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Old Timer's Airline Quiz and Discussion.

Old Timer's Airline Quiz and Discussion.

Old Aug 24, 2017, 9:57 am
  #11386  
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Originally Posted by jrl767
I can claim N144S (vintage 1952; older than me!) as my Southern Airways Martin 404
interesting tidbit -- less than a year after I rode SO 816 (which was the MEM - Tupelo (TUP) - Columbus (Golden Triangle Regional, GTR) - Tuscaloosa (TCL) - ATL milk run) on N144S in May 1977, this ship operated the last piston-engine flight in revenue service for a U.S. airline (SO 753, 30 Apr 1978, Atlanta to Gadsden AL and return)
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Old Aug 24, 2017, 10:56 am
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in May 1977, this ship operated the last piston-engine flight in revenue service for a U.S. airline (SO 753, 30 Apr 1978, Atlanta to Gadsden AL and return)
It's curious that the last such flight was not by one of the better-regarded (and later built) piston aircraft, like a DC-6B or a Convair 440, but by the rather disowned Martin (especially for its 202 predecessor). Southern was also the only one of the secondary "local service" carriers to never buy a mainstream turboprop aircraft, and stuck with (secondhand) pistons right up to deregulation. Couldn't they get any credit ?
[British] bus companies ... I don't know that any others took to the air though
Another classic one was Ted Hillman, who had a large bus network in East London and Essex. He then started (again with all the De Havilland types we have mentioned) cheap flights to Paris, Brussels, etc, competing with the established Imperial Airways. He was of course able to organise the bus links from the East London airfields into London. When London Transport was created in 1934 he took the money from his bus routes being bought out and invested in a substantial DH89 fleet. A Freddie Laker of his day, it was said he treated his pilots like bus drivers, they even had similar uniforms. He suddenly died, and Hillman was merged with other airlines by an investment house to form the pre-war British Airways, which itself was merged with Imperial to form BOAC.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hillman%27s_Airways
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Last edited by WHBM; Aug 24, 2017 at 2:34 pm
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Old Aug 24, 2017, 12:17 pm
  #11388  
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Originally Posted by WHBM
It's curious that the last such flight was not by one of the better-regarded (and later built) piston aircraft, like a DC-6B or a Convair 440, but by the rather disowned Martin (especially for its 202 predecessor). Southern was also the only one of the secondary "local service" carriers to never buy a mainstream turboprop aircraft, and stuck with (secondhand) pistons right up to deregulation. Couldn't they get any credit ?
I believe Southern acquired quite a few secondhand aircraft including DC-9-10 equipment (from Delta and Eastern, I think). I also seem to recall that SO replaced their Martin 4-0-4 equipment by and large with the much smaller Swearingen Metro II commuter propjet (the passenger reaction to the Metro must have been interesting if one was used to flying on board the much roomier Martin).

As for the good old DC-6B, wasn't United the last major U.S. air carrier to operate the type in domestic scheduled service on the San Francisco - Reno - Elko - Ely - Salt Lake City run? Of course, this was probably back around 1969-1970 with Southern continuing to operate the 4-0-4 after UA had retired their last DC-6B.....

Last edited by jlemon; Aug 24, 2017 at 1:26 pm Reason: clarification
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Old Aug 24, 2017, 1:09 pm
  #11389  
 
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More info re Oldest Aircraft and DUB!

Originally Posted by WHBM
Nicely filmed link showing what was going on. I bet it's a bit of a handful to manage. Must have been a while ago at Dublin airport with those 747s parked around. And I see they took off from runway 29, the old short runway on the north side I always thought was just for small prop aircraft - until one afternoon my CityJet 146 to London City took off from it. I looked up the details, and it was actually a bit longer than the London City runway!
Glad to hear you had a chance to experience Dublin's 11/29 runway - because it is in effect toast. It will be eliminated because Dublin's new north parallel runway is already under construction and scheduled to be in service in 2020; see attached illustration.


Originally Posted by WHBM
For scheduled flights, me too. G-AMOO, Cambrian Airways, Liverpool to Isle of Man. 25 minute hop, 4 engines. It was one of the earliest Viscounts, built 1953, originally with BEA. It was also my first flight ever.
Been told that I should follow you folks and be referring to my oldest aircraft flown in on a scheduled commercial flight. Coincidentally, this was also my first flight ever! It was a Monday in October 1950 Aer Lingus flight EI-154
Dublin dep 1215 Northolt arr 1415, returning a few days later EI-157 dep 1515 arr 1715, both in a shiny unpainted DC3. This was well before LHR existed but unfortunately too late to experience Croydon.

