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Old Timer's Airline Quiz and Discussion

Old Timer's Airline Quiz and Discussion

Old May 26, 12, 12:59 pm
  #1066  
 
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Originally Posted by Seat 2A View Post
An excellent assortment of queries to commence the weekend, jlemon. 1976 was a great time to fly!

1) If one wanted to fly in a jet from New York City to Elmira (ELM), what airline would you travel on and what type of equipment would you fly on? (Hint: this carrier operated two different jet aircraft types on the route).

I'm thinking it had to be Allegheny, with BAC-111 and DC-9-30 service. I did two Liberty Fare (Unlimited Mileage) tickets with AL but somehow never did manage a flight through ELM.

3) If one wanted to fly on a DC-10 between New York and Mexico City (MEX), what airline would you travel on?

That would be AeroMexico. The other airline operated L-1011s.

5) What airline flew nonstop between New York and Anchorage (ANC) with a DC-8 Super 60 series?

A little bit of a trick question here inasmuch as one could not purchase a domestic ticket aboard that DC-8-62. That's because it was flown by Japan Air Lines as part of a JFK-ANC-NRT trip. (Was Narita open in 1976 or was it still Haneda?)

9) If you wanted to fly nonstop from New York to Kingston, Jamaica (KIN) on a B707, what airline would you choose? (Hint: you would have your choice of two airlines operating the B707 nonstop on this route). Also, if you wanted to fly nonstop from New York to Kingston on a DC-9-30, what airline would you fly on?

Good question! I seem to recall BWIA operating 707s into Kingston, but then so did Lufthansa (I think...) It seems surprising that by 1976 LH would still be operating a 707 trans-Atlantic flight though, so I'm going to go with BWIA and Pan Am on the 707s with Air Jamaica providing the DC-9-30 service.

By the way, if any of you want to stroll down memory lane, some years ago I submitted a trip report of some travels I did during the summer of 1976. You'll find it HERE.
1) Correct! The AL nonstop or onestop (via BGM) service to ELM operated from LGA.

3) Correct! The AM DC-10 JFK-MEX service continued on to ACA. AM also flew a DC-8 on the route at this time. And EA was the L1011 operator flying nonstop JFK-MEX.

5) Correct! And it was a bit of a trick question as JAL could only carry conditional stopover traffic between JFK and ANC. Routing was JFK-ANC-HND so Haneda was served at this time in Tokyo and not Narita.

9) Very close! The airlines operating the B707 at this time JFK-KIN were Pan Am and Lufthansa. Depending on the day of the week, the actual Lufthansa routings were FRA-JFK-KIN-BOG-LIM-SCL or FRA-JFK-KIN-GYE-LIM so these LH flights continued on to South America. The flights on Pan Am were either nonstop or onestop via MBJ. BWIA did not fly JFK-KIN at this time. Air Jamaica also operated DC-8 Super 60 and B727-200 nonstop or onestop service (via MBJ) on the JFK-KIN route in addition to the JM D9S nonstop. And Eastern operated a B727-100 flight on a routing of EWR-BAL-MBJ-KIN-PAP-SJU.
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Old May 26, 12, 2:54 pm
  #1067  
 
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Seat 2A: Ah... it's good to see the old gang back at it! Indeed, it warms the cockles of my heart, what ever "cockles" are...

7.) What Caribbean airline branded its jets as “Fiesta Jets”? What kind of jets were they?

Alas cs57, it was not BWIA 727s. I believe those were called "Sunjets" but I'm not sure. I'll leave this one out there...


I'll take a wild guess here.....

7) Trans Caribbean Airways flying DC-8 series 50 and DC-8 super series 60 equipment. They were actually based in New York City and were acquired by AA which promptly disposed of the DC-8s.
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Old May 26, 12, 3:20 pm
  #1068  
 
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Originally Posted by jlemon View Post
And speaking of Mexico....

4) Manzanillo (ZLO). The entire length of the runway is just a stones throw away from the breaking surf of the Pacific Ocean.
I was about to post ACA, which is reasonably parallel to the beach but not nearly as close to the water as ZLO.
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Old May 26, 12, 3:35 pm
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Originally Posted by Seat 2A View Post
3.) Which two airlines operated IL-62s between New York and Montreal?

Per my OAGs, it was CSA and LOT. I don't show any Aeroflot service on this route, but that's not to say it never was. Do you have any further info. on Aeroflot's service, WHBM?
Your wish is my command ! Here's the only on-line link I can supply as evidence as the rest of my Aeroflot detail is just in print here, for quite some years Aeroflot stopped off at Montreal.

http://www.timetableimages.com/ttima...71/su71-04.jpg

1971, SU 303, Aeroflot IL62, Moscow-Montreal-New York
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Old May 26, 12, 4:08 pm
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Originally Posted by Seat 2A View Post

7.) What Caribbean airline branded its jets as “Fiesta Jets”? What kind of jets were they?

Alas cs57, it was not BWIA 727s. I believe those were called "Sunjets" but I'm not sure. I'll leave this one out there...
OK, I'll try Caribair using DC-9s -- at one point they served several destinations from SJU including MIA, CCS , and several Caribbean islands.
And yes, BWIA named their aircraft Sunjets, e.g Sunjet Barbados, etc.

