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Old Timer's Airline Quiz and Discussion

Old Timer's Airline Quiz and Discussion

Old Jun 11, 12, 6:09 pm
  #1126  
 
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Originally Posted by WHBM View Post
I'll just add (I really feel I'm trespassing in a "US airline" thread here) regarding the BV-234 Chinook used out to the North Sea oil rigs, that the way this worked, and actually still does, was that crews got together in Aberdeen, the major commercial airport, and were shuttled by chartered aircraft up to Sumburgh, to connect there to helicopters out to the rigs at sea. The helicopter of choice was the Sikorsky S-61N, holding about 22-25 passengers, while the aircraft most used for many years was the BAe748, known for some reason in Canada as the Hawker, and pretty unknown in the USA, a twin turboprop with 44 seats. These were in use by British Airways on these oil charters, also by BA on their scheduled runs on the same route, by independent carrier Dan-Air, who did a lot of this work, and others. So one 748 connected into two choppers, but there was always a lot of hanging about at Sumburgh putting one planeload into two helicopters (which might be one having to do two trips), or consolidating up a planeload on the return.

The whole advantage of the Chinook was that it was equally sized with the 748, at 44 seats, so was efficient. Aberdeen to Sumburgh was too far for helicopter travel so you always needed the aircraft leg and the helicopter leg, but it fitted efficiently. I know some of you guys are far more knowledgeable about helicopter ops than I am, but this was the nearest to true airliner-sized operations with helicopters that we have ever come in Europe.
Ah, WHBM, this is truly an international thread (not just U.S.) and your presence here is most welcome....

And you are correct, sir! As you and perhaps others know, I work for a very large helicopter operator that has worldwide operations flying over 300 rotorcraft serving the oil and gas industry in the North Sea and elsewhere (such as the Gulf of Mexico).

These days, our largest, late model helicopter types are the Sikorsky S-92A and Eurocopter EC-225 (the successor to the AS-332L series "Super Puma" family). Both of these twin engine rotorcraft are flown by two (2) pilots and configured with nineteen (19) passenger seats. And there is a reason for the 19 pax configs: 20 or more pax seats would then require having a flight attendant on board here in the U.S. as well as other parts of the world.
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Old Jun 11, 12, 9:54 pm
  #1127  
 
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Originally Posted by jlemon View Post
Ah, WHBM, this is truly an international thread (not just U.S.) and your presence here is most welcome....

And you are correct, sir! As you and perhaps others know, I work for a very large helicopter operator that has worldwide operations flying over 300 rotorcraft serving the oil and gas industry in the North Sea and elsewhere (such as the Gulf of Mexico).

These days, our largest, late model helicopter types are the Sikorsky S-92A and Eurocopter EC-225 (the successor to the AS-332L series "Super Puma" family). Both of these twin engine rotorcraft are flown by two (2) pilots and configured with nineteen (19) passenger seats. And there is a reason for the 19 pax configs: 20 or more pax seats would then require having a flight attendant on board here in the U.S. as well as other parts of the world.
Wow, you guys are amazing!

WHBM: That BAe 748 you mentioned was also known back in the day as the Hawker Siddney 748? If so, I believe that was a very popular turboprop in use in Europe and the UK. It had Rolls Royce Dart engines, yes? Didn't UK carriers like BEA operate them?
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Old Jun 12, 12, 8:02 am
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Originally Posted by tonywestsider View Post
That BAe 748 you mentioned was also known back in the day as the Hawker Siddney 748? If so, I believe that was a very popular turboprop in use in Europe and the UK. It had Rolls Royce Dart engines, yes? Didn't UK carriers like BEA operate them?
Properly called the Avro 748 . Lovingly referred to as the "Budgie" .

Reasonably successful both in the UK and overseas. BEA never had any but British Airways had a few in the Highland division, Dan-Air were the biggest passenger operator but most of the survivors ended up on night mail runs. Still a number in Canada, both passenger and freight; pretty much all gone elsewhere - few in Africa I believe.

Aaaaah, Darts. Or should that be Owwww?
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Old Jun 12, 12, 8:02 am
  #1129  
 
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Originally Posted by tonywestsider View Post
Wow, you guys are amazing!

