Old Timer's Airline Quiz and Discussion.
Jun 20, 2016, 5:56 pm
#9436
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And speaking of good old Continental, here's another quick Bonus Question:
In early 1987, two different airlines not owned by Continental were operating jet equipment for CO domestically in the U.S. via respective code sharing agreements. Identify both air carriers as well as the jet aircraft type each operated.
In early 1987, two different airlines not owned by Continental were operating jet equipment for CO domestically in the U.S. via respective code sharing agreements. Identify both air carriers as well as the jet aircraft type each operated.
Jun 20, 2016, 6:22 pm
#9437
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 782
What about Emerald Airlines, with DC-9s on HOU-IAH?
Jun 20, 2016, 7:40 pm
#9438
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However, I wasn't quite sure when this occurred. Lo and behold, I found a photo of a Presidential/Continental Express BAe 146 dated April of 1987. So we shall call your answer correct!
And I have also now amended my bonus question to reflect that we are actually looking for three airlines that operated jet equipment for CO in early to mid 1987 via respective code shares.
Jun 20, 2016, 7:50 pm
#9439
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Correct! This was the "Houston Proud Express" shuttle service flown with DC-9-10 aircraft by Emerald Air for CO between Bush Intercontinental and Hobby back when Continental was running a dual hub operation in Houston with a large hub at IAH and a small hub at HOU. The Continental hub at Hobby did not last.....
So we are looking for one more airline here and the jet equipment it operated.....which was not a DC9 or BAe 146 or a regional jet manufactured by Canadair or Embraer.
So we are looking for one more airline here and the jet equipment it operated.....which was not a DC9 or BAe 146 or a regional jet manufactured by Canadair or Embraer.
Last edited by jlemon; Jun 21, 2016 at 7:46 pm Reason: added some clues concerning the aircraft
Jun 21, 2016, 12:53 am
#9440
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Jun 21, 2016, 3:33 am
#9441
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 782
I posted the final answers to this survey on June 27.
The westbound 707F went to Dallas - there is a big GM assembly plant in Arlington.
I just purchased a June 1, 1973 AA system timetable on Ebay for $9.25, including postage.
By 1973, AA had taken delivery of their initial widebody orders: 16 747s and 25 DC-10s. Unfortunately, there were not enough passengers to fill these aircraft, and within a few months, AA would take nine 747s out of service. This timetable represents the peak timeframe for AA's widebody fleet before deregulation - and it shows AA using widebodies on routes that you would not expect to see them on. There are a LOT of terrific trivia questions lurking in the pages of this timetable. Here are the first few:
1. In the late 1960s and early 1970s, several airlines resumed service at MDW (under pressure from Mayor Daley) to reduce congestion at ORD. In 1973, AA had four flights from MDW. All four flights went to the same destination. What was it?
Answered: DTW
2. In 1973, AA had nonstop service from Hartford to four cities. What were the four cities?
Answered. ORD, DTW, LAX, and JFK are correct, IAD and CLE were ruled out, and AA had nonstop service from BDL to PHL without traffic rights.
3. One of AA's eight flights from Hartford was flown with a 747. What was the final destination of AA's 747 Luxury Liner, and what was the 747's one enroute stop?
Answered: it stopped in JFK, and its final destination was SFO. ORD, LAX, and DTW were ruled out as intermediate stops, and LAX and SJU were not the 747's final destination.
4. AA was just a few months from moving from DAL to DFW. You could take DC-10 Luxury Liner nonstops from Dallas to eight cities. What were the eight cities?
LAX, ORD, SFO, ELP, LGA, IAD, and TUS are correct. JFK, SAN, PHX, ACA, PSP, STT, STX, MEX, SAT, DTW, AUS, OKC, BNA, SJU, PHL, BOS, LAS, EWR, STL, and TUL have been ruled out. PSP, STT, SJU, STX, and IAH were not served nonstop from DAL, and AA did not serve AUS or LAS at all in 1973. Seven identified, one to go.
The unidentified city was MEM.
5. Although AA's maintenance base has been in Tulsa for many years, you could take AA nonstop from TUL to just five cities. What were these cities?
