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Old Timer's Airline Quiz and Discussion.

Old Timer's Airline Quiz and Discussion.

Old Aug 19, 2017, 3:33 pm
  #11371  
 
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More re Air Travel and Malaya

[QUOTE=WHBM;28705472]

Nice little trip for a DC3. Like most of the Malayan DC3s, it was ex-RAF immediately postwar, taken from the fleet assigned to South East Asia in WW2, which never was brought back. 9V-BAN was the onetime KG607 in the RAF, built early 1944. Now Mr WHBM Senior, RAF Navigator "for the duration", after his stint in Europe on Halifax bombers, was sent out to "Burma" in 1943 on DC3s, a trip which started off in Assam in India, and progressively moved forward across all of Burma and into Thailand and ultimately Singapore. I see KG607 was assigned to his squadron, air drops to the ground troops, that sort of thing. I hope you found it had been well looked after.

Yes, 9V-BAN was actually in impeccable condition, particularly considering it's vintage, and even more so now that I'm aware of it's RAF history; thank you! I actually had a friend fly down from MKZ in 1966 to meet at SIN when I arrived from HNL on PR101/501 and after a couple of days we flew up to MKZ. I think that I may have been the only one pleased to be on the DC3 instead of the air-conditioned F27! I actually managed to dredge up a picture of 9V-BAN which I'll attach (note the folks sitting in the shade of the wings/tail!)

There's a few pics of VR-SCC kicking around in my files. I'll try to attach them. I do have one where it's on a taxiway following a BOAC Comet 4C!

Malacca, halfway between KL and Singapore, is possibly a bit too close to both to justify much air service nowadays, especially with the new KLIA airport being well to the south of the city.

Have to agree with you here regarding getting KLIA to Malacca but from SIN Changi it's a lot more complicated for arriving passengers to get to MKZ than the "old days". Very few inbound travellers at Changi can find it an easy task figuring how get there. A few times in Malacca I actually took the taxi service (Teksi Melaka) up to KL to meet friends living just off Imbi Road and also over in PJ.

Our Far East office is in KL, and I've made a few trips there. There's quite a substantial suburban electric train service, but very little long distance. There's almost no trace of anything historic in the city, with one exception, that the old central railway station which has a little museum, with this wonderful mannekin dressed up as a stereotypical European officer of past times.

I do remember the KL railway station so well - and from what I can discover it looks just as spectacular now as fifty+ years ago. Apart from that there is (was?) the government building and clock tower on Jalan Raja near the Cricket Club. Only other area to make an impression were KL's Lake Gardens.

I'm also attaching an early picture of a Sumpitan Emas!
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Last edited by TemboOne; Aug 19, 2017 at 9:14 pm
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Old Aug 22, 2017, 10:56 am
  #11372  
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Good Morning All!

Thought I'd check in as I'm finally back home following an epic one and a half week journey to northern California as well as the Lake Tahoe region of Nevada. Flights included first class on an United A320 from MSY to IAD, first class on an United B777-200 from IAD to SFO and coach on an United Express/SkyWest CRJ200 from SFO to MRY as well as extended legroom seats in coach on three AA flights including an American Eagle/Mesa CRJ900 from MRY to PHX, an American A321 from PHX to DFW and an American B737-800 from DFW to MSY.

And then there were the driving experiences: five days in a new Audi A4 from the SF Bay Area to Lake Tahoe to Yosemite National Park and back to the Bay Area as well as four days in a new BMW M6 Gran Coupe convertible in the Monterey area including a jaunt down to Big Sur and back. Plus, I had the opportunity to test drive both the new Alpina B6 and the new performance version of the BMW M4 on 17 Mile Drive while attending Monterey Car Week and the 67th annual Concours d'Excellence auto show at the Lodge in Pebble Beach as a guest of BMW North America.

Further details to follow once I catch my breath......

Last edited by jlemon; Aug 23, 2017 at 8:24 am
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Old Aug 22, 2017, 1:54 pm
  #11373  
 
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Originally Posted by TemboOne
I'm also attaching an early picture of a Sumpitan Emas!
Nice selection of what seem to be wholly British subjects. All the DC3s ("Dakotas" to anyone from Britain) seem to be ex-RAF ones, even the railway locomotive was built in Glasgow. BOAC Comet 4s were not around for long, just 1959-66, the last ran at much the same time as the last Britannia. They were sold off as the first VC10s came on stream, but just one was retained as a ground trainer at Heathrow for many years after, in full livery, and there are a couple of photos around of what should be impossible, a BOAC 747 and a BOAC Comet 4 side-by-side.

Any news on #11363 , S2A ?
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Old Aug 23, 2017, 9:30 am
  #11374  
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Originally Posted by WHBM

Any news on #11363 , S2A ?
I am attempting to contact Seat 2A in the wilds of Alaska and have the feeling he is still experiencing a real challenge with regard to his internet service......
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Old Aug 23, 2017, 12:14 pm
  #11375  
 
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I'm sure we look forward to Seat 2A's return when the Internet allows. I'm just off to a place 62 degrees north (by BA A320), almost but not quite as far up as he is in Alaska. We'll see how the web connection compares there !

