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Old Timer's Airline Quiz and Discussion

Old Timer's Airline Quiz and Discussion

Old Jun 10, 16, 3:51 pm
  #9346  
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Originally Posted by miniliq View Post
3. (1992) Way up north in Canada’s Northwest Territory, three airlines vie for your patronage on the fiercely competitive route between Yellowknife (YZF) and Cambridge Bay (YCB). Two of the airlines operate mainline jet equipment while the other utilizes a turbo-prop. Identify each airline and its respective equipment.

I'll try these:
1. Canadian North (5T) with a 737
2. First Air (7F) with a 727
3. Buffalo Airways (J4) with a Dash 8

Coincidentally, Buffalo Airways has supplied some of the water bombers used in the firefighting efforts at Fort McMurray, an activity that is prominent in the local news in YEG where we've spent the past 2 weeks.


Welcome home, mini! Here's hoping you had a cool time in Alberta compared to the heat and humidity of south Louisiana. Here in Las Vegas the mercury has risen to 104°F. I look forward to landing in Fairbanks later this evening where despite the fact that the sun will still be high in the sky at our scheduled arrival time of 10:23pm, the temperature should be in the 60s.

As to your picks, only First Air is correct - though the aircraft is not. I believe Canadian North h8as flown this route (and may still) but not per the 1992 schedule I reference. Care to have another go at this?
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Old Jun 10, 16, 4:46 pm
  #9347  
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Originally Posted by Seat 2A View Post

Ideally, this is a quiz where we give our best educated guess. Some people here are clearly pretty good at it - to the extent that if they don't know the exact answer, they're likely to work it out eventually. As for using the internet or turning to schedules - I can only imagine that would take a lot of the fun out of it. I look at how often I've submitted the wrong answer and yet through gentle prompts and occasional hints it's always an enjoyable and informative journey to arrive at the correct answer.
My position wrt to internet research has evolved during the course of the past 4.5 years since you started this thread. My original position was "only answer questions that you 90% clear about". However, as we got into some of the more challenging question sets, I realized that many questions were sufficiently challenging to prevent nearly all of us without timetables in hand to even ascend to the "educated guess" stage.

But, with a little help from Google, it's possible for us to enter the ring, and learn a lot in the process. For example, when you asked questions about 727-100 operators on various routes, wiki helped me establish the playing field...and, I learned a lot during the process. Similarly, reading up on defunct airlines is also enjoyable for me.

What I like most about most of the questions here, is that they are simply unanswerable via straight up Google searches (impressive on the part of the askers, including yourself).

In light of the fact that the internet is here to stay, and FT is internet based, I suggest that you permit us to use Google in cases in which we are clueless.
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Old Jun 10, 16, 5:21 pm
  #9348  
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Originally Posted by Seat 2A View Post
... You can also purchase old timetables and OAGs on sites like eBay. I recently purchased - amongst others - a 1965 worldwide OAG for $9.50, an American Aviation Air Traffic Guide from December of 1947 for just $2.25 and a Worldwide OAG from 1948 for just $26.00! I picked up four more from that era for about $125.00. ...
and of course let's not forget the collectors' memorabilia shows ... last year Seat 2A and I met up at the one in Long Beach on a Saturday morning; I was hard pressed to keep my self-control in check when it came to a 1970-something International OAG for on the order of $20

16- Fifth Freedom LAX-MEX, 1994, South American carrier operating narrow-body equipment ... very wild guess: SAETA (Ecuador), 727-200
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Old Jun 10, 16, 7:06 pm
  #9349  
 
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And Emirates 212 just sailed past as I was outside doing my duty at our barbecue unit on a very beautiful Friday evening with rainbows in evidence (wine in hand: Clos du Bois 2010 Marlstone meritage). EK 212 routing: Houston-Dubai nonstop.

Kinda hard to miss an A380 in the very clear atmospheric conditions afforded by our current tropical air mass WX......
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Old Jun 10, 16, 7:07 pm
  #9350  
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Originally Posted by miniliq View Post
48. (1997) This airline provided a less expensive option to Air Canada and Canadian Airlines with twice daily one stop service between Calgary and Toronto. Identify the airline, the aircraft and the intermediate stop.

My best guess is Westjet (WS) with its 737-200's, although I don't remember service to YYZ as early as 1997 -- but I'll try that anyway, with Winnipeg as the intermediate stop: YYC-YWG-YYZ

Not a bad guess at all - one that as ever - if I didn't know better - I'd likely have gone with as well. But no - it was a different carrier. WestJet didn't operate east of Winnipeg until later in its history.