Answered: ORD, DAL, BNA, OKC, and STL.
6. One of AA's 16 flights from TUL was operated by a DC-10 Luxury Liner. What was its final destination, and where was its lone enroute stop?
Nobody has attempted this question, but we ruled out DAL (in the DAL question above), so that leaves four choices for the intermediate stop. Anyone?
The DC-10's routing was TUL-OKC-LAX
7. Half of AA's nonstops from TUL were to one city - and it wasn't Dallas. What was it?
Answered: OKC
8. AA and General Motors had a close relationship for many years, although not as close as the relationship between United and Ford. American flew 707Fs from Detroit to three cities, one west of Detroit and the other two east of Detroit. All three cities had General Motors assembly plants (one of the cities had two GM assembly plants) and I'm sure much of the cargo on the 707Fs was rush shipments from GM's auto parts plants in southeast Michigan to the assembly plants. Where were the 707Fs' destinations?
Partly answered. The two eastbound 707s went to Boston, serving GM's Framingham assembly plant, and to JFK, serving GM's Linden and Tarrytown plants. STL and ORD have been ruled out; although eastbound 707F flights stopped in Chicago enroute from the West Coast to Detroit, westbound flights from Detroit did not. Chicago did not have a GM assembly plant, and the freight bound from Detroit to Chicago could be accommodated in the bellies of the 1x day 747, 2x day DC-10, and 13 707 / 727 flights from DTW to ORD.
By 1973, AA had taken delivery of their initial widebody orders: 16 747s and 25 DC-10s. Unfortunately, there were not enough passengers to fill these aircraft, and within a few months, AA would take nine 747s out of service. This timetable represents the peak timeframe for AA's widebody fleet before deregulation - and it shows AA using widebodies on routes that you would not expect to see them on. There are a LOT of terrific trivia questions lurking in the pages of this timetable. Here are the first few:
1. In the late 1960s and early 1970s, several airlines resumed service at MDW (under pressure from Mayor Daley) to reduce congestion at ORD. In 1973, AA had four flights from MDW. All four flights went to the same destination. What was it?
Answered: DTW
2. In 1973, AA had nonstop service from Hartford to four cities. What were the four cities?
Answered. ORD, DTW, LAX, and JFK are correct, IAD and CLE were ruled out, and AA had nonstop service from BDL to PHL without traffic rights.
3. One of AA's eight flights from Hartford was flown with a 747. What was the final destination of AA's 747 Luxury Liner, and what was the 747's one enroute stop?
Answered: it stopped in JFK, and its final destination was SFO. ORD, LAX, and DTW were ruled out as intermediate stops, and LAX and SJU were not the 747's final destination.
4. AA was just a few months from moving from DAL to DFW. You could take DC-10 Luxury Liner nonstops from Dallas to eight cities. What were the eight cities?
LAX, ORD, SFO, ELP, LGA, IAD, and TUS are correct. JFK, SAN, PHX, ACA, PSP, STT, STX, MEX, SAT, DTW, AUS, OKC, BNA, SJU, PHL, BOS, LAS, EWR, STL, and TUL have been ruled out. PSP, STT, SJU, STX, and IAH were not served nonstop from DAL, and AA did not serve AUS or LAS at all in 1973. Seven identified, one to go.
The unidentified city was MEM.
5. Although AA's maintenance base has been in Tulsa for many years, you could take AA nonstop from TUL to just five cities. What were these cities?
Answered: ORD, DAL, BNA, OKC, and STL.
6. One of AA's 16 flights from TUL was operated by a DC-10 Luxury Liner. What was its final destination, and where was its lone enroute stop?
Nobody has attempted this question, but we ruled out DAL (in the DAL question above), so that leaves four choices for the intermediate stop. Anyone?