WHBM: That BAe 748 you mentioned was also known back in the day as the Hawker Siddney 748? If so, I believe that was a very popular turboprop in use in Europe and the UK. It had Rolls Royce Dart engines, yes? Didn't UK carriers like BEA operate them?
In addition to WHBM's response, I'll just chime in here as well.....

The Hawker Siddeley HS 748 was operated by a handful of airlines here in the U.S. including Cascade Airways and Air Illinois. I seem to recall that Aeronaves de Mexico also operated the type. The HS 748 remains in current operation with Air North in Canada (out of Whitehorse in the Yukon) and perhaps with several other Canadian operators.

British Aerospace then stretched and improved the HS 748. This variant was the BAe ATP model. A notable U.S. operator of the ATP was Air Wisconsin which operated the aircraft in United Express colors principally out of the ORD UA hub. Wings West, operating as American Eagle on the U.S. west coast, ordered the ATP but never took delivery of the aircraft.

BAe then announced they would further improve the ATP with the Jetstream 61 variant. However, I do not believe the Jetstream 61 ever made it to the marketplace as this program was apparently cancelled.
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Old Jun 12, 12, 8:50 am
  #1130  
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Originally Posted by miniliq View Post
I'll take a crack at two of them --
3. That would be AAs Very Important Traveler program -- although some argue that TI had a loyalty program earlier.
5. A drinking "fraternity" started by WWII pilots. There were over 20 riddles asked of prospective new members. and although the answers are innocuous the questions are salacious and probably not appropriate for this forum.
4. I was a member of the Eastern FF program from its inception but can't for the life of me remember the upgrade rules.
Thanks guys,
I made most of my miles domestically (on Delta, AA, and Eastern). I look forward to further interaction

1. Delta had to dip their wings when they flew over Monroe LA - home of the founder.

2. In the Delta SLC club, you could not use a laptop as recently as 20 years ago, it was for relaxation, not work (other than the conference rooms which were free)

3. The AA VIT. It was great, I dated a gate supervisor in college who made me one. I flew student standbye and got immediately upgraded to first.

4. On Eastern's (like Deltas Flying Col), you could upgrade as many as they ad seats available.

5. The turtle club did start as WW 2 pilots, but went into airlines where you would ask the stew (or she you) "if ou were a turtle?". You had to answer "you bet your sweet ... I am". If they could not answer (due to standing next to a olde fogy) they would have to buy you a drink when landed. One of the questions was "what does a man do standing, a dog on three legs and a woman sitting (and the caveat that you had to ave a clean mind). The answer was sake ands
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Old Jun 12, 12, 9:01 am
  #1131  
 
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Originally Posted by Wally Bird View Post
Properly called the Avro 748 . Lovingly referred to as the "Budgie" . BEA never had any but British Airways had a few in the Highland division
BEA indeed never had any 748s, firstly because they had a huge Viscount fleet that progressively got handed down to the short runs (which BA did, eventually, convert to 748s), and secondly because BEA had bought a few of a competing same-sized type that came along at the same time, the Handley Page Herald. This was another 50-seat turboprop, that looked more similar to the F27 because it was high wing. One of its features was a pronounced wing dihedral that looked like both the wings were pointing upwards at 45 degrees - well, bit of an exaggeration, but it was certainly noticeable. Handley Page only built some 50 of them, several made it to Canada and South America but I think I'm correct that none got onto the US register. Rolls-Royce Dart engines again, what a hit that product was for Rolls.
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Old Jun 12, 12, 3:11 pm
  #1132  
 
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Hello BeatCal, welcome to this little discussion. Do you have more of these interesting little facts ?

Originally Posted by BeatCal View Post
1. Delta had to dip their wings when they flew over Monroe LA - home of the founder.
I'm aware of Delta's origins here (well, we all have to start somewhere). Now, interestingly, when London Heathrow is on easterlies, aircraft from main departure runway 09R turn left or right, but never go straight ahead, right overhead where the old Hounslow Heath airfield used to be, from which BA's original predecessor, AT&T, did their first commercial flight in 1919 (as repeated at the start of a recent brilliant BA television commercial). So all of BA will actually dip wings right over that original location as well !