Meanwhile, it's been suggested that an interesting topic to discuss among all here is what is the oldest airliner we have each flown in, and who comes in with the oldest. Join in, everyone.

Shall I kick off ? Mine is a De Havilland DH83 Fox Moth, which an enterprising pair of chaps used to operate off the beach at Southport in the North of England. This would be about 1970. G-ACEJ was built in 1933, a typical De Havilland wood-and-canvas product, a light feederliner. 6 seats in a cabin, 3 facing 3, the pilot was up behind in an open cockpit (many were later glazed in, but ours wasn't), and could look down through an opening into the passenger cabin. Maximum speed about 80 knots on a good day. They did about 15 minute flights around the neighbourhood. The pilot owned it, his mate was the groundman, necessary for many things but particularly as engine start was a good strong hand swing. It always started first time. Both men were ex-RAF WW2, of course.

Every evening it was flown back to Blackpool airport, visible across the estuary, probably a 5 minute flight. The groundman had to drive their support truck back round, which probably took well over an hour.

Fox Moths got far and wide across the British Empire, there were a good number in Canada (it was the start of the industry which now builds the De Havilland Dash 8 in Toronto), and there are plenty of pictures of them in Africa, Asia, Australia and New Zealand. Unfortunately more than one was eaten beyond repair by termites.

Here she is, still around. Must see if I can get another ride some day.
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Old Aug 23, 2017, 1:03 pm
  #11376  
 
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Originally Posted by WHBM
Meanwhile, it's been suggested that an interesting topic to discuss among all here is what is the oldest airliner we have each flown in, and who comes in with the oldest. Join in, everyone.
Ford Trimotor, on an excursion flight by the EAA. Theirs is tail number N8407, built in 1929. In the U.S. it's fairly easy to get a ride in it, because they tour it all over the country.
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Old Aug 23, 2017, 2:09 pm
  #11377  
 
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DH84 Dragon at EIWT! A plane with history!

Originally Posted by WHBM
I'm sure we look forward to Seat 2A's return when the Internet allows. I'm just off to a place 62 degrees north (by BA A320), almost but not quite as far up as he is in Alaska. We'll see how the web connection compares there !

Meanwhile, it's been suggested that an interesting topic to discuss among all here is what is the oldest airliner we have each flown in, and who comes in with the oldest. Join in, everyone.

Shall I kick off ? Mine is a De Havilland DH83 Fox Moth, which an enterprising pair of chaps used to operate off the beach at Southport in the North of England. This would be about 1970. G-ACEJ was built in 1933, a typical De Havilland wood-and-canvas product, a light feederliner. 6 seats in a cabin, 3 facing 3, the pilot was up behind in an open cockpit (many were later glazed in, but ours wasn't), and could look down through an opening into the passenger cabin. Maximum speed about 80 knots on a good day. They did about 15 minute flights around the neighbourhood. The pilot owned it, his mate was the groundman, necessary for many things but particularly as engine start was a good strong hand swing. It always started first time. Both men were ex-RAF WW2, of course.

Every evening it was flown back to Blackpool airport, visible across the estuary, probably a 5 minute flight. The groundman had to drive their support truck back round, which probably took well over an hour.

Fox Moths got far and wide across the British Empire, there were a good number in Canada (it was the start of the industry which now builds the De Havilland Dash 8 in Toronto), and there are plenty of pictures of them in Africa, Asia, Australia and New Zealand. Unfortunately more than one was eaten beyond repair by termites.

Here she is, still around. Must see if I can get another ride some day.
Congratulations! That Fox Moth is one interesting bird! Sort of reminds me of some of the old cars we saw on Downton Abbey where the chauffeur sat out in the open and the passengers were in an enclosed cab! Actually rode in a few Tiger Moths around 1950-51 but have no idea which or when.

For this discussion I'll offer the attached pic of EI-AFK at Weston Aerodrome (EIWT) in Leixlip, Co. Kildare, Ireland.

During the period 1950-53 it was piloted by Capt. Darby Kennedy who flew it off the grass at Weston and did pleasure flights over Dublin City. I had the pleasure of riding in this countless times, sometimes for the ten bob fare and sometimes as reward for being part of the "gang" who helped push it out of the hangar!

Eventually it was sold to Aer Lingus who re-registered it as EI-ABI and kept it restored and current as a historical representation of their first aircraft.

In addition to the picture I'll try to attach a link to EI-ABI in it's current configuration doing a flight from Dublin Airport to Trim Co. Meath and back; enjoy! Please note however there are more than this one clip on youtube!


