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Old Timer's Airline Quiz and Discussion

Old Timer's Airline Quiz and Discussion

Old Jun 15, 12, 7:45 pm
  #1156  
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Originally Posted by miniliq View Post
Seat2A will have to be the referee on this one -- the original Colombian airline was SCADTA, formed in 1919; it merged with SACO to form Avianca in 1940, so I guess it could be considered as one of the oldest.
Given that it's the same company that's been in continuous operation since 1919 and merely changed its name to AVIANCA, I would be willing to accept this as the second oldest. That would make the top three KLM, AVIANCA and QANTAS in that order. How do the rest of youse feel about this?
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Old Jun 15, 12, 8:15 pm
  #1157  
 
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Originally Posted by WHBM View Post
Further south !
OK, then the Cubana one impounded at Key West.
Originally Posted by Seat 2A View Post
1. Name the locations of five major commercial aircraft graveyards located in the southwest American states of Arizona and Californiaa. Bonus: Name another southwestern graveyard where you’ll find numerous aircraft from American and UPS
Marana MZJ, Mohave MHV, Victorville VCV, Tuscon TUS, Kingman IGM.
4. Which U.S. airlines operated the combined 737-100, -200 and -300 aircraft in their fleets?
America West
5. What are the world’s three oldest currently operating airlines?
KLM is one
10. What now defunct U.S. airline was once owned by a cruise ship company?
Matson
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Old Jun 15, 12, 8:48 pm
  #1158  
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10. What now defunct U.S. airline was once owned by a cruise ship company?

Excellent call, Wally Bird! I totally forgot about Matson Airlines, which operated from July 1946 to July 1947 between Honolulu and the Mainland with DC-4s as part of a cruise one way, fly the other package.

1. Name the locations of five major commercial aircraft graveyards located in the southwest American states of Arizona and California. Bonus: Name another southwestern graveyard where you’ll find numerous aircraft from American and UPS

Marana MZJ, Mohave MHV, Victorville VCV, Tuscon TUS, Kingman IGM.

These are all correct with the exception of Tucson. The other major graveyard is in Arizona, though...

4. Which U.S. airlines operated the combined 737-100, -200 and -300 aircraft in their fleets?

America West

Correct you are! Just one more...
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Old Jun 15, 12, 10:54 pm
  #1159  
 
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Originally Posted by jlemon View Post
Although I do not think the An 26 was ever operated domestically in scheduled passenger service by a U.S. air carrier.....

With regard to the excellent question posed by tonywestsider, I'll make a wild guess here with the Nord 262, although this high wing, twin turboprop is a bit on the small side when compared with the "Herald" and "Friendship"....

The Nord 262 was manufactured in France and was powered by Turbomeca "Bastan" engines. Swift Aire Lines operated the Nord 262 in California. I flew on the aircraft several times SBP-LAX. And I believe that Lake Central also operated the Nord 262 in the upper midwest.

There was also a U.S. version of the Nord 262: the Mohawk 298 which was powered by Pratt & Whitney PT-6 series engines. Allegheny operated the Mohawk 298 in the northeast.
Okay, I'm going to respond to post #1141 before this runs away from me.

jlemon you are totally correct!

It was the Nord 262 from France with those Turbomeca engines that operated for airlines in the US. I'm familiar with the 262 operating for Lake Central. I did not know about Swift Aire. I learned something new, thank you! I vaguely heard of the Mohawk 298 but did not make the connection between that and the Nord 262. Thanks for mentioning that.

Yes, the Antonov AN-24 was in production around or after the same era as the HP Herald, the Nord 262 and the F27, although the plane never saw US airline service. I guess you can see some of them in Florida, with I believe, some four-engine AN-12s for charter.
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Old Jun 15, 12, 11:33 pm
  #1160  
 
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Originally Posted by Seat 2A View Post
10. What now defunct U.S. airline was once owned by a cruise ship company?

Carnival Air Lines (KW) operating A300s, B727-200s, B737-200s and B737-400s. Routes were generally out of Florida to the northeast (including New York City), the Caribbean and even included nonstop transcon MIA-LAX and FLL-LAX service. At one point, Carnival also used LAN Chile B767 and Ladeco A300 aircraft via respective interchange agreements on domestic legs between Florida and New York City.