The DC-10's routing was TUL-OKC-LAX
7. Half of AA's nonstops from TUL were to one city - and it wasn't Dallas. What was it?
Answered: OKC
8. AA and General Motors had a close relationship for many years, although not as close as the relationship between United and Ford. American flew 707Fs from Detroit to three cities, one west of Detroit and the other two east of Detroit. All three cities had General Motors assembly plants (one of the cities had two GM assembly plants) and I'm sure much of the cargo on the 707Fs was rush shipments from GM's auto parts plants in southeast Michigan to the assembly plants. Where were the 707Fs' destinations?
Partly answered. The two eastbound 707s went to Boston, serving GM's Framingham assembly plant, and to JFK, serving GM's Linden and Tarrytown plants. STL and ORD have been ruled out; although eastbound 707F flights stopped in Chicago enroute from the West Coast to Detroit, westbound flights from Detroit did not. Chicago did not have a GM assembly plant, and the freight bound from Detroit to Chicago could be accommodated in the bellies of the 1x day 747, 2x day DC-10, and 13 707 / 727 flights from DTW to ORD.
Last edited by JoeDTW; Jun 27, 2016 at 12:39 pm
Jun 21, 2016, 10:56 am
#9442
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3. One of AA's eight flights from Hartford was flown with a 747. What was the final destination of AA's 747 Luxury Liner, and what was the 747's one enroute stop?
ORD, LAX, and DTW have been ruled out as intermediate stops, and LAX and SJU were not the 747's final destination. This means the 747's intermediate stop was JFK....but where did it go after that?
Out of JFK? Let's go with SFO.
4. AA was just a few months from moving from DAL to DFW. You could take DC-10 Luxury Liner nonstops from Dallas to eight cities. What were the eight cities?
LAX, ORD, SFO, ELP, LGA, IAD, and TUS are correct. JFK, SAN, PHX, ACA, PSP, STT, STX, MEX, SAT, DTW, AUS, OKC, BNA, SJU, PHL, BOS, LAS, EWR, STL, and TUL have been ruled out. PSP, STT, SJU, and STX were not served nonstop from DAL, and AA did not serve AUS or LAS at all in 1973. Seven identified, one to go.
Hmm... let's go with... IAH
Thanks for these excellent questions, Joe. Here's hoping you have a big stack of old timetables begging future contribution to the OTAQ&D!
ORD, LAX, and DTW have been ruled out as intermediate stops, and LAX and SJU were not the 747's final destination. This means the 747's intermediate stop was JFK....but where did it go after that?
Out of JFK? Let's go with SFO.
4. AA was just a few months from moving from DAL to DFW. You could take DC-10 Luxury Liner nonstops from Dallas to eight cities. What were the eight cities?
LAX, ORD, SFO, ELP, LGA, IAD, and TUS are correct. JFK, SAN, PHX, ACA, PSP, STT, STX, MEX, SAT, DTW, AUS, OKC, BNA, SJU, PHL, BOS, LAS, EWR, STL, and TUL have been ruled out. PSP, STT, SJU, and STX were not served nonstop from DAL, and AA did not serve AUS or LAS at all in 1973. Seven identified, one to go.
Hmm... let's go with... IAH
Thanks for these excellent questions, Joe. Here's hoping you have a big stack of old timetables begging future contribution to the OTAQ&D!
Last edited by Seat 2A; Jun 21, 2016 at 11:30 am
Jun 21, 2016, 11:23 am
#9443
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And now it is time to close out this set of questions.
5. Further perusal of the 1992 summer schedule reveals a single airline providing the only all economy configured flights between New York area airports and Ft. Lauderdale. Three flights per day are offered, one each from Long Island’s MacArthur Airport (ISP), New Jersey’s Newark International (EWR) and New York’s Kennedy International Airport (JFK). Identify the airline and the single aircraft type it operates on these three routes.
It's not Carnival. The airline involved operated an all-coach configured fleet. 727-200s were used on all of these flights.
The airline was Braniff International Airlines (BE) with schedules reflecting its last month of operation. On July 2, 1992, BE filed for bankruptcy and ceased operations without warning. It became the fourth airline in 18 months to cease operations and joined Eastern, Pan Am and Midway Airlines in bankruptcy.