Last edited by miniliq; May 26, 12 at 4:18 pm Reason: added info
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Old May 26, 12, 4:22 pm
  #1071  
 
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Originally Posted by Seat 2A View Post
Ah... it's good to see the old gang back at it! Indeed, it warms the cockles of my heart, what ever "cockles" are...

1.) What airport currently provides the longest runway in the U.S.?

Right on, miniliq, but that would be inclusive of U.S. Air Force bases as well. DIA's is the longest in North America at 16000 feet.
If you consider only paved runways you're right of course -- I was thinking of the lakebed runways at Edwards, one of which is 39,000 ft.
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Old May 26, 12, 4:33 pm
  #1072  
 
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Originally Posted by miniliq View Post
I was about to post ACA, which is reasonably parallel to the beach but not nearly as close to the water as ZLO.
As ZLO is so close to the ocean, I was wondering if Hurricane Bud had an effect on the airfield....

BTW, Bud has now weakened considerably after strengthening earlier to a Cat III storm.....
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Old May 26, 12, 6:01 pm
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Originally Posted by WHBM View Post
Your wish is my command ! Here's the only on-line link I can supply as evidence as the rest of my Aeroflot detail is just in print here, for quite some years Aeroflot stopped off at Montreal.

http://www.timetableimages.com/ttima...71/su71-04.jpg

1971, SU 303, Aeroflot IL62, Moscow-Montreal-New York
And I believe the story at the time was that these Aeroflot IL62s were equipped with spy cameras. I seem to recall these flights had a habit of straying off course over the U.S. with the route of flight then being over certain USAF bases......can anyone confirm?
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Old May 26, 12, 7:09 pm
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Originally Posted by jlemon View Post
And I believe the story at the time was that these Aeroflot IL62s were equipped with spy cameras. I seem to recall these flights had a habit of straying off course over the U.S. with the route of flight then being over certain USAF bases......can anyone confirm?
I regard this longstanding belief as a bit of an urban legend, in part engendered by the Soviet practice of having a glazed navigator's station in the extreme nose of many types, such as the Tu134/154. There are many better ways of getting good aerial shots than from a closely watched airliner way up at altitude. Besides which the most interesting USAF bases to the Soviets would be the ICBM sites in the Midwest, which no Aeroflot flights passed over.

Notwithstanding all the diplomatic traffic, particularly to the UN, Aeroflot started operations to New York only in 1967, when the IL62 first came on line, well after spy satellites became the optimum method of surveillance. What a shame you never saw a Tu114 in the USA.

In passing that Soviet navigators station, having been into one in a retired Tu134, provides a marvellous view which must be astounding in flight. It is entered from the flight deck, dead centre in the middle of the controls (being careful not to kick something as you step over them), squeezing down a couple of steps. Not quite as claustrophobic as it sounds. The entrance is covered by a loose curtain. On one occasion a hijacker entered the flight deck and grabbed the two pilots from behind, but was then instantly overwhelmed by the navigator suddenly storming out from behind that curtain !

http://www.airliners.net/photo/Untit...6197bdfedc78c4
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Old May 27, 12, 7:39 am
  #1075  
 
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Originally Posted by jlemon View Post
6) If one wanted to fly from New York to Beaumont/Port Arthur (BPT) in Texas in a jet with direct, no change of plane service, what airline would you travel on? Also name the aircraft type.
DL 201 using a 727; LGA-ATL-SHV-BPT -- sort of unusual routing -- not sure what generated the traffic.
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Old May 27, 12, 10:01 am
  #1076  
 
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Originally Posted by miniliq View Post
DL 201 using a 727; LGA-ATL-SHV-BPT -- sort of unusual routing -- not sure what generated the traffic.
6) Correct! DL 201 was specifically operated with a B727-200.

As for the traffic, it appears that milk runs (and this one had relatively few stops, of course) were the order of the day. For example, LGA-ATL probably had very little if any continuing pax traffic to SHV and especially to BPT. In turn, BPT most likely could not support a nonstop to/from ATL, so it was a tag route added on to the SHV service. I believe that Delta's service to BPT evolved into a routing of IAH-BPT-SHV-ATL flown with a D9S before being discontinued due to lack of traffic. DL Connection (ASA) re-entered the market some years later with BPT-ATL nonstops flown with a 50 pax CRJ but the service was cancelled due to lack of traffic once again (a local front page newspaper story at the time had the headline "Delta Leaves Again").

Many years ago, Southwest also attempted to serve BPT from DAL but their B737-200 service was quickly discontinued due to lack of traffic as well.

TTa/Texas Intl. flew DC-9 series 10 equipment into BPT but finally pulled out of the market thus leaving it to commuter air carriers operating small turboprop equipment.

These days, only UA Express serves BPT with Saab 340 turboprops operated by Colgan Air on the short hop over to IAH, although it appears that ExpressJet will replace Colgan Air later this summer on the route via the use of Embraer ERJ-135 and/or ERJ-145 regional jets.