As to the Viscount, just after Aer Lingus received their first 701 they ran it down from DUB-SNN to display at an airshow there. No idea what date or even year except that the day-trip return flight (and free airside airshow admission!) was offered for 1.10s.0d except that I was allowed to buy a ticket and travel alone!

Since first making the above post I have come across a 1950 picture (attached) of an Aer Lingus DC3 at Dublin. This was back in the days when Aer Lingus had a policy of polishing their planes rather than incur the weight penalty of painting them.

For the record, the DC3, EI-ACF pictured below, was damaged beyond repair on 1st January 1953 near Birmingham Elmdon UK in a wheels-up crash landing caused by engine failure due to fuel starvation when both engines were mistakenly fed from and emptied the right main tank. (There were no fatalities abd minimal injuries).
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Last edited by TemboOne; Aug 26, 2017 at 8:37 pm
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Old Aug 25, 2017, 9:53 am
  #11390  
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Good Morning, All!

And a good morning it is, too, since the internet is actually up and working with enough juice that I'm able to access not only the OTAQ&D but also this reply window - after waiting almost 10 minutes for it to come open. Pray it also posts.

Here in Denali we've had one driver break his leg and two others depart early due to a serious accident in their family. In an effort to help out, I've "taken one for the team" as it were by temporarily relocating to Toklat where there is no internet. My stint there is now done as we've now moved on to a new bid, allowing me to return to the front country.

My absence likely would've occurred anyway as word is the internet was completely down for about ten days. The IT folks have gotten it up and running again but - like a cold engine with a bad carburetor - it's sputtering and apparently will continue to do so through the remainder of this season. We're told we can expect a totally new and more modern set up next season. This one is 8 years old.

In any event, it's clearly best that I limit my participation - especially with regard to posting and answering questions - until my return from Australia in mid-October. The season ends for me in early September and then I'm off to Australia at which point I expect to have consistently good enough internet connections that I can at least try my hand at answering questions.

Thanks to all of you for making the OTAQ&D the great thread that it is!
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Old Aug 25, 2017, 10:14 pm
  #11391  
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the discussion upthread on a region of the world I have yet to visit -- and particular the picture of the steam locomotive -- reminded me that one of the first books I remember reading was Carveth Wells' "Six Years In The Malay Jungle" ... the author was an Assistant Professor of Civil Engineering, who in 1913 secured a two-year appointment as a Railway Surveyor for the Crown Agents for the Colonies

the book is is based on his diaries and notes, and is around 250 pages with pictures; it was published in 1923, when my father was two years old ... I suspect he may have enjoyed it as a child, and brought it home for his eight-year-old son from his parents' house in Chicago after they passed away

I read it to my son when he was probably six, and I also remember talking three or four of my fourth-grade classmates into "helping" me with a book report by acting out a couple of the author's more amusing stories

there are many mentions of railways and boats, but unsurprisingly none of aircraft
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Old Aug 27, 2017, 8:04 am
  #11392  
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Effects of Tropical Storm Harvey on Houston's Airports

If you are thinking about flying into one of Houston's two commercially served airports today, I would highly recommend making alternative travel plans due to severe flooding now taking place in the Houston area caused by Tropical Storm Harvey.

According to flightview.com, it appears that virtually all arriving flights into Houston Bush Intercontinental have been cancelled. It also looks like United has essentially shut down their IAH hub due to the storm. One of the two access roads into IAH is impassable due to flooding.

And across town over at Houston Hobby? HOU is completely shut down due to the runways being unusable. It appears that flooding has closed Hobby. I cannot remember HOU ever being closed due to flooding even back in 2001 when Tropical Depression Allison produced very severe flooding in Houston. I was living in the Houston area at the time and witnessed this situation first hand.

Allison was very bad in Houston. It appears that Harvey will be worse.

Meantime, over here in the Lafayette area, we have been on the eastern periphery of the storm. We have experienced torrential tropical squalls with lots of lightning but have not had any flooding issues yet. As some of you may recall, our home was flooded here just over a year ago. We hope and pray that we do not have to go through this situation again, and our thoughts and prayers are with the people in Texas who are being affected by Harvey.
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Old Aug 27, 2017, 12:48 pm
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Exclamation All our thoughts and prayers from Canada are also with Texas

Originally Posted by jlemon
Meantime, over here in the Lafayette area, we have been on the eastern periphery of the storm. We have experienced torrential tropical squalls with lots of lightning but have not had any flooding issues yet. As some of you may recall, our home was flooded here just over a year ago. We hope and pray that we do not have to go through this situation again, and our thoughts and prayers are with the people in Texas who are being affected by Harvey.
We can't ever begin to imagine what you folks down in the Lone Star State are going through. CNN told us at lunch time that some areas have had 44 INCHES of rain with another two feet possible! It's just unimaginable.