As the TV commercial probably didn't show in the USA, and all old aircraft buffs should see it, here it is

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XozHLoqwp_4

5. The turtle club ..... The answer was sake ands
I think there's a bit of a typo here (unless the answer is even more bizarre than I believed) and the correct answer is "shake hands".
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Old Jun 12, 12, 5:43 pm
  #1133  
 
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Originally Posted by tonywestsider View Post

WHBM: That BAe 748 you mentioned was also known back in the day as the Hawker Siddney 748? If so, I believe that was a very popular turboprop in use in Europe and the UK. It had Rolls Royce Dart engines, yes? Didn't UK carriers like BEA operate them?
Indian Airlines also used them extensively in the 1980s, when I was there. IIRC they were built under license by Hindustan Aeronautics.
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Old Jun 12, 12, 9:01 pm
  #1134  
 
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Originally Posted by WHBM View Post
As the TV commercial probably didn't show in the USA, and all old aircraft buffs should see it, here it is
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XozHLoqwp_4
Fantastic advert!

Originally Posted by Track View Post
Indian Airlines also used them extensively in the 1980s, when I was there. IIRC they were built under license by Hindustan Aeronautics.
Thanks everyone for chiming in on the HS748. I seem to remember that Indian Airlines flew them (somewhere found in Jane's All the World's Aircraft). I also remember the BAe ATP that jlemon was talking about. Dramatically underperforming plane is what I remember criticism from.

And BeatCal, please post more questions. You've got everyone's interest!
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Old Jun 13, 12, 6:48 am
  #1135  
 
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OK, the first airline operator of the Avro 748 (what it was called then) operated in 1962, from a base which only had a grass runway (and for some years afterwards), probably the last time any new type of airliner started service from such. Which airport ?
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Old Jun 13, 12, 8:00 am
  #1136  
 
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Originally Posted by WHBM View Post
OK, the first airline operator of the Avro 748 (what it was called then) operated in 1962, from a base which only had a grass runway (and for some years afterwards), probably the last time any new type of airliner started service from such. Which airport ?
Lympne aka Ashford International .

I used that service, sometimes with 748s sometimes DC-3s ^ . It was one of those cheapie London-Paris[sic] air-rail deals which dumped you at a railway station miles from Paris. Beauvais with Skyways, Le Touquet with BUA, forget which one Silver City used.

Happy days.
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Old Jun 13, 12, 3:11 pm
  #1137  
 
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Silver City also used Le Touqet.
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Old Jun 14, 12, 2:03 pm
  #1138  
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Originally Posted by WHBM View Post


I think there's a bit of a typo here (unless the answer is even more bizarre than I believed) and the correct answer is "shake hands".
I need to read what seri types
It was shake hands. Miss those days. Young cute nice stews who loved to date passengers and most all passengers were gentlemen or ladies

Interesting about BA. Wonder if true for others. By the way, I don't think Delta does it anymore
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Old Jun 14, 12, 9:01 pm
  #1139  
 
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Originally Posted by WHBM View Post
BEA indeed never had any 748s, firstly because they had a huge Viscount fleet that progressively got handed down to the short runs (which BA did, eventually, convert to 748s), and secondly because BEA had bought a few of a competing same-sized type that came along at the same time, the Handley Page Herald. This was another 50-seat turboprop, that looked more similar to the F27 because it was high wing. One of its features was a pronounced wing dihedral that looked like both the wings were pointing upwards at 45 degrees - well, bit of an exaggeration, but it was certainly noticeable. Handley Page only built some 50 of them, several made it to Canada and South America but I think I'm correct that none got onto the US register. Rolls-Royce Dart engines again, what a hit that product was for Rolls.
So based on WHBM's post above, I am going to pose a question(s) that is hopefully, a interesting one that I'm pretty sure a number of you will rush to answer:

1.) Identify another airliner of a similar size, which resembled the Handley Page Herald, or for that matter, the F27, which came from the same era?

2.) What country was this plane made?

3.) What were the powerplants utilized for this plane?

4.) What U.S. airline flew this plane and in which part of the country?
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Old Jun 15, 12, 4:46 am
  #1140  
 
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1) The answer MAY be the Antonov An 26, although it entered service in Russia about 10 years after the F-27.
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