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Old Timer's Airline Quiz and Discussion

Old Timer's Airline Quiz and Discussion

Old Dec 14, 11, 10:09 am
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Originally Posted by BHL View Post

Two follow-on questions:

Before the nonstop flights began, which airline and aircraft provided through jet service between Hong Kong and Johannesburg?

Which California routes--begin and end points within the state--were served by scheduled flights using DC-8 aircraft? (Hint: there were at least five.)

Cheers!
Tough questions but fun to eventually learn of the answers.

You're right about McClain. 727-100. Sorry!

Braniff had tag end DC-8 service from Lima and probably other cities to LAX, continuing to SFO. That's not the answer to the question, though.
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Old Dec 14, 11, 10:42 am
  #92  
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Back in 1981 (Dec), I flew a US Air (old name for US Airways) pass from Austin to east of Mississipi River cities. I believe it was either $299 or $349 (don't recall which price) and one can fly as much as one wanted for 3 weeks. It was cheaper than a RT ticket from AUS-DTW. I went to FNT, ITH, RDU, MCO & one more place. I grew up about 50 miles from FNT so I went there for Christmas break and saw friends in the other places.

When I went to the travel agency, they had a hard time finding the pass. It turned out to be on page 15. No wonder they had a hard time finding it.

A very nice deal. AUS-DTW was approx $400 and the pass was cheaper. The only tax was the 10% excise tax built into the price.

I flew a wide variety of airplanes on the pass. Wish I remembered what ones at the time. Did alot of layovers in PIT in the old airport terminal.
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Old Dec 14, 11, 12:33 pm
  #93  
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Originally Posted by BHL View Post
Before the nonstop flights began, which airline and aircraft provided through jet service between Hong Kong and Johannesburg?

Which California routes--begin and end points within the state--were served by scheduled flights using DC-8 aircraft? (Hint: there were at least five.)
Good question. I'm pretty sure Cathay Pacific didn't serve JNB until later, so I'm thinking it has to be an airline out of South Asia. South Africa has a large Indian population, but I don't recall Air India ever flying there in years past. On the other hand, I recall seeing Malaysian Airlines flights into JNB, possibly with a DC-10. Same goes for Singapore Airlines - either of them might have operated through flights from JNB on to HKG.

United used to fly alot of DC-8s around California and I was fortunate to fly a few of them back in the 1970s. LAX-FAT-SFO on a DC-8-51 and LAX-SFO aboard a DC-8-61. My first ever flight on a DC-8-61 came aboard a Delta bird on the SAN-LAX route. I have also seen scheduled but never flown upon United DC-8s between SFO and OAK. United also used to operate a DC-8 between SFO and SMF. It continued on to DEN where I used to fly it between Denver and New York JFK on UA's noon departure.

Good call on those Laker VC10s, Wally Bird. Did they ever wear the Laker livery?

Last edited by Seat 2A; Dec 14, 11 at 4:50 pm
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Old Dec 14, 11, 12:36 pm
  #94  
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Originally Posted by chemist661 View Post
Back in 1981 (Dec), I flew a US Air (old name for US Airways) pass from Austin to east of Mississipi River cities. I believe it was either $299 or $349 (don't recall which price) and one can fly as much as one wanted for 3 weeks. It was cheaper than a RT ticket from AUS-DTW.
OK, that begs the question of which was the world's best unlimited airline pass that could be purchased by the public.

There was one once an airline that offered unlimited international first class for a month--anyone remembered who offered it and when? (It was also available in business and economy as well.)
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Old Dec 14, 11, 12:50 pm
  #95  
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Originally Posted by BHL View Post
In the UK, British United and British Caledonian flew the VC10.
Originally Posted by Wally Bird View Post
+ Laker.
I had to look this one up.

Laker's British United flew the VC10. And it was even more interesting to read that BUA briefly provided a VC10 for Sierra Leone Airways, although!

http://www.vc10.net/History/other_operators.html

Couldn't find a photo of it online anywhere--Seat 2A, do you have a postcard of it somewhere?
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Old Dec 14, 11, 1:07 pm
  #96  
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Originally Posted by BHL View Post
OK, that begs the question of which was the world's best unlimited airline pass that could be purchased by the public.