If we got that in snow up here it would be chaos - but we could shovel and plough it in time - and it would stay outdoors - so long as we shovelled the roof as well.

Water however gets in everywhere - and even with pumps the liquid just has nowhere to go.:-:
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Old Aug 28, 2017, 8:20 am
  #11394  
 
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Greetings all from the land of frozen tundra, 1500 miles north of London, thanks to a three hours in a foodless BA A320 (thank you BA Chief Exec Alex Cruz for starting charging way beyond what the remaining food and drink options are worth, whilst doubling the fares as well on a monopoly route) and then quite a bit of driving further north still, on pleasantly clear roads through the forests. Conscious the weather is not at all on the scale of the storm in the Gulf of Mexico, and it’s not quite frozen yet, but grey, rainy, and summer has certainly finished.

Originally Posted by jrl767
the discussion upthread … an Assistant Professor of Civil Engineering, who in 1913 secured a two-year appointment as a Railway Surveyor for the Crown Agents for the Colonies … it was published in 1923
He quite possibly knew my grandfather, who pursued a similar course, getting various two-year assignments around the world. I have on the wall at home his steamship ticket from London to Brisbane, Australia, in 1908, SS Oroya http://www.simplonpc.co.uk/PSNC1.html#anchor902611 , taking 8 weeks - in an open berth ! He was a significant figure in locomotive engineering (I have his professional certificates as well, signed by some prominent notables of the era), and went to Australia to set up a sugar mill in Queensland, which included a substantial private railway to move the cane from the fields to the mill. Also before WW1 he had done contracts in Nigeria and South America, and visited all continents, quite a novelty then.

Crown Agents was an interesting and surprisingly practical UK government department, who arranged several things for “the colonies”. One was to act as a hiring agency for the various professional jobs available, typically for these two year “tours of duty”, and another was to act as purchasing agent from major UK industries for all the mainstream requirements, such as that railway locomotive. That whole Australian sugar mill equipment was shipped out from Britain.
a couple of the author's more amusing stories
I have to say I never knew anyone who went through the colonial process who didn’t end up with the most amazing fund of stories.
there are many mentions of railways and boats, but unsurprisingly none of aircraft
Back on thread, for this is just how various pioneer UK aircraft types ended up all round the world. De Havilland’s wooden-frame aircraft were shipped out to Canada (where the lineage continues with the DHC Dash 8), Australia, New Zealand, etc, all the pioneer local airlines started off obtaining their aircraft in the 1920s-30s in this way, courtesy of contacts and orders through Crown Agents. Sent out by sea, with local assembly.

Last edited by WHBM; Aug 28, 2017 at 8:28 am
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Old Aug 28, 2017, 1:53 pm
  #11395  
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Originally Posted by WHBM
... what is the oldest airliner we have each flown in, and who comes in with the oldest. Join in, everyone.
Originally Posted by jrl767
... registration numbers that I haven't committed to memory ...
research has revealed these:
  • Fairchild 24R46A, NC77645, vintage 1947 -- owned by a USAF colleague who was one of my Reserve project sponsors at Wright-Patterson AFB over about a three-year period; I don't know the history of this particular aircraft, and while the type indeed saw airline service, a ~20-min flight off the grass strip at New Carlisle OH in Aug 1991 certainly doesn't count ; he moved to the Seattle area ~1994 after retiring, and I believe he flew 737s for AS for awhile ... I thought he brought the airplane out here, but it's now showing as registered to a Florida owner)
  • de Haviland DHC-2 Beaver, N1018F, vintage 1954 -- Kenmore Air, Seattle Lake Union (LKE) to Victoria Inner Harbour (YWH) last month
  • Douglas DC-6 (USAF C-118), 53-3274, vintage 1955 -- space-available hop in Mar 1973, Andrews AFB (ADW) - Eglin AFB (VPS) - Peterson Field (COS)
  • de Haviland DHC-3 Otter (turbine conversion), N707KA and N50KA, both vintage 1956 -- YWH-LKE (Apr and Jul 2017, respectively)
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Old Aug 31, 2017, 10:29 am
  #11396  
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Originally Posted by jrl767
31. The Buenos Aires to Santiago route is served nonstop by eleven airlines, each operating jet equipment. The jets were built by five different manufacturers. Each airline operates only a single jet type on this route. Identify each of the five jets and match it with the airline(s) that operates it.