Right on! Carnival Airlines is the one and thank you for the additional detail. ^
Carnival Air Lines got bought out around 1997 by the second revival of Pan Am, where PA's operations were based out of MIA. I happened to fly two different versions of PA in 1997: LAX-JFK and return, JFK-LAX, both with A-300s (might have been the B4 version). The LAX-JFK flight had crews from the original PA before closing. The JFK-LAX flight had crews from the former Carnival Air Lines. The differences in service quality were like night and day. The original PA crews were highly polished. The former Carnival Air Lines crews were second rate and looked like they didn't know what they were doing.


Originally Posted by Seat 2A View Post
10. What now defunct U.S. airline was once owned by a cruise ship company?

Excellent call, Wally Bird! I totally forgot about Matson Airlines, which operated from July 1946 to July 1947 between Honolulu and the Mainland with DC-4s as part of a cruise one way, fly the other package.

Correct you are! Just one more...
Yes, Matson! There are some photos of a Matson Air Line DC-4, with the entertainer Hilo Hattie and her hula troop posing in front, on a flight between the mainland and HNL.

One more response and new question regarding Seat 2A's question #10: There used to be a ship line called the Inter Island Steamship Company, which provided service between the Hawaiian Islands. There was an airline spin-off of the Inter Island Steamship Company, called Inter Island Airways, which started passenger service from HNL in 1929. The airline is still operating today under another name. What is the name of this airline?
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Old Jun 16, 12, 12:04 am
  #1161  
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Hmm... I thought there was an InterIsland Airways still operating in Hawaii. If that's not it... How about Mokulele?
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Old Jun 16, 12, 1:26 am
  #1162  
 
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Originally Posted by Seat 2A View Post
Hmm... I thought there was an InterIsland Airways still operating in Hawaii. If that's not it... How about Mokulele?
Nope. There's an InterIsland Airways operating in PPG, but not in HNL.
Mokulele is an airline that is less than 10 years old.

Try again....
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Old Jun 16, 12, 7:52 am
  #1163  
 
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Originally Posted by Seat 2A View Post
10. What now defunct U.S. airline was once owned by a cruise ship company?

Excellent call, Wally Bird! I totally forgot about Matson Airlines, which operated from July 1946 to July 1947 between Honolulu and the Mainland with DC-4s as part of a cruise one way, fly the other package.

1. Name the locations of five major commercial aircraft graveyards located in the southwest American states of Arizona and California. Bonus: Name another southwestern graveyard where you’ll find numerous aircraft from American and UPS

Marana MZJ, Mohave MHV, Victorville VCV, Tuscon TUS, Kingman IGM.

These are all correct with the exception of Tucson. The other major graveyard is in Arizona, though...

4. Which U.S. airlines operated the combined 737-100, -200 and -300 aircraft in their fleets?

America West

Correct you are! Just one more...
Continental.

As for TUS vs. GYR(Goodyear), I haven't been to either for a couple of years but last time I'd say the number of 'inmates' was about the same at each. GYR used to have a lot stored there but I think it's been in decline for some years now.

And re: tankers, I read that the MD-87! is in the mix:
Four companies will provide three next generation airtankers in 2012 and four in 2013:


Neptune Aviation Services, Inc. will provide two BAe-146s in 2012;
Minden Air Corporation will provide one BAe-146 in 2012 and 1 BAe-146 in 2013;
Aero Air, LLC will provide two MD87s in 2013; and
Aero Flite, Inc. of Kingman, Arizona will provide one Avro RJ85 in 2013.
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Old Jun 16, 12, 8:52 am
  #1164  
 
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Wally Bird is correct with regard to proposals for the Avro RJ85 and the MD-87 to be converted for aerial fire fighting. The U.S. Forest Service (USFS) is keen to introduce such smaller jet equipment as air tankers as these aircraft will progressively replace much older prop-driven airplanes. There have been some real problems with the older air tanker fleet over the years in terms of safety. For example, some years ago, the wings came off an elderly C-130 that was being operated by a private company as a fire fighting air tanker while it was making a retardant drop.

I think the Avro RJ85 will face no big problems with regard to being converted to an air tanker role given the success of the BAe 146. And as for the MD-87, it will be interesting to see how this aircraft performs as an air tanker as no one has tried this before with this specific aircraft type.