There was one once an airline that offered unlimited international first class for a month--anyone remembered who offered it and when? (It was also available in business and economy as well.)
That US Air pass had its origins with Allegheny Airlines when it was known as the Liberty Fare. I bought two of them back in the seventies and went crazy flying all those old BAC-111s and DC-9-30s. Eastern, Delta and National offered Unlimited Mileage fares. I remember spending $500.00 for one of these on Eastern back in 1980. I subsequently flew 105 flights a total of 104220 miles over the three week period of the pass.

National/PA offered a First Class version of its pass to passengers living in the US. Braniff offered a First Class unlimited pass as well, but you had to live or at least originate overseas and have a ticket cross referenced to the pass indicating such. I remember calling Braniff about it and giving serious thought to getting a passport and heading over to London.

As for unlimited international First Class, Wow! I hope it gets offered again!

BHL, I have no postcards of Laker VC10s and so far as I know none were ever produced. I'm going to be at an airline collectibles convention in January. It's been awhile but if any of the postcard collecting luminaries such as Fred Hems or producers such as Joerg Jaeggin or Udo Shaeffer show up, I'll have to ask them.

Last edited by Seat 2A; Dec 14, 11 at 1:36 pm
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Old Dec 14, 11, 1:44 pm
  #97  
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Originally Posted by Seat 2A View Post
National/PA offered a First Class version of its pass to passengers living in the US. Braniff offered a First Class unlimited pass as well, but you had to live or at least originate overseas and have a ticket cross referenced to the pass indicating such. I remember calling Braniff about it and giving serious thought to getting a passport and heading over to London.

As for unlimited international First Class, Wow! I hope it gets offered again!
Bingo!

Pan Am offered unlimited, systemwide, one-month passes in 1980 to celebrate its merger with National. First Class US$3,333 - Clipper Class $2,222 - Economy Class $1,111.

And that was in the days of seven-cart First Class meal service, caviar, cracked crab legs, and roti de vol... A certain (ahem) sightseeing itinerary netted 156,000 miles in a month, although it was possible to reach well over 200,000 if one were strictly aiming for miles. But no frequent flyer mileage accrued; that was a year before AAdvantage and Mileage Plus began.

(Before that, Pan Am had their FT System, which helped with seating, but no miles.)
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Old Dec 14, 11, 2:49 pm
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There was only one Laker VC-10, the prototype (G-ARTA) upgraded to airline standard. Laker leased it very quickly, perhaps immediately, to MEA of Lebanon as OD-AFA after which it returned to BUA.

I was almost(!) certain it did carry the Laker livery for a very short time, but it seems my memory has failed (again) as this site states that it did not. It was acquired by Laker in January 1968 and leased to MEA 5 days later so that looks right.

OK, strike Laker from the VC-10 list .

But while we're on the subject, check out this photo: http://www.vc10.net/Memories/Images/File0015.jpg !
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Old Dec 14, 11, 4:46 pm
  #99  
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Originally Posted by Wally Bird View Post
Those big engines totally ruin the aesthetics so handsomely provided by the twin RR Conways on each side. I have always considered the VC10 to be the most beautiful jetliner ever built and it is with considerable regret that I never managed a flight on one when I easily could have.
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Old Dec 14, 11, 7:59 pm
  #100  
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Originally Posted by Seat 2A View Post
Those big engines totally ruin the aesthetics so handsomely provided by the twin RR Conways on each side. I have always considered the VC10 to be the most beautiful jetliner ever built and it is with considerable regret that I never managed a flight on one when I easily could have.
Well, console yourself with this photo, one of the best: http://www.airliners.net/photo/BOAC/...C10/0227378/L/

