, 2012, 3:21 am
#1345
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[QUOTE=Seat 2A;18914744]I1. What US Airline named some of its jets after French cities? What type of jets were so named?
The aforementioned United Caravelles. The first one was, appropriately, Ville de Toulouse
2. It’s June of 1968 and you want to fly First Class on a direct flight from Waterloo, Iowa to Denver, Colorado. Which airline would you call?
I'll guess Ozark.
3. Only two U.S. airlines operated the DC-10-10CF (Convertible Freighter). Which airlines were they?
I would say three. Continental bought several, and United bought one. As far as I can tell they were never used for cargo service by these mainstream carriers. There was a programme at the time, the Civil Reserve Air Fleet, which paid a subsidy for reserve cargo/passenger aircraft, and these aircraft were part of that. For the same reason, US charter operators have almost always purchased cargo/passenger convertible aircraft, even where they do not generally operate cargo flights.
The third is Federal Express, who bought all of them secondhand, and for whom they were among their first widebody aircraft. They're still in service.
4. It’s 1968 and you’re flying aboard one of two daily nonstop flights between Tacoma, Washington and Seattle (BFI). Which airline and aircraft are you flying?
Air West. If you had the May rather than the June 1968 OAG it would be West Coast, because they merged up in June. Aircraft wouldbe an F27.
7. June sure is a busy travel month! Now you’re booked aboard the only flight between Bowling Green, Kentucky and Chicago. It leaves at 5:00pm and makes one stop enroute. Name the airline and the four engined aircraft.
Eastern Electra
8. In June of 1968, this was the only airline offering direct or nonstop service between Las Vegas and ANYWHERE in Arizona.
Air West again, this time fom the old Bonanza part.
9. In June of 1968, there were eight daily nonstop flights between Fresno and San Francisco. Only two of them were jets, operated by this airline…
United
14. Since its humble beginnings in 1971, Southwest Airlines has acquired three other airlines. Can you name them?
Morris, Muse, Air Tran
All just guesses - I'm in a train, on Wireless.
The aforementioned United Caravelles. The first one was, appropriately, Ville de Toulouse
2. It’s June of 1968 and you want to fly First Class on a direct flight from Waterloo, Iowa to Denver, Colorado. Which airline would you call?
I'll guess Ozark.
3. Only two U.S. airlines operated the DC-10-10CF (Convertible Freighter). Which airlines were they?
I would say three. Continental bought several, and United bought one. As far as I can tell they were never used for cargo service by these mainstream carriers. There was a programme at the time, the Civil Reserve Air Fleet, which paid a subsidy for reserve cargo/passenger aircraft, and these aircraft were part of that. For the same reason, US charter operators have almost always purchased cargo/passenger convertible aircraft, even where they do not generally operate cargo flights.
The third is Federal Express, who bought all of them secondhand, and for whom they were among their first widebody aircraft. They're still in service.
4. It’s 1968 and you’re flying aboard one of two daily nonstop flights between Tacoma, Washington and Seattle (BFI). Which airline and aircraft are you flying?
Air West. If you had the May rather than the June 1968 OAG it would be West Coast, because they merged up in June. Aircraft wouldbe an F27.
7. June sure is a busy travel month! Now you’re booked aboard the only flight between Bowling Green, Kentucky and Chicago. It leaves at 5:00pm and makes one stop enroute. Name the airline and the four engined aircraft.
Eastern Electra
8. In June of 1968, this was the only airline offering direct or nonstop service between Las Vegas and ANYWHERE in Arizona.
Air West again, this time fom the old Bonanza part.
9. In June of 1968, there were eight daily nonstop flights between Fresno and San Francisco. Only two of them were jets, operated by this airline…
United
14. Since its humble beginnings in 1971, Southwest Airlines has acquired three other airlines. Can you name them?
Morris, Muse, Air Tran
All just guesses - I'm in a train, on Wireless.
Jul 12, 2012, 7:30 am
#1347
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Hey Seat 2A! How's everything in JNU?
Last time I flew in there, it was in F on an AS 72S with a routing of SEA-KTN-SIT-JNU.
And I departed in F on a DL 72S nonstop to SEA and then on to LAX with no change of plane....
Here are my answers:
5. American with BAC One-Eleven 400, Boeing 707, 720, 727-100 and 727-200, Convair 990 and Lockheed L-188 Electra nonstop service beween Chicago and Detroit. I believe there were around 20 or more flights in each direction on weekdays. And the last time I flew from DTW to ORD, it was in Y on an AA B747-100.
6. Mexicana with B727. Service continued on to MEX (SAT-MTY-MEX routing).
12. AccessAir.
Last time I flew in there, it was in F on an AS 72S with a routing of SEA-KTN-SIT-JNU.
And I departed in F on a DL 72S nonstop to SEA and then on to LAX with no change of plane....
