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Old Timer's Airline Quiz and Discussion

Old Timer's Airline Quiz and Discussion

Old Aug 29, 16, 11:42 am
  #9931  
 
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2. Identify Pan Am’s shortest international flight departing from a U.S. gateway city. I’m looking for the destination and the aircraft type operating the flight.
Possibly Miami to Nassau with a 727.

9. Hamilton, Ontario has international flights to a single city. Identify the city, the airline providing the service and the aircraft type flown.
Think this might have been Nordair, operating to Pittsburgh with a 737.

10. Only one airline flies Boeing 707s from Miami to airports in the continental United States. Two cities are served. Identify the airline and the two cities served.
Possibly Northwest to Chicago and Minneapolis.

Last edited by WHBM; Aug 29, 16 at 4:17 pm
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Old Aug 29, 16, 12:29 pm
  #9932  
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Originally Posted by Seat 2A View Post
6. Allegheny and Eastern offer one-stop direct flights between Toronto and Philadelphia, but only this airline offers a nonstop flight via a single daily departure utilizing a larger plane than either AL or EA operate on their flights. Why, thereís even a snack served enroute! Identify the airline and aircraft operating this flight.
if memory serves, this was an Air Jamaica DC-8
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Old Aug 29, 16, 12:56 pm
  #9933  
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Originally Posted by Seat 2A View Post
1. Your job has you flying regularly between Dallas and Minneapolis. Braniff dominates the market with nine mostly daily flights - a morning and a midday nonstop along with seven multi-stop through flights. Normally you prefer BNís midday nonstop but alas, today you wonít be able to even get out of the office until noon. Consulting your OAG, you consider the options. HmmÖ whatís this? Mixed in amidst the nine BN departures is a single two-stop direct flight departing DFW at 2:45pm. Itís aboard an airline youíve heard of but have not yet flown upon. What the heck Ė book it, Danno! Identify the airline, the two intermediate stops and the aircraft operating this route.
again, if memory serves, the only other airline serving both DFW and MSP was Ozark ... they had a large DC-9 fleet (both -10 and -30); this route most likely saw the larger one

I'm pretty sure the first northbound stop would have been OZ's hub at St Louis (STL); after that, there are probably a half dozen candidates, so in deference to the rules I will throw a single mental dart at a map ... Cedar Rapids (CID)
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Old Aug 29, 16, 2:31 pm
  #9934  
 
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Originally Posted by Seat 2A View Post
Re. LAX-SFO service:

"Pan Am was flying two daily 747 departures (and also 707 service)"

Yes, but pre-deregulation wouldn't these PA offerings have been Conditional Stopover Traffic only? As such, they wouldn't have been available to the casual LAX-SFO traveler.

The year after deregulation, I flew upon my first 747SP via a Pan Am bird between SFO and LAX. The one way standby fare was $13.00.
Well, I did think about this....however, the OAG I referenced for this quiz item makes no mention of "No local traffic. Conditional stopover traffic permitted" specifically concerning these Pan Am flights. YMMV.......
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Old Aug 29, 16, 2:37 pm
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Originally Posted by Seat 2A View Post

THE TIMELINE FOR THE FOLLOWING QUESTIONS IS 1974
All questions referenced from a North American OAG

3. You’re flying from New York JFK to Curacao. You’ve flown this route many times before, always aboard a 707 or DC-8 of some type. Arriving at the gate, you’re shocked but thoroughly pleased to see the distinctive nose of a 747 parked just outside the huge plate glass windows. What airline will you be flying upon?

4. Your wonderful vacation at Isle Royale National Park comes to an inadvertent end when your business partner calls and asks if you could meet him in Denver ASAP to discuss the acquisition of a Colorado based chain of ski apparel stores. He’s even done a bit of legwork and found a two-stop direct flight departing from nearby Thunder Bay, Ontario early tomorrow morning (5:40am ) that will get you into Denver at 8:25am. Book it, buddy, and please set us up for a breakfast meeting at the Brown Palace Hotel at 10:00am. Now then, if you can just catch that last ferry of the day over to Thunder Bay… Identify the airline, the two stops and the aircraft you’ll be flying upon between YQT and DEN.
3. Sounds like American Airlines.