BUE<-->SCL caravelle: how about LAN Chile
VC-10: not BOAC, not British United, based on "But close!" I figure it's gotta be BCAL

LAN is correct as is British United. On the latter, when my tiny reptilian brain saw the BR airline code, I immediately thought B-Cal.
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Old Aug 31, 2017, 10:37 am
  #11397  
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Good Morning, folks -

I'm in Fairbanks about to head down to the park to close out the season for this year. A week from today I'll be comfortably ensconced in a First Class suite aboard a Qantas A380 winging southwest to Australia. I won't be home in a proper sense until late October.

Given the ongoing difficulties experienced by the internet down in the park this summer, I am going to pull the remainder of my unanswered questions to resubmit at a later time when I'll have consistent internet access - much less any internet access.

In the meantime, our friend jemon has a scintillating set of new questions waiting in the wings. This should be fun!

As always, I encourage one and all of you to join in the fun and give a try at submitting a few questions of your own. Even if it's only a set of 5-10, we always welcome the diversity.

And now - Hi Ho, Hi Ho - it's off to work I go!
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Old Aug 31, 2017, 11:36 am
  #11398  
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Originally Posted by Seat 2A
Good Morning, folks -

I'm in Fairbanks about to head down to the park to close out the season for this year. A week from today I'll be comfortably ensconced in a First Class suite aboard a Qantas A380 winging southwest to Australia. I won't be home in a proper sense until late October.

Given the ongoing difficulties experienced by the internet down in the park this summer, I am going to pull the remainder of my unanswered questions to resubmit at a later time when I'll have consistent internet access - much less any internet access.

In the meantime, our friend jemon has a scintillating set of new questions waiting in the wings. This should be fun!

As always, I encourage one and all of you to join in the fun and give a try at submitting a few questions of your own. Even if it's only a set of 5-10, we always welcome the diversity.

And now - Hi Ho, Hi Ho - it's off to work I go!
Indeed I do! And now that the severe weather threat posed by Tropical Storm Harvey has passed, at least here in south central Louisiana, I shall be submitting my first set from an extensive list of new quiz items in the very near future. Please stay tuned! And, of course, should anyone have some quiz items to submit, please do so!

BTW, Harvey did not produce any severe flooding here in LFT area although the National Weather Service as well as our local TV weathermen issued dire forecasts on a number of occasions. The main threat here was the floodwater potential concerning our local rivers and bayous. Thankfully, it did not happen and I firmly believe we really dodged a bullet. Had Harvey made landfall about 100 miles further east on the Louisiana coast, I believe there would have been a very high probability of catastrophic flooding in our local area much like the current situation in Houston and the Beaumont/Port Arthur area over in Texas.
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Old Sep 1, 2017, 4:34 pm
  #11399  
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Time to return to the OTAQ&D with a new set of quiz items....

Please limit your response to no more than three quiz items at a time so that all may participate. Thanks!

Here we go.....

1. It's 1959 and you are in Chicago where you've just finished a project. Now it's time to go have some fun! So you're off to San Antonio where you will rendezvous with good friends and then drive to the Big Bend country of west Texas for a float trip down the mighty Rio Grande River. You've found a dinner flight departing Chicago Midway airport at 6:00 pm that will get you into SAT by 9:00 pm. Two intermediate stops will be made en route. Identify the airline, the two stops in the order in which they will be made and the aircraft type you'll be flying on. ANSWERED

2. The float trip down the Rio Grande was a big success and quite enjoyable as well. However, now it's time to get back to work and that means flying to New York City for a meeting. You're back in San Antonio and have found a flight departing SAT at 7:45 am that arrives at Idlewild International Airport at 3:45 pm. You will enjoy both breakfast and lunch on this flight which makes two stops en route. Name the air carrier, the two stops in order and the equipment. ANSWERED

3. Now it's 1961 and you're back in Texas.....Fort Worth, to be exact. You need to attend a meeting in L.A. and have found a nonstop flight from Fort Worth to Los Angeles which departs GSW at 7:15 pm and arrives at LAX at 9:15 pm. Identify the airline operating this flight as well as the aircraft type. ANSWERED - Delta and American operating a DC-8 on an interchange flight between ATL and LAX via GSW.