Here are my answers:
5. American with BAC One-Eleven 400, Boeing 707, 720, 727-100 and 727-200, Convair 990 and Lockheed L-188 Electra nonstop service beween Chicago and Detroit. I believe there were around 20 or more flights in each direction on weekdays. And the last time I flew from DTW to ORD, it was in Y on an AA B747-100.
6. Mexicana with B727. Service continued on to MEX (SAT-MTY-MEX routing).
12. AccessAir.
Last edited by jlemon; Jul 12, 2012 at 7:41 am Reason: Additional AA info ORD-DTW
Jul 12, 2012, 7:46 am
#1348
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In passing Mrs WHBM
and myself are off from London City to Nice as well quite soon, we like the timeless Riviera, the BA Embraer 190 from just down the road is nice and efficient, and you even get a decent hot breakfast in economy on a 1 hour 30 minute flight (added just to make you US travellers jealous !). But what would I give to be going in a Comet, provided you remember the earplugs, or a Caravelle.[/QUOTE]Hope you and your lady have a great trip, WHBM!
And I have a question concerning the Caravelle: did United fly the aircraft with a two (2) person (no flight engineer) or three (3) person (with flight engineer) flight crew?
Jul 12, 2012, 11:22 am
#1349
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The whole front end of the Caravelle, including the cockpit layout, was done for Sud by De Havilland, and taken directly from the Comet designs. I've never been inside a Comet flight deck but I understand they look almost interchangeable.
In other news, remember that blue sky day I wrote about 12 hours ago, above ? Just got rain-soaked walking home from the station again. London will be becoming a rain forest.
Last edited by WHBM; Jul 12, 2012 at 11:34 am
Jul 12, 2012, 5:33 pm
#1350
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Sorry for the delay here, gang - I didn't have time in Juneau this morning and the in-terminal internet was down at Ketchikan. Now I'm in the Anchorage Boardroom with a good connection. As to the following questions...
1. What US Airline named some of its jets after French cities? What type of jets were so named?
The aforementioned United Caravelles. The first one was, appropriately, Ville de Toulouse Oui, Monsieur ~ Vous ętes corrects!
2. It’s June of 1968 and you want to fly First Class on a direct flight from Waterloo, Iowa to Denver, Colorado. Which airline would you call?
I'll guess Ozark. Right again! Go-Getters Go Ozark!
3. Only two U.S. airlines operated the DC-10-10CF (Convertible Freighter). Which airlines were they?
I would say three. And you would be correct. I should have said "ordered" as both United (1) and Continental (8) flew the DC-10-10CF, after which Federal Express bought all of them secondhand. Well done, WHBM!
4. It’s 1968 and you’re flying aboard one of two daily nonstop flights between Tacoma, Washington and Seattle (BFI). Which airline and aircraft are you flying?
Air West. If you had the May rather than the June 1968 OAG it would be West Coast, because they merged up in June. Aircraft would be an F27. Actually, I was working from the June 1968 OAG and all the flights still show WC. Regardless, you're on top of it though so I'll consider this essentially a correct answer. You choice of aircraft however was incorrect. It was a DC-3.
5. In June of 1968, American operated seven different sizes of aircraft on its Detroit to Chicago schedule. Can you name them?
American with BAC One-Eleven 400, Boeing 707, 720, 727-100 and 727-200, Convair 990 and Lockheed L-188 Electra nonstop service beween Chicago and Detroit. I believe there were around 20 or more flights in each direction on weekdays. And the last time I flew from DTW to ORD, it was in Y on an AA B747-100. Outstanding recollection there, jlemon! You hit each and every one of them! Pretty amazing that AA operated its 747 on such a short run. Was the flight even a third full?
6. It’s June of 1968 and you’re flying aboard the only nonstop jet between San Antonio, Texas and Monterrey, Mexico. Name the airline and the equipment.
Mexicana with B727. Service continued on to MEX (SAT-MTY-MEX routing). You've got the airline right but the equipment was a bit more exotic...
7. June sure is a busy travel month! Now you’re booked aboard the only flight between Bowling Green, Kentucky and Chicago. It leaves at 5:00pm and makes one stop enroute. Name the airline and the four engined aircraft.
Eastern Electra Right on! Good call, WHBM!
8. In June of 1968, this was the only airline offering direct or nonstop service between Las Vegas and ANYWHERE in Arizona.
Air West again, this time from the old Bonanza part. See question 4 but yes, Bonanza was the one!
9. In June of 1968, there were eight daily nonstop flights between Fresno and San Francisco. Only two of them were jets, operated by this airline…
United United offered DC-6 service on this route but no jets yet...
12. From 1998 to 2001, this airline operated scheduled 737-200 on various routes between Des Moines, Peoria, Moline, New York City (LaGuardia), Colorado Springs and Los Angeles.
AccessAir is correct!