4. Let's go with North Central operating a DC9-30 on routing of Thunder Bay (YQT)-Duluth (DLH)-Minneapolis/St. Paul (MSP)-Denver (DEN).

Last edited by jlemon; Aug 29, 16 at 3:14 pm
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Old Aug 29, 16, 11:46 pm
  #9936  
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Originally Posted by WHBM View Post
2. Identify Pan Amís shortest international flight departing from a U.S. gateway city. Iím looking for the destination and the aircraft type operating the flight.

Possibly Miami to Nassau with a 727.

9. Hamilton, Ontario has international flights to a single city. Identify the city, the airline providing the service and the aircraft type flown.

Think this might have been Nordair, operating to Pittsburgh with a 737.

10. Only one airline flies Boeing 707s from Miami to airports in the continental United States. Two cities are served. Identify the airline and the two cities served.

Possibly Northwest to Chicago and Minneapolis.

Is it possible that you could be correct on all three questions?

Yes! Well done as always, WHBM! ^
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Old Aug 29, 16, 11:57 pm
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Originally Posted by jrl767 View Post
6. Allegheny and Eastern offer one-stop direct flights between Toronto and Philadelphia, but only this airline offers a nonstop flight via a single daily departure utilizing a larger plane than either AL or EA operate on their flights. Why, thereís even a snack served enroute! Identify the airline and aircraft operating this flight.

If memory serves, this was an Air Jamaica DC-8

1. Your job has you flying regularly between Dallas and Minneapolis. Braniff dominates the market with nine mostly daily flights - a morning and a midday nonstop along with seven multi-stop through flights. Normally you prefer BNís midday nonstop but alas, today you wonít be able to even get out of the office until noon. Consulting your OAG, you consider the options. HmmÖ whatís this? Mixed in amidst the nine BN departures is a single two-stop direct flight departing DFW at 2:45pm. Itís aboard an airline youíve heard of but have not yet flown upon. What the heck Ė book it, Danno! Identify the airline, the two intermediate stops and the aircraft operating this route.

Again, if memory serves, the only other airline serving both DFW and MSP was Ozark ... they had a large DC-9 fleet (both -10 and -30); this route most likely saw the larger one. I'm pretty sure the first northbound stop would have been OZ's hub at St Louis (STL); after that, there are probably a half dozen candidates, so in deference to the rules I will throw a single mental dart at a map ... Cedar Rapids (CID)

Well J, it would appear your memory still serves you fairly well. It has assisted you nicely in correctly identifying both Air Jamaica's DC-8 and Ozark's DC-9-30 as the aircraft of record in both of the above questions. As to the routing for question 1, St. Louis was indeed the first stop, however Cedar Rapids was not the next stop. That would be nearby Des Moines - undoubtedly your next choice were I to leave this out there. ^^
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Old Aug 30, 16, 12:02 am
  #9938  
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Originally Posted by jlemon View Post
3. Youíre flying from New York JFK to Curacao. Youíve flown this route many times before, always aboard a 707 or DC-8 of some type. Arriving at the gate, youíre shocked but thoroughly pleased to see the distinctive nose of a 747 parked just outside the huge plate glass windows. What airline will you be flying upon?

Sounds like American Airlines.

It is. ^

4. Your wonderful vacation at Isle Royale National Park comes to an inadvertent end when your business partner calls and asks if you could meet him in Denver ASAP to discuss the acquisition of a Colorado based chain of ski apparel stores. Heís even done a bit of legwork and found a two-stop direct flight departing from nearby Thunder Bay, Ontario early tomorrow morning (5:40am ) that will get you into Denver at 8:25am. Book it, buddy, and please set us up for a breakfast meeting at the Brown Palace Hotel at 10:00am. Now then, if you can just catch that last ferry of the day over to Thunder BayÖ Identify the airline, the two stops and the aircraft youíll be flying upon between YQT and DEN.

Let's go with North Central operating a DC9-30 on routing of Thunder Bay (YQT)-Duluth (DLH)-Minneapolis/St. Paul (MSP)-Denver (DEN).