And whilst on the topic of this iconic aircraft: BOAC operated Super VC10 service between Hong Kong and Johannesburg via Colombo and Seychelles. South African also offered 707 service with one stop in Seychelles.
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Old Dec 15, 11, 10:36 am
  #101  
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Originally Posted by Seat 2A View Post
Those big engines totally ruin the aesthetics so handsomely provided by the twin RR Conways on each side. I have always considered the VC10 to be the most beautiful jetliner ever built and it is with considerable regret that I never managed a flight on one when I easily could have.
Meh. Narrow and noisy as hell in the back. I spent many hours on those birds between Prestwick and JFK in the 1970s. The Comets were pretty on the outside too but I always thought the Caravelle was one of the most aesthetically pleasing ships. Had a couple of rides on them - actually in Finnair livery, too.
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Old Dec 15, 11, 1:40 pm
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Originally Posted by Gardyloo View Post
Meh. Narrow and noisy as hell in the back. I spent many hours on those birds between Prestwick and JFK in the 1970s. The Comets were pretty on the outside too but I always thought the Caravelle was one of the most aesthetically pleasing ships. Had a couple of rides on them - actually in Finnair livery, too.
I can certainly appreciate the difference between aesthetics vs. performance. Those huge wings and thirsty engines doomed the VC10 to a short life. From a passenger's perspective, I've never flown in Economy aboard a rear engined jet that wasn't noisy in the back. Numerous accounts by those who were sat in First Class consistently marveled over how quiet the VC10 was. So there's your problem - you were sitting in Coach!
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Old Dec 15, 11, 2:42 pm
  #103  
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Originally Posted by Seat 2A View Post
I can certainly appreciate the difference between aesthetics vs. performance. Those huge wings and thirsty engines doomed the VC10 to a short life. From a passenger's perspective, I've never flown in Economy aboard a rear engined jet that wasn't noisy in the back. Numerous accounts by those who were sat in First Class consistently marveled over how quiet the VC10 was. So there's your problem - you were sitting in Coach!
Sadly, true.

But the VC-10s were whisperjets compared to the Soviet knockoff, the IL-62. Thought the motors were going to occupy the window seat (oh wait, no windows back there) when they spooled up.
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Old Dec 16, 11, 1:54 pm
  #104  
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Originally Posted by BHL View Post
Pan Am offered unlimited, systemwide, one-month passes in 1980 to celebrate its merger with National. First Class US$3,333 - Clipper Class $2,222 - Economy Class $1,111.

And that was in the days of seven-cart First Class meal service, caviar, cracked crab legs, and roti de vol... A certain (ahem) sightseeing itinerary netted 156,000 miles in a month, although it was possible to reach well over 200,000 if one were strictly aiming for miles.
156,000 miles in a month! That must've been so much fun! Except for the 20 extra pounds I would have gained dining on 30 days worth of 7 course meals! Unfortunately back in 1980 I had neither the time or money to have taken advantage of that deal with PA, but I did manage something perhaps even better for approximately the same cost just a few years later.

In November 1984, United became the first and only airline to fly its own jets into each of the 50 states. There were no contract carriers dba United Express back then, it was United metal all the way. To promote this milestone, UA offered its Mileage Plus members the following deal:

Fly into or out of each of the 50 states in a set 50 day period and win a year of free unlimited First Class travel anywhere within the 50 states.

It wasn't a race, but rather just a matter of going out and doing it. I and 67 others did just that and in March 1985 United flew us all out to Chicago, put us up at the Westin and regaled us with a very nice awards ceremony. We were all given gold cards and a couple of boxes of write your own tickets with more of those if we ran out. Most people didn't but I sure did. Over the next year, I flew over 500000 miles, including 23 flights to Hawaii and even more to and from Alaska.

Back then, most domestic airlines still offered a fairly decent product up front and United's long distance First Class service was amongst the finest in the nation. The transcon flights were branded Ocean to Ocean, while Royal Hawaiian Service was the way to go to Hawaii. Macadamia nuts flowed in abundance, the Trader Vic's Mai Tais were some of the finest I've ever had, and the meal service was much more elaborate that the economy class meals being offered as First Class fare today. Check out this menu:

UNITED AIRLINES
Royal Hawaiian Service
Honolulu to San Francisco


Appetizer
Poached Hawaiian snapper fillet with a wine laced dill sauce

Salad Offering
Freshly tossed spinach leaves, Belgian endive and radiccio,
garnished with sliced ripe olives, water chestnuts and won ton strips.
Served with a choice of salad dressings


ROYAL HAWAIIAN ENTREE SELECTIONS

Roast Rack of Lamb

Our lamb rack is roasted in its natural juices and served with a minted herb sauce.
This favorite will be carved at your table. Accompaniments are
Normandy potatoes, broccoli florettes and baby carrots


Breast of Chicken Mauna Kea
Breast of chicken sauteed with shallots and white wine
served with Hawaiian papaya sauce laced with Madeira wine.
Accompaniments are rice pilaf and broccoli florettes.


Chef's Special Entree Selection
Today our chef suggests U.S. choice tenderloin of beef
topped with maitre d'hotel butter. Accompaniments are Normandy potatoes,
broccoli florettes and baby carrots.