BE 109 EWR-FLL 915a - 1215p 72S YQM No Meal
BE 121 JFK-FLL 1135a - 240p 72S YQM No Meal
BE 111 ISP-FLL 225a - 525p 72S YQM No Meal
40. It's late 1997 and you want to fly from Chicago to Las Vegas – but man oh man – the fares sure are expensive! But hey! Further investigation reveals that if you’re willing to depart out of Midway Airport – located on the city’s south side – there are two airlines that offer substantially cheaper fares. Identify both airlines as well as the aircraft that each airline operates.
ATA with a 727-200 was one of the airlines... The other airline operated an all-coach configured 727-200...
That airline was Kiwi International
KP 777 MDW-LAS 900p - 1015p 72S YKVLQ Freq. 1457
Here are ATA's schedules
TZ 319 MDW-LAS 100p - 250p 72S YHLMB Snack
TZ 1542 MDW-LAS 925p - 1115p 72S YHLMB Snack
Additionally, kudos go out to jlemon for correctly identifying America West. I don't know how low its fares were compared to ATA and Kiwi, but it definitely flew from both ORD and MDW to LAS.
HP 2609 ORD-LAS 720a - 903a 320 FYHWB Breakfast/Snack
HP 2403 MDW-LAS 1000p - 1153p 733 FnYnHWBn No Meal
HP 777 ORD-LAS 1015 - 1156p 757 FnYnHWBn No Meal
49. Who’d’ve ever thought that there would be sufficient demand to offer not one but three nonstop flights between Nashville and Colorado Springs? Not me. But yes, it turns out that in 1997 there are three almost daily jet flights between these two cities. Identify the airline and the aircraft utilized, please.
The airline involved is usually known for operating contract services for other airlines' regional operations. Additionally, all three flights are operated with regional jet equipment.
The airline we're looking for is Mesa. The flights were coded under Mesa's IATA code YV and operated with Bombardier CRJ200 aircraft.
YV 2201 BNA-COS 600a - 740a CRJ YBQLH No Meal Freq. X7
YV 2203 BNA-COS 1150a - 130p CRJ YBQLH No Meal
YV 2205 BNA-COS 545p - 725p CRJ YBQLH No Meal Freq. X6
Thanks to everyone for their participation in responding to this set of questions.
5. Further perusal of the 1992 summer schedule reveals a single airline providing the only all economy configured flights between New York area airports and Ft. Lauderdale. Three flights per day are offered, one each from Long Island’s MacArthur Airport (ISP), New Jersey’s Newark International (EWR) and New York’s Kennedy International Airport (JFK). Identify the airline and the single aircraft type it operates on these three routes.
It's not Carnival. The airline involved operated an all-coach configured fleet. 727-200s were used on all of these flights.
The airline was Braniff International Airlines (BE) with schedules reflecting its last month of operation. On July 2, 1992, BE filed for bankruptcy and ceased operations without warning. It became the fourth airline in 18 months to cease operations and joined Eastern, Pan Am and Midway Airlines in bankruptcy.
BE 109 EWR-FLL 915a - 1215p 72S YQM No Meal
BE 121 JFK-FLL 1135a - 240p 72S YQM No Meal
BE 111 ISP-FLL 225a - 525p 72S YQM No Meal
40. It's late 1997 and you want to fly from Chicago to Las Vegas – but man oh man – the fares sure are expensive! But hey! Further investigation reveals that if you’re willing to depart out of Midway Airport – located on the city’s south side – there are two airlines that offer substantially cheaper fares. Identify both airlines as well as the aircraft that each airline operates.
ATA with a 727-200 was one of the airlines... The other airline operated an all-coach configured 727-200...
That airline was Kiwi International
KP 777 MDW-LAS 900p - 1015p 72S YKVLQ Freq. 1457
Here are ATA's schedules
TZ 319 MDW-LAS 100p - 250p 72S YHLMB Snack
TZ 1542 MDW-LAS 925p - 1115p 72S YHLMB Snack
Additionally, kudos go out to jlemon for correctly identifying America West. I don't know how low its fares were compared to ATA and Kiwi, but it definitely flew from both ORD and MDW to LAS.