Correct! Breakfast was served between Minneapolis and Denver. North Central always served up the best omelettes with potatoes O'Brien. ^
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Old Aug 30, 16, 8:56 am
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Originally Posted by Seat 2A View Post
Re. LAX-SFO service:

"Pan Am was flying two daily 747 departures (and also 707 service)"

Yes, but pre-deregulation wouldn't these PA offerings have been Conditional Stopover Traffic only? As such, they wouldn't have been available to the casual LAX-SFO traveler.
I was able to find an April 29, 1973 Pan Am system timetable listing 747 and 707 service between LAX and SFO. No mention is made concerning whether PA was able to transport local traffic on the route. Looking at the schedules, it appears they were able to do so but I'm not completely sure about this. Perhaps Pan Am was being disingenuous by listing this service.

Pan Am did fly some domestic service prior to deregulation; however, these routes primarily concerned Hawaii and Alaska to/from the west coast of the U.S., of course.
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Old Aug 30, 16, 9:33 am
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Originally Posted by Seat 2A View Post

THE TIMELINE FOR THE FOLLOWING QUESTION IS 1974
All questions referenced from a North American OAG

5. If you want to fly out of Vancouver aboard one of those new wide-bodied DC-10s, there’s only one airline and one city you can fly to. Identify both, if you please…
5. I do not think CP Air was operating the DC-10 at this time (although they did fly the series 30 in later years, of course). I was tempted to guess CP operating YVR-HNL with the airplane.....

However, I believe it was actually a U.S. based air carrier:

Western Airlines. The only way to fly!

If so, the destination was most likely LAX.
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Old Aug 30, 16, 10:34 am
  #9941  
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Originally Posted by Seat 2A View Post
8. Not counting flights originating from outside North America, Miami International enjoys Boeing 747 service from nine different cities operated by four different airlines. No two airlines offer service on the same route. Identify each of the cities and the airline that operates 747s on it.
ok, let's try to pick off the airlines first:

I think a couple of these were early 747 customers who didn't actually keep the type in their fleet much beyond 1974 (Delta, National); as for the others, one didn't bring their jumbos to MIA very much thereafter (United), but the other certainly did (courtesy of the "not outside North America" clue -- Air Canada)

now for nine destinations:
AC - Montreal (YUL), Toronto (YYZ)
DL - Atlanta (ATL), Chicago (ORD)
NA - Houston (IAH), Los Angeles (LAX), New York (JFK)
UA - Cleveland (CLE), Pittsburgh (PIT)
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Old Aug 30, 16, 10:55 am
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Originally Posted by jlemon View Post
I was able to find an April 29, 1973 Pan Am system timetable listing 747 and 707 service between LAX and SFO. No mention is made concerning whether PA was able to transport local traffic on the route. Looking at the schedules, it appears they were able to do so but I'm not completely sure about this. Perhaps Pan Am was being disingenuous by listing this service.

Pan Am did fly some domestic service prior to deregulation; however, these routes primarily concerned Hawaii and Alaska to/from the west coast of the U.S., of course.
Per my 1974 North American OAG, PA's flights on the SFO-LAX market - as well as Braniff's - are all denoted "CONDITIONAL STOPOVER TRAFFIC". I had always understood that to mean that someone who had arrived on an international ticket - or was about to depart on one - would be eligible to fly that route. Thus, someone flying from SFO to say, Manila, could fly down to LA, stop over, and then continue on a few days later.

Originally Posted by jlemon
5. If you want to fly out of Vancouver aboard one of those new wide-bodied DC-10s, there’s only one airline and one city you can fly to. Identify both, if you please…

I do not think CP Air was operating the DC-10 at this time (although they did fly the series 30 in later years, of course). I was tempted to guess CP operating YVR-HNL with the airplane.....

However, I believe it was actually a U.S. based air carrier: Western Airlines. The only way to fly! If so, the destination was most likely LAX.


Correct!