BTW, back in the day, I oversaw contract helicopter fire fighting operations for the U.S. Forest Service and California Dept. of Forestry. We primarily used twin engine Bell 212 helicopters equipped with either "hover fill" belly tanks or "Bambi" water buckets. This was back when ex-military B-17, B-24 and C-119J fixed wing aircraft were still being used as air tankers.....
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Old Jun 16, 12, 12:23 pm
  #1165  
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Originally Posted by Wally Bird View Post
As for TUS vs. GYR(Goodyear), I haven't been to either for a couple of years but last time I'd say the number of 'inmates' was about the same at each. GYR used to have a lot stored there but I think it's been in decline for some years now.
The main airport in Tucson was once a moderate sized aircraft boneyard. In recent years, the airport has required more room as traffic into and out of Tucson has grown. The result is that aircraft storage has become less of a business at Tucson International. There are still a few older retired military aircraft as well as a few retired airliners stored at Tucson International. The vast majority are on the west side of the airport in the area of the WWII-era Consolidated factory. Like the old Consolidated buildings, the aircraft are mostly just rotting away.

It has recently been reported that the aircraft in storage at the Tucson Airport have been scrapped or otherwise disposed of. A recent view in Google Earth shows about two dozen narrow body airliners parked at the old Consolidated ramp.

As for Phoenix/Goodyear, (the old NAS Litchfield Park), I was there three years ago and took these photos. Sorry they're not sharply focused but they're the best I could do from way out on the highway...










Additionally, you are correct that Continental is the other airline that operated the 737-100/200/300. ^

Last edited by Seat 2A; Jun 16, 12 at 12:35 pm
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Old Jun 16, 12, 12:28 pm
  #1166  
 
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Originally Posted by tonywestsider View Post
One more response and new question regarding Seat 2A's question #10: There used to be a ship line called the Inter Island Steamship Company, which provided service between the Hawaiian Islands. There was an airline spin-off of the Inter Island Steamship Company, called Inter Island Airways, which started passenger service from HNL in 1929. The airline is still operating today under another name. What is the name of this airline?
Originally Posted by tonywestsider View Post
Nope. There's an InterIsland Airways operating in PPG, but not in HNL.
Mokulele is an airline that is less than 10 years old.

Try again....
I'll respond to this before the question runs away:

This is a cover from the Inter-Island Airways timetable in 1940, which promotes "Seeing All of Hawaii by Plane or Steamer".

http://timetableimages.com/ttimages/ha40b.htm

In 1941, Inter-Island Airways changed their name to Hawaiian Airlines. This was the year, HA phased out all of their Sikorsky S-38 and S-42 amphibious aircraft and converted the entire fleet to Douglas DC-3 land plane service.

And HA still flies today.
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Old Jun 17, 12, 7:37 am
  #1167  
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Boneyard

2A

You should have posted pictures of "the world's largest air force" - the military graveyard. Tours at http://www.pimaair.org/view.php?pg=16
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Old Jun 17, 12, 1:57 pm
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The equivalent widebody scrapping location at Kemble in the UK is not located in the desert (as we don't have them) but, on the contrary, in one of the National Park-equivalents (an "Area of Outstanding Natural Beauty"), among rolling fields and thatched-cottage villages which could be (and sometimes are) straight out of some English Tourist Board brochure.

http://maps.google.co.uk/?ll=51.6689...,312.57,,0,8.9

Here's the view from the country road alongside, when the Google car was passing there were a couple of Air India A310s awaiting breaking up, among others. In the view from overhead there are a couple of 747s, plus a whole lot of 146s scattered around the field.

http://maps.google.co.uk/?ll=51.6708...02105&t=h&z=16
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Old Jun 18, 12, 8:26 am
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Originally Posted by WHBM View Post
The equivalent widebody scrapping location at Kemble in the UK is not located in the desert (as we don't have them) but, on the contrary, in one of the National Park-equivalents (an "Area of Outstanding Natural Beauty"), among rolling fields and thatched-cottage villages which could be (and sometimes are) straight out of some English Tourist Board brochure.

http://maps.google.co.uk/?ll=51.6689...,312.57,,0,8.9

Here's the view from the country road alongside, when the Google car was passing there were a couple of Air India A310s awaiting breaking up, among others. In the view from overhead there are a couple of 747s, plus a whole lot of 146s scattered around the field.

http://maps.google.co.uk/?ll=51.6708...02105&t=h&z=16
Very interesting! And not one cactus (cacti?) to be seen!
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Old Jun 18, 12, 8:38 am
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Originally Posted by jlemon View Post
Very interesting! And not one cactus (cacti?) to be seen!
The only cacti I know of over here are the ones in pots on our kitchen windowsill !

It's curious that Air India sent their scrap aircraft over to the UK, because all the ocean ships and big ferries that are life-expired over here are generally sailed (sometimes even towed) on a long journey right round to India to be scrapped on an open beach over there.
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