13. This airline commenced operations in 1982 between Long Island MacArthur Airport in Islip, NY and Fort Lauderdale-Hollywood International Airport using a single Douglas DC-8-52 aircraft. In 1983, five Boeing 727-100s and four Boeing 727-200s were added. Two of the -100s were painted in a distinctive cloud color scheme, one blue, one pink. Which airline was this?
Score one for cs57! It was Northeastern International Airways. I flew aboard one of its ex-PA 727s in 1984 from FLL to PIE. An A300 was added to the fleet before this airline went out of business in 1986.
14. Since its humble beginnings in 1971, Southwest Airlines has acquired three other airlines. Can you name them?
Morris, Muse, Air Tran An excellent call, WHBM! Southwest renamed Muse Air TranStar Airlines. TranStar then became a wholly owned subsidiary of Southwest and was operated as an independent airline. Unwilling to compete in a fare war against Frank Lorenzo's Texas Air, Southwest eventually sold TransStar's assets to Lorenzo in August 1987.
1. What US Airline named some of its jets after French cities? What type of jets were so named?
The aforementioned United Caravelles. The first one was, appropriately, Ville de Toulouse Oui, Monsieur ~ Vous ętes corrects!
2. It’s June of 1968 and you want to fly First Class on a direct flight from Waterloo, Iowa to Denver, Colorado. Which airline would you call?
I'll guess Ozark. Right again! Go-Getters Go Ozark!
3. Only two U.S. airlines operated the DC-10-10CF (Convertible Freighter). Which airlines were they?
I would say three. And you would be correct. I should have said "ordered" as both United (1) and Continental (8) flew the DC-10-10CF, after which Federal Express bought all of them secondhand. Well done, WHBM!
4. It’s 1968 and you’re flying aboard one of two daily nonstop flights between Tacoma, Washington and Seattle (BFI). Which airline and aircraft are you flying?
Air West. If you had the May rather than the June 1968 OAG it would be West Coast, because they merged up in June. Aircraft would be an F27. Actually, I was working from the June 1968 OAG and all the flights still show WC. Regardless, you're on top of it though so I'll consider this essentially a correct answer. You choice of aircraft however was incorrect. It was a DC-3.
5. In June of 1968, American operated seven different sizes of aircraft on its Detroit to Chicago schedule. Can you name them?
American with BAC One-Eleven 400, Boeing 707, 720, 727-100 and 727-200, Convair 990 and Lockheed L-188 Electra nonstop service beween Chicago and Detroit. I believe there were around 20 or more flights in each direction on weekdays. And the last time I flew from DTW to ORD, it was in Y on an AA B747-100. Outstanding recollection there, jlemon! You hit each and every one of them! Pretty amazing that AA operated its 747 on such a short run. Was the flight even a third full?
6. It’s June of 1968 and you’re flying aboard the only nonstop jet between San Antonio, Texas and Monterrey, Mexico. Name the airline and the equipment.
Mexicana with B727. Service continued on to MEX (SAT-MTY-MEX routing). You've got the airline right but the equipment was a bit more exotic...
7. June sure is a busy travel month! Now you’re booked aboard the only flight between Bowling Green, Kentucky and Chicago. It leaves at 5:00pm and makes one stop enroute. Name the airline and the four engined aircraft.
Eastern Electra Right on! Good call, WHBM!
8. In June of 1968, this was the only airline offering direct or nonstop service between Las Vegas and ANYWHERE in Arizona.
Air West again, this time from the old Bonanza part. See question 4 but yes, Bonanza was the one!
9. In June of 1968, there were eight daily nonstop flights between Fresno and San Francisco. Only two of them were jets, operated by this airline…
United United offered DC-6 service on this route but no jets yet...
12. From 1998 to 2001, this airline operated scheduled 737-200 on various routes between Des Moines, Peoria, Moline, New York City (LaGuardia), Colorado Springs and Los Angeles.
AccessAir is correct!
13. This airline commenced operations in 1982 between Long Island MacArthur Airport in Islip, NY and Fort Lauderdale-Hollywood International Airport using a single Douglas DC-8-52 aircraft. In 1983, five Boeing 727-100s and four Boeing 727-200s were added. Two of the -100s were painted in a distinctive cloud color scheme, one blue, one pink. Which airline was this?
Score one for cs57! It was Northeastern International Airways. I flew aboard one of its ex-PA 727s in 1984 from FLL to PIE. An A300 was added to the fleet before this airline went out of business in 1986.
14. Since its humble beginnings in 1971, Southwest Airlines has acquired three other airlines. Can you name them?
Morris, Muse, Air Tran An excellent call, WHBM! Southwest renamed Muse Air TranStar Airlines. TranStar then became a wholly owned subsidiary of Southwest and was operated as an independent airline. Unwilling to compete in a fare war against Frank Lorenzo's Texas Air, Southwest eventually sold TransStar's assets to Lorenzo in August 1987.
Last edited by Seat 2A; Jul 12, 2012 at 8:35 pm