WA 751 YVR-LAX 1130a - 255p DC-10 Spaceship Luncheon Daily
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Old Aug 30, 16, 11:19 am
  #9943  
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Originally Posted by jrl767 View Post
8. Not counting flights originating from outside North America, Miami International enjoys Boeing 747 service from nine different cities operated by four different airlines. No two airlines offer service on the same route. Identify each of the cities and the airline that operates 747s on it.

Okay, let's try to pick off the airlines first:

I think a couple of these were early 747 customers who didn't actually keep the type in their fleet much beyond 1974 (Delta, National); as for the others, one didn't bring their jumbos to MIA very much thereafter (United), but the other certainly did (courtesy of the "not outside North America" clue -- Air Canada)

Now for nine destinations:

AC - Montreal (YUL), Toronto (YYZ)
DL - Atlanta (ATL), Chicago (ORD)
NA - Houston (IAH), Los Angeles (LAX), New York (JFK)
UA - Cleveland (CLE), Pittsburgh (PIT)


You are correct on all of the airlines. However, PIT and IAH were not served. The two missing cities were both served by the same airline - in addition to its other cities listed...
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Old Aug 30, 16, 12:25 pm
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9. Hamilton, Ontario has international flights to a single city. Identify the city, the airline providing the service and the aircraft type flown.

Think this might have been Nordair, operating to Pittsburgh with a 737.
I believe this was part of a commercial deal between Nordair and Stelco, the mainstream Canadian steel producer of the 1970s, to operate direct flights between Hamilton, site of the major Stelco facility, and Pittsburgh, as they had considerable commercial contacts with US Steel and others there.

Until this was agreed, Air Canada out of Toronto were apparently not interested, and many staff actually drove over the border to Buffalo NY and went from there, took a Stelco corporate flight, or even drove all the way. Air Canada probably never imagined anyone would ask for the route, then never imagined that Transport Canada would allow it, then thought it would be on a DC3 or something. But a 737 ? Bigger than AC's DC-9-30s ?

We are sustained here at London City by a similar commercial deal 40 years on, where the BA A318 flight to New York was underpinned by Barclays Bank buying 25% of the capacity for years ahead, which gave BA the commercial certainty to buy the A318s and get the service up and running. it's not 25% of every flight, but averaged over time. The American service from London Heathrow to off-hub Raleigh/Durham is similarly sustained by a long-term agreement with the SmithKline pharmaceuticals company.
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Old Aug 30, 16, 1:10 pm
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Originally Posted by WHBM View Post
I believe this was part of a commercial deal between Nordair and Stelco, the mainstream Canadian steel producer of the 1970s, to operate direct flights between Hamilton, site of the major Stelco facility, and Pittsburgh, as they had considerable commercial contacts with US Steel and others there.

Until this was agreed, Air Canada out of Toronto were apparently not interested, and many staff actually drove over the border to Buffalo NY and went from there, took a Stelco corporate flight, or even drove all the way. Air Canada probably never imagined anyone would ask for the route, then never imagined that Transport Canada would allow it, then thought it would be on a DC3 or something. But a 737 ? Bigger than AC's DC-9-30s ?

We are sustained here at London City by a similar commercial deal 40 years on, where the BA A318 flight to New York was underpinned by Barclays Bank buying 25% of the capacity for years ahead, which gave BA the commercial certainty to buy the A318s and get the service up and running. it's not 25% of every flight, but averaged over time. The American service from London Heathrow to off-hub Raleigh/Durham is similarly sustained by a long-term agreement with the SmithKline pharmaceuticals company.
And I am reminded of a good friend who is an aviation manager with a certain super-major oil and gas company that has a global presence. He was involved in negotiating a commercial deal for employee travel between Houston (IAH) and Amsterdam (AMS). There are only two air carriers operating nonstop service on the route, being KLM and United, of course. Negotiations were conducted with both airlines and it appeared UA had the upper hand with regard to pricing. Then my friend said, "But, United, you are operating a 767 on the route while KLM is operating a 747. It sure would be nice to have a larger aircraft on the service, especially as many of our employees are permitted to fly business class internationally." No problem, said UA, and then offered to operate a B777-200ER with a BusinessFirst cabin on the route. And so the deal was done.
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