So here's a hint: The airline we're looking for was a short lived start-up
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Old Jun 10, 16, 7:29 pm
  #9351  
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Originally Posted by YVR Cockroach View Post
10. (1992) If you wanted to take advantage of Fifth Freedom rights to fly foreign carriers within North America, Montreal probably offered more options than any other city on the continent. Let’s examine just a couple here: Identify the two foreign airlines operating between Montreal and Chicago. While you’re at it, go ahead and identify which type of aircraft each airline operated on the route.
C'mon now - Montreal to Chicago! Maybe the ultimate 5th Freedom route in North America over the years. Both airlines are European...


Maybe I am remembering it wrong but didn't BA operated a YUL 5th to either DTW or ORD? I'd say on 763.

BA definitely operated a YUL-DTW flight and I also seem to recall (perhaps incorrectly) them also operating a VC10 on the YMX-ORD route in the 1960s.

However, we're now looking at 1992 and BA is not one of the two airlines operating the YUL-ORD route. Please - guess again!

16. At this time there are four foreign airlines that enjoy Fifth Freedom rights between Los Angeles and Mexico City. Identify each airline and the aircraft it flies on this route.
LACSA A320 and Malaysian 747-400 identified so far... As well as Aerolineas Argentinas with a 747-200. The other airline operated narrow bodied equipment and was from South America.

Wild stab. PL (AeroPeru) 757-200

Whoooosh! Alas, I believe jlemon nominated AeroPeru on this route as part of his answer upthread somewhere. As a hint, the airline we're looking for is from a country quite near to Peru.

22. Identify the airline that – as of early 1994 - flies mainline jets into more Colorado cities than any other. While you’re at it, identify those Colorado cities as well.

CO, GJT for one?

Continental did indeed serve Grand Junction with mainline jets though so far as I know GJT had by 1994 become a Continental Express destination. Let me get back to you on this. I want to double check because if - in early 1994 - CO was still serving its usual winter seasonal destinations, the addition of GJT would definitely put them in the conversation. I'll be home tonight and will post a response tomorrow.
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Old Jun 10, 16, 8:17 pm
  #9352  
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Originally Posted by moondog View Post
My position with regard to internet research has evolved during the course of the past 4.5 years since you started this thread. My original position was "only answer questions that you 90% clear about". However, as we got into some of the more challenging question sets, I realized that many questions were sufficiently challenging to prevent nearly all of us without timetables in hand to even ascend to the "educated guess" stage.

But, with a little help from Google, it's possible for us to enter the ring, and learn a lot in the process. For example, when you asked questions about 727-100 operators on various routes, wiki helped me establish the playing field...and, I learned a lot during the process. Similarly, reading up on defunct airlines is also enjoyable for me.

What I like most about most of the questions here, is that they are simply unanswerable via straight up Google searches (impressive on the part of the askers, including yourself).

In light of the fact that the internet is here to stay, and FT is internet based, I suggest that you permit us to use Google in cases in which we are clueless.
I hear you, moondog, and to that end I don’t believe I or anyone else here has ever expressly prohibited the use of outside resources toward answering the questions posed here. At the same time, I do think there’s been an unspoken understanding that participants will make a good faith effort based upon what they already know to answer questions without resorting to outside resources.

Though I stand by my earlier statement regarding the journey from an initially submitted wrong answer to finally coming up with the correct one, it must be said that the Old Timer’s Airline Quiz & Discussion has been percolating along quite nicely for almost five years now, regardless of how participants have come up with their answers to the questions posted here. Its success as a thread is due in no small measure to the participation of everyone here – be it asking or answering questions.

Here’s to the next five years and beyond!

And now if you’ll excuse me, I’ve got a plane to catch. I would like to add a little more detail to this response though and so I’ll check back once I return home to Alaska this evening. (Added 6/11 1:24pm ADT)

Over the years, the majority of the questions presented here have become schedule oriented. That’s likely because your two primary presenters of questions -jlemon and myself - have a lot of schedules at hand along with similar interests in airline routes and aircraft movements. Honestly, I’d really like to see more airline and aircraft history oriented questions posted here but speaking for myself at least, my knowledge of airline history is not sufficient to develop such questions on a regular basis. Additionally, my interest in airline history, while warm, doesn’t burn hot. And so – for my part, most of my questions have revolved around schedules or inflight services.