Our Lighter Air Fare
Today's selection features a papaya half
filled with bay shrimp salad, garnished with fresh pineapple,
kumquat, a cherry tomato and a ripe olive.


A selection of warmed dinner rolls will be presented

Dessert

Ice Cream Bombe Royal

A delightful combination of rich French vanilla and sponge cake,
served with raspberry sauce and fine cookies.


Fresh Fruit Basket

* * * * * * * * *

Much of the service was from the trolley. Salads were tossed seatside and presented with a flourish of black pepper from a large wooden grinder. Surprisingly, I don't remember any of the roasts ever being overcooked. Portions were generally quite good and on a couple of occasions I remember asking for and receiving seconds. I had a great year in the air with no side effects from all the rich food given the many miles I walked throughout the all those airports.

Okay then, here's another question:

Name seven U.S. airlines that operated the Fokker F.28-1000/4000. (I can think of eight)
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Old Dec 16, 11, 4:57 pm
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[QUOTE=Seat 2A;17640215]156,000 miles in a month! That must've been so much fun! Except for the 20 extra pounds I would have gained dining on 30 days worth of 7 course meals! Unfortunately back in 1980 I had neither the time or money to have taken advantage of that deal with PA, but I did manage something perhaps even better for approximately the same cost just a few years later.

In November 1984, United became the first and only airline to fly its own jets into each of the 50 states. There were no contract carriers dba United Express back then, it was United metal all the way. To promote this milestone, UA offered its Mileage Plus members the following deal:

Fly into or out of each of the 50 states in a set 50 day period and win a year of free unlimited First Class travel anywhere within the 50 states.

It wasn't a race, but rather just a matter of going out and doing it. I and 67 others did just that and in March 1985 United flew us all out to Chicago, put us up at the Westin and regaled us with a very nice awards ceremony. We were all given gold cards and a couple of boxes of write your own tickets with more of those if we ran out. Most people didn't but I sure did. Over the next year, I flew over 500000 miles, including 23 flights to Hawaii and even more to and from Alaska.

Back then, most domestic airlines still offered a fairly decent product up front and United's long distance First Class service was amongst the finest in the nation. The transcon flights were branded Ocean to Ocean, while Royal Hawaiian Service was the way to go to Hawaii. Macadamia nuts flowed in abundance, the Trader Vic's Mai Tais were some of the finest I've ever had, and the meal service was much more elaborate that the economy class meals being offered as First Class fare today. Check out this menu:

UNITED AIRLINES
Royal Hawaiian Service
Honolulu to San Francisco


Appetizer
Poached Hawaiian snapper fillet with a wine laced dill sauce

Salad Offering
Freshly tossed spinach leaves, Belgian endive and radiccio,
garnished with sliced ripe olives, water chestnuts and won ton strips.
Served with a choice of salad dressings


ROYAL HAWAIIAN ENTREE SELECTIONS

Roast Rack of Lamb

Our lamb rack is roasted in its natural juices and served with a minted herb sauce.
This favorite will be carved at your table. Accompaniments are
Normandy potatoes, broccoli florettes and baby carrots


Breast of Chicken Mauna Kea
Breast of chicken sauteed with shallots and white wine
served with Hawaiian papaya sauce laced with Madeira wine.
Accompaniments are rice pilaf and broccoli florettes.


Chef's Special Entree Selection
Today our chef suggests U.S. choice tenderloin of beef
topped with maitre d'hotel butter. Accompaniments are Normandy potatoes,
broccoli florettes and baby carrots.


Our Lighter Air Fare
Today's selection features a papaya half
filled with bay shrimp salad, garnished with fresh pineapple,
kumquat, a cherry tomato and a ripe olive.


A selection of warmed dinner rolls will be presented

Dessert

Ice Cream Bombe Royal

A delightful combination of rich French vanilla and sponge cake,
served with raspberry sauce and fine cookies.


Fresh Fruit Basket

QUOTE]

It's when I read things like this that I become depressed about having missed out on the "golden era" of air travel. Just born too late!

Oh well, I will just have to hold my head up and enjoy CX premium classes I guess...perhaps one day the accouterments I enjoy today will also be highly regarded as a "golden age" of their own. Of course that just means that things will decline even further in the future. lol
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