4. In 1964, this Asian airline stated it was operating "Rolls-Royce Service". Name the air carrier in question and explain just what "Rolls-Royce Service" was. ANSWERED

5. This Asian airline was operating an extensive scheduled helicopter service in 1966. Thirteen destinations were served by helicopter from the air carrier's hub. Identify the air carrier, the helicopter type utilized on all flights and the hub airport. ANSWERED

6. Also in 1966, this U.S. based airline made the following statements in a print ad:

Everything's new but the sky we fly.

"NEW NEIMAN-MARCUS ATTIRE. Stewardesses, pilots, ground crewmen, ticket handlers - all are attractively uniformed by Neiman-Marcus."

Name the air carrier that ran this ad. ANSWERED

7. Once more in 1966, this airline was operating direct, no change of plane service from San Juan (SJU) to Mexico City (MEX). The actual schedule varied depending on the day of the week but twice a week three intermediate stops were made en route. Identify the air carrier, all three stops in order and the equipment operated on the service. ANSWERED

8. It's 1967 and you are in Boston. You need to travel to Chicago and have found an afternoon departure that makes three stops en route. You'll depart BOS at 5:35 pm and arrive at ORD at 9:46 pm. Name the airline, all three stops in order and the aircraft type you'll be flying on. ANSWERED

9. In late 1968, this U.S. based air carrier made the following statement in it's system timetable:

ALL BOEING 737 JET SERVICE BEGINNING JANUARY 1, 1969

Identify the airline that made this statement. ANSWERED

10. Now it's 1968 and you are in Paramaribo, Suriname. You need to travel to New York City and have found a direct flight which operates twice a week departing at 9:55 am and arriving JFK at 5:38pm. Three stops are made en route. Name the airline operating this flight as well as all three stops in order and the equipment. ANSWERED

11. In 1970, this air carrier was promoting direct connecting service from Kingston, Jamaica to Los Angeles with the service being offered twice a week. The first flight made one intermediate stop en route to the connecting city. The second flight operated nonstop from the connecting city to Los Angeles. There was a 45 minute time interval in the connecting city between the two flights which were both operated with the same aircraft type. Identify the airline, the intermediate stop on the first flight, the connecting city and the aircraft type. ANSWERED

12. Southwest Airlines began operating their flights with a ten minute turns in 1972. What was the primary reason for WN instituting this shorter turn time for their Boeing 737-200 aircraft? ANSWERED

13. If you wanted to fly on board a Lockheed L-188 Electra out of Port au Prince, Haiti in 1973, what airline would you call? ANSWERED

14. In 1979, this air carrier was operating nonstop service from Guadalajara to two destinations in the western U.S. Both flights were operated once a week and the same aircraft type was flown on each flight. Name the airline, the two destinations in the U.S. and the equipment.

15. In 1981, this air carrier was operating nonstop jet service from New York City once a week to both Cancun and Cozumel in Mexico. The same equipment was operated on both flights. Identify the airline, the airport both of these flights departed from and the aircraft type. ANSWERED

More new quiz items to follow......

Last edited by jlemon; Sep 18, 2017 at 11:54 am Reason: answer updates
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Old Sep 1, 2017, 7:21 pm
  #11400  
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most gratified to hear that you escaped the worst of Harvey's ravages

Originally Posted by jlemon
2. The float trip down the Rio Grande was a big success and quite enjoyable as well. However, now it's time to get back to work and that means flying to New York City for a meeting. You're back in San Antonio and have found a flight departing SAT at 7:45 am that arrives at Idlewild International Airport at 3:45 pm. You will enjoy both breakfast and lunch on this flight which makes two stops en route. Name the air carrier, the two stops in order and the equipment.
2- I'll guess this was Braniff International, operating a Lockheed Electra II turboprop with stops at Dallas Love (DAL) and Washington National (DCA)

Originally Posted by jlemon
3. Now it's 1961 and you're back in Texas.....Fort Worth, to be exact. You need to attend a meeting in L.A. and have found a nonstop flight from Fort Worth to Los Angeles which departs GSW at 7:15 pm and arrives at LAX at 9:15 pm. Identify the airline operating this flight as well as the aircraft type.
3- my first thought for GSW-LAX in 1961 was a Delta 880, but the four-hour block time definitely suggests otherwise ... how about American with a DC-6
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