Attached Images    

Last edited by TemboOne; Aug 23, 2017 at 2:29 pm Reason: adding youtube link
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Old Aug 23, 2017, 3:29 pm
  #11378  
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Oldest Airliner

Scheduled: Well, it was either a Martin 4-0-4 operated by Southern Airways from Memphis (MEM) to Huntsville (HSV) in the mid 1960's or a de Havilland Heron operated by Swift Aire from Los Angeles (LAX) to San Luis Obispo (SBP) via an intermediate stop at Santa Maria (SMX) in the late 1970's. I'm not sure just which airplane was the older of the two.

Non-scheduled: Curtiss C-46 Commando operated by the Confederate Air Force (now known as the Commemorative Air Force) on a local flight from Santa Barbara (SBA) during the early 1990's. Although perhaps better known for military and cargo use, I believe the C-46 did see scheduled passenger service in the past.
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Old Aug 23, 2017, 3:53 pm
  #11379  
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I have been away from my logbook for a week as we have been on an eclipse-watching road trip in Idaho, so there is a bit of research needed into registration numbers that I haven't committed to memory ... that said, I have also been on the EAA Ford Tri-Motor, and I can claim N144S (vintage 1952; older than me!) as my Southern Airways Martin 404
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Last edited by jrl767; Aug 24, 2017 at 9:48 am
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Old Aug 23, 2017, 4:34 pm
  #11380  
 
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Bonus question. Any guesses at the SMT logo on the Fox Moth tailfin.
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Old Aug 23, 2017, 5:26 pm
  #11381  
 
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TWA 049 Constellation "Star of Switzerland" N90831 (built 1944) on an LGA-MDW-LAX flight in 1953.
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Old Aug 23, 2017, 7:26 pm
  #11382  
 
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If we want specifically to consider scheduled service, for me it would be a Vickers Viscount. Although Viscount production began earlier, it was one of those that came to United through the acquisition of Capital, so I'd guess that it dated to about 1956.
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Old Aug 23, 2017, 10:22 pm
  #11383  
 
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SMT = (I cheated!)

Originally Posted by WHBM
Bonus question. Any guesses at the SMT logo on the Fox Moth tailfin.
I believe the logo means "Scottish Motor Traction" - as per the attached link.

https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/wiki.php?id=154250

It appears that the original G-ACEJ was partially destroyed in a collision in 1982 and was reconstructed using some salvaged components and subsequently re-registered in 1986 and reflown in October 1994 when a new C of A was issued!

Last edited by TemboOne; Aug 23, 2017 at 11:04 pm Reason: updated correcteddata
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Old Aug 24, 2017, 7:41 am
  #11384  
 
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a link to EI-ABI in it's current configuration doing a flight from Dublin Airport to Trim Co. Meath and back
Nicely filmed link showing what was going on. I bet it's a bit of a handful to manage. Must have been a while ago at Dublin airport with those 747s parked around. And I see they took off from runway 29, the old short runway on the north side I always thought was just for small prop aircraft - until one afternoon my CityJet 146 to London City took off from it. I looked up the details, and it was actually a bit longer than the London City runway !
I believe the logo means "Scottish Motor Traction" - as per the attached link.
Yes, SMT, an absolute pioneer of 1930s Scottish aviation, to the Islands and across the Irish Sea, run by a fascinating chap called John Sword. There's a great book about the operation called "Sword in the Sky" (with a very nice colour painting of the whole fleet, Fox Moth foremost, on the front cover). Sword had a substantial business also running buses and car dealerships, eventually the largest of both in Scotland, and the airline was an extension of the bus business, but it was sold off after a couple of years. The buses got nationalised but kept the SMT name for many years afterwards, and the GM/Vauxhall car dealership was finally sold not too long ago; they all kept that diamond logo that is on the Fox Moth.

If we want specifically to consider scheduled service, for me it would be a Vickers Viscount.
For scheduled flights, me too. G-AMOO, Cambrian Airways, Liverpool to Isle of Man. 25 minute hop, 4 engines. It was one of the earliest Viscounts, built 1953, originally with BEA. It was also my first flight ever.

Last edited by WHBM; Aug 24, 2017 at 8:47 am
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Old Aug 24, 2017, 9:17 am
  #11385  
 
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Originally Posted by WHBM
Yes, SMT, an absolute pioneer of 1930s Scottish aviation, to the Islands and across the Irish Sea, run by a fascinating chap called John Sword. There's a great book about the operation called "Sword in the Sky" (with a very nice colour painting of the whole fleet, Fox Moth foremost, on the front cover). Sword had a substantial business also running buses and car dealerships, eventually the largest of both in Scotland, and the airline was an extension of the bus business, but it was sold off after a couple of years. The buses got nationalised but kept the SMT name for many years afterwards, and the GM/Vauxhall car dealership was finally sold not too long ago; they all kept that diamond logo that is on the Fox Moth.
A lot of bus companies had Traction in their name, such as the Yorkshire Woollen District Traction Company. I assume it dated back to the steam hauled trams of my father's youth. It was readily changed to Transport when Traction sounded a bit odd. I recall a Heavy Woollen District Traction Company too, but that might be a figment of memory. I don't know that any others took to the air though, it probably made more sense in Scotland than elsewhere.
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