HP 2609 ORD-LAS 720a - 903a 320 FYHWB Breakfast/Snack
HP 2403 MDW-LAS 1000p - 1153p 733 FnYnHWBn No Meal
HP 777 ORD-LAS 1015 - 1156p 757 FnYnHWBn No Meal
49. Who’d’ve ever thought that there would be sufficient demand to offer not one but three nonstop flights between Nashville and Colorado Springs? Not me. But yes, it turns out that in 1997 there are three almost daily jet flights between these two cities. Identify the airline and the aircraft utilized, please.
The airline involved is usually known for operating contract services for other airlines' regional operations. Additionally, all three flights are operated with regional jet equipment.
The airline we're looking for is Mesa. The flights were coded under Mesa's IATA code YV and operated with Bombardier CRJ200 aircraft.
YV 2201 BNA-COS 600a - 740a CRJ YBQLH No Meal Freq. X7
YV 2203 BNA-COS 1150a - 130p CRJ YBQLH No Meal
YV 2205 BNA-COS 545p - 725p CRJ YBQLH No Meal Freq. X6
Thanks to everyone for their participation in responding to this set of questions.
Last edited by Seat 2A; Jun 22, 2016 at 10:58 am
Jun 21, 2016, 4:43 pm
#9444
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 782
3. One of AA's eight flights from Hartford was flown with a 747. What was the final destination of AA's 747 Luxury Liner, and what was the 747's one enroute stop?
ORD, LAX, and DTW have been ruled out as intermediate stops, and LAX and SJU were not the 747's final destination. This means the 747's intermediate stop was JFK....but where did it go after that?
Out of JFK? Let's go with SFO.
Correct! The schedule was:
AA 17 leaves BDL 10:05 AM, arrives JFK 10:48 AM, leaves JFK at noon, arrives SFO 2:42 PM.
4. AA was just a few months from moving from DAL to DFW. You could take DC-10 Luxury Liner nonstops from Dallas to eight cities. What were the eight cities?
LAX, ORD, SFO, ELP, LGA, IAD, and TUS are correct. JFK, SAN, PHX, ACA, PSP, STT, STX, MEX, SAT, DTW, AUS, OKC, BNA, SJU, PHL, BOS, LAS, EWR, STL, and TUL have been ruled out. PSP, STT, SJU, and STX were not served nonstop from DAL, and AA did not serve AUS or LAS at all in 1973. Seven identified, one to go.
Hmm... let's go with... IAH
AA did not have nonstop authority between Dallas and Houston before deregulation.
Thanks for these excellent questions, Joe. Here's hoping you have a big stack of old timetables begging future contribution to the OTAQ&D!
ORD, LAX, and DTW have been ruled out as intermediate stops, and LAX and SJU were not the 747's final destination. This means the 747's intermediate stop was JFK....but where did it go after that?
Out of JFK? Let's go with SFO.
Correct! The schedule was:
AA 17 leaves BDL 10:05 AM, arrives JFK 10:48 AM, leaves JFK at noon, arrives SFO 2:42 PM.
4. AA was just a few months from moving from DAL to DFW. You could take DC-10 Luxury Liner nonstops from Dallas to eight cities. What were the eight cities?
LAX, ORD, SFO, ELP, LGA, IAD, and TUS are correct. JFK, SAN, PHX, ACA, PSP, STT, STX, MEX, SAT, DTW, AUS, OKC, BNA, SJU, PHL, BOS, LAS, EWR, STL, and TUL have been ruled out. PSP, STT, SJU, and STX were not served nonstop from DAL, and AA did not serve AUS or LAS at all in 1973. Seven identified, one to go.
Hmm... let's go with... IAH
AA did not have nonstop authority between Dallas and Houston before deregulation.
Thanks for these excellent questions, Joe. Here's hoping you have a big stack of old timetables begging future contribution to the OTAQ&D!
Jun 22, 2016, 11:02 am
#9445
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I have amended my last post above with relevant schedules for the final three questions - should any of you be interested. It should also be noted jlemon did correctly identify America West as operating the Midway to Las Vegas market.