Last edited by jlemon; May 27, 12 at 2:18 pm
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Old May 27, 12, 12:07 pm
  #1077  
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Regarding question #7: What Caribbean airline branded its jets as “Fiesta Jets”? What kind of jets were they?

OK, I'll try Caribair using DC-9s

Correct, miniliq!

I'll try a couple more here from jlemon...

2) What airline operated B747 service between New York and Milwaukee (MKE)?

That would be Northwest. So far as I know, United was the only other airline to operate widebodied aircraft into Milwaukee, with DC-10 service from Denver.

4) If you wanted to fly on a jet from New York to Amarillo (AMA) direct with no change of plane, what airlines would you fly on? Also name the aircraft types used on the route. (Hint: you would have your choice of two airlines).

Strictly a guess here, but let's go with American 72S and Braniff 727.

7) What airline flew direct from New York to Fort De France (FDF) in the Caribbean? Also name the aircraft type.

Let's go with an Air France 747. I seem to recall seeing some AF 747 flights down to the Caribbean showing all Y class service as well...

8) What airline operated B747 service between New York and Bermuda (BDA)?

I'm pretty sure Pan American used to fly a 747 on this route.
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Old May 27, 12, 2:01 pm
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Originally Posted by Seat 2A View Post
Regarding question #7: What Caribbean airline branded its jets as “Fiesta Jets”? What kind of jets were they?

OK, I'll try Caribair using DC-9s

Correct, miniliq!

I'll try a couple more here from jlemon...

2) What airline operated B747 service between New York and Milwaukee (MKE)?

That would be Northwest. So far as I know, United was the only other airline to operate widebodied aircraft into Milwaukee, with DC-10 service from Denver.

4) If you wanted to fly on a jet from New York to Amarillo (AMA) direct with no change of plane, what airlines would you fly on? Also name the aircraft types used on the route. (Hint: you would have your choice of two airlines).

Strictly a guess here, but let's go with American 72S and Braniff 727.

7) What airline flew direct from New York to Fort De France (FDF) in the Caribbean? Also name the aircraft type.

Let's go with an Air France 747. I seem to recall seeing some AF 747 flights down to the Caribbean showing all Y class service as well...

8) What airline operated B747 service between New York and Bermuda (BDA)?

I'm pretty sure Pan American used to fly a 747 on this route.
2) Correct! The NW operated B747 routing was JFK-MKE-MSP.

4) Braniff is correct; however, the other airline was TWA. And you are correct with your aircraft as well. BN operated a B727-100 with a routing of EWR-DCA-BNA-DFW-AMA while TWA operated a B727-200 with a routing of LGA-ORD-ICT-AMA-ABQ-LAX. The TW flight from LGA to AMA also had a meal service offered on every leg: Breakfast, lunch and a snack in both classes of service.

7) Air France is correct; however, the AF aircraft at this time was an Airbus A300B operated in an all Y configuration. Routing was JFK-PTP-FDF three days a week and nonstop JFK-FDF once a week.

8) Well, Pan Am was not flying between New York and Bermuda in the late winter of 1976. However, British Airways was.....but not with a 747. BA operated either the Boeing 707 or Vickers VC10 on a routing of JFK-BDA at this time. Eastern was flying between New York and Bermuda as well back then.....but the EA service was operated with B727-100 and B727-200 equipment with such routings as JFK-BDA and PHL-EWR-BDA. American was also flying the route with a B707 aircraft on a PHL-EWR-BDA routing....and the other AA flight operated JFK-BDA with a B747.

Great answers as usual from Seat 2A!

BTW, my fiancee and I are now making final preparations to depart to St. Maarten (SXM) early tomorrow morning via connections at DFW and MIA. Yep, we're talkin' AA here with upgrades already secured on the mainline 738 segments. We are off on yet another "bare boat" sailing adventure via a 46 foot catamaran from St. Maarten (actually the French side of the island, St. Martin) to St. Barts and Anguilla. And for the first time, I'm going to attempt to put together a trip report concerning our journey complete with photos of landing jet aircraft low over the beach at SXM! So stay tuned!

Hope everyone is having a great holiday weekend as well!

Last edited by jlemon; May 27, 12 at 2:20 pm
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Old May 27, 12, 4:00 pm
  #1079  
 
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Well, just one last question from my latest list remains unanswered.....

10) What airline operated a B707-320 (B3J) nonstop from Newark (EWR) to New York Kennedy (JFK) twice a week and where did this flight originate from?

This was one of those "cross town" flights. And once again, the timeline was February of 1976......

Any takers?
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Old May 27, 12, 4:51 pm
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Originally Posted by jlemon View Post
Well, just one last question from my latest list remains unanswered.....

10) What airline operated a B707-320 (B3J) nonstop from Newark (EWR) to New York Kennedy (JFK) twice a week and where did this flight originate from?

This was one of those "cross town" flights. And once again, the timeline was February of 1976......

Any takers?
Have to give it a try -- TWA from LAS. In 1974 they did five flights/wk from LAS-JFK, then LAS-EWR the other two days, using a B707 (and used a 747 to JFK on those same two days). I suspect that later they added JFK to the EWR run, but were probably not allowed to carry passengers just from EWR-JFK.
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