JoeDTW, stop by and say hello to fellow Flyertalker exgateagt at AI2016. He owns and operates Skyshirts. He'll have the big table with all the airline t-shirts on it.
JoeDTW, stop by and say hello to fellow Flyertalker exgateagt at AI2016. He owns and operates Skyshirts. He'll have the big table with all the airline t-shirts on it.
Jun 23, 2016, 12:28 am
#9446
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In early 1987, two different airlines not owned by Continental were operating jet equipment for CO domestically in the U.S. via respective code sharing agreements. Identify both air carriers as well as the jet aircraft type each operated.
I don't know if this qualifies (Did CO own Royale?), but didn't Royale Airlines operate DC-9s on behalf of Continental?
Also, Pilgrim may have done work with its F28s up in the northeast on behalf of CO...
I don't know if this qualifies (Did CO own Royale?), but didn't Royale Airlines operate DC-9s on behalf of Continental?
Also, Pilgrim may have done work with its F28s up in the northeast on behalf of CO...
Jun 24, 2016, 9:52 am
#9447
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In early 1987, two different airlines not owned by Continental were operating jet equipment for CO domestically in the U.S. via respective code sharing agreements. Identify both air carriers as well as the jet aircraft type each operated.
I don't know if this qualifies (Did CO own Royale?), but didn't Royale Airlines operate DC-9s on behalf of Continental?
Also, Pilgrim may have done work with its F28s up in the northeast on behalf of CO...
I don't know if this qualifies (Did CO own Royale?), but didn't Royale Airlines operate DC-9s on behalf of Continental?
Also, Pilgrim may have done work with its F28s up in the northeast on behalf of CO...
However, Royale was not flying DC9s on behalf of Continental in 1987 (BTW, Royale was eventually replaced by Britt Airways operating as COEx at IAH and flying ATR-42 and EMB-120 equipment).
And Pilgrim did not operate Fokker F28 Fellowship service via a code share for CO as well.
But you are on the right track here as the airline in question did operate code share flights for Continental with the F28.
Plus, here's a hint: this same airline also flew code share service for CO with a turboprop type on the larger side on the same U.S. domestic short haul routes.
So please guess again, sir!
Last edited by jlemon; Jun 24, 2016 at 11:57 am Reason: additional info
Jun 25, 2016, 10:20 am
#9448
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In early to mid 1987, three different airlines not owned by Continental were operating jet equipment for CO domestically in the U.S. via respective code sharing agreements. Identify all three air carriers as well as the jet aircraft type each operated. MOSTLY ANSWERED....Emerald Air with DC9s, Presidential with BAe 146s and Mid Pacific Air with Fokker F28s
Should there be no takers, I'll provide the answer tomorrow.....and now ANSWERED
Last edited by jlemon; Jun 25, 2016 at 11:59 am Reason: answer update
Jun 25, 2016, 10:42 am
#9449
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Bonus Question:
In early to mid 1987, three different airlines not owned by Continental were operating jet equipment for CO domestically in the U.S. via respective code sharing agreements. Identify all three air carriers as well as the jet aircraft type each operated. MOSTLY ANSWERED....Emerald Air with DC9s, Presidential with BAe 146s and ________ with Fokker F28s
In early to mid 1987, three different airlines not owned by Continental were operating jet equipment for CO domestically in the U.S. via respective code sharing agreements. Identify all three air carriers as well as the jet aircraft type each operated. MOSTLY ANSWERED....Emerald Air with DC9s, Presidential with BAe 146s and ________ with Fokker F28s
Jun 25, 2016, 12:03 pm
#9450
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again, after a couple weeks, I have no compunction about online research ... following search results for "U.S. F-28 operators" didn't confirm anything about CO code-sharing, but did yield what I think is a strong possibility -- Mid Pacific Air, out of HNL (who also operated the turboprop Nihon/NAMC YS-11A)
And while we are in the islands......
Here's another bonus quiz item:
In 1987, Continental was operating nonstop DC-10 service from Honolulu (HNL) to eight destinations. Name them all.