I agree with moondog’s assertion that some of the questions posted here on the Old Timer’s Airline Quiz & Discussion – particularly those that are schedule oriented - are so challenging that the average person with normal or “layman” level interest couldn’t begin to have a clue toward providing the correct answer without employing some level of outside assistance.

As to the use of outside resources in order to answer these questions, I recognize that this is the “Old Timers” airline quiz and some participants may not have been around during the 60s or 70s. Even so, I purposely avoid using schedules that are available over the internet or asking questions where the answer can be easily revealed via a simple Google search. I recognize that some people may opt to open their nearest timetable to get the answer and for my part, I put too much time into researching and formulating these questions to knowingly create questions where the answer can be revealed so easily.

A friend of mine once looked at some of the questions I was getting ready to submit and asked – quite reasonably - how anyone could possibly have a clue about such things off the top of their head. Long years of dedicated timetable and OAG perusal, was my response. But why? he asked. How many people actually care about such things?

How many people care about restoring old Studebakers or collecting more exotic things such as railroad china or miniature airline liquor bottles, was my response. With seven billion people on the planet, there is no shortage of varied and esoteric interests. That is especially true for those of us who actually consider an old OAG a “good read”.

I should also note that if most of the schedule oriented questions here seem “extreme” or “challenging”, it’s because our core participants are so intelligent and well-rounded in this regard that the answer to a simpler question such as “Name the only airline to fly Boeing 720Bs into Colorado Springs” would come almost instantly to mind for them. Given the fact that it’s been over 30 years since any airline flew the 720 commercially here in the U.S. and almost as long for most overseas airlines, I’m pretty certain that the average “layman” or even a fair percentage of casual avgeeks, despite their interest in commercial aviation, might very well be double checking to ensure they knew just exactly what type of plane Boeing’s 720 was, much less what the “B” variant represented.

Just for fun sometime, go Google “Airline Trivia” and look at how comparatively easy the various questions are.

Last edited by Seat 2A; Jun 11, 16 at 8:23 pm
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Old Jun 11, 16, 9:42 am
  #9353  
 
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Originally Posted by Seat 2A View Post

22. Identify the airline that – as of early 1994 - flies mainline jets into more Colorado cities than any other. While you’re at it, identify those Colorado cities as well.
22. I think this may have actually been American at this time. If so, AA destinations in colorful Colorado would have included Denver (DEN) and Colorado Springs (COS), of course, as well as seasonal service to Hayden (HDN), Gunnison (GUC), Vail/Eagle (EGE) and perhaps Durango (DRO) for the skiers and snowboarders.
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Old Jun 11, 16, 10:54 am
  #9354  
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Old Jun 11, 16, 10:58 am
  #9355  
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Originally Posted by jrl767 View Post
16. At this time there are four foreign airlines that enjoy Fifth Freedom rights between Los Angeles and Mexico City. Identify each airline and the aircraft it flies on this route.
LACSA A320 and Malaysian 747-400 identified so far... As well as Aerolineas Argentinas with a 747-200. The other airline operated narrow bodied equipment and was from South America.

Fifth Freedom LAX-MEX, 1994, South American carrier operating narrow-body equipment ... very wild guess: SAETA (Ecuador), 727-200

Wild?! More like accurate as Annie Oakley! Good call, J! SAETA it was, however the aircraft was listed as a Boeing 737-300.

P.S. I apologize for the delay in getting to this one, J - I just ran out of time yesterday at SeaTac
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Old Jun 11, 16, 11:15 am
  #9356  
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Originally Posted by YVR Cockroach View Post
22. Identify the airline that – as of early 1994 - flies mainline jets into more Colorado cities than any other. While you’re at it, identify those Colorado cities as well.

CO, GJT for one?

When I arrived home last night, I checked my schedules from early 1994. They showed Continental still flying an MD80 into GJT, a 72S into COS and its usual compliment of flights into DEN. Surprisingly there were none into any of the ski areas served by CO as described in question 46 (1997). Many of the flights into COS and GJT were operated via Continental Express with ATR equipment.
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Old Jun 11, 16, 11:24 am
  #9357  
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Originally Posted by jlemon View Post
22. Identify the airline that – as of early 1994 - flies mainline jets into more Colorado cities than any other. While you’re at it, identify those Colorado cities as well.

I think this may have actually been American at this time. If so, AA destinations in colorful Colorado would have included Denver (DEN) and Colorado Springs (COS), of course, as well as seasonal service to Hayden (HDN), Gunnison (GUC), Vail/Eagle (EGE) and perhaps Durango (DRO) for the skiers and snowboarders.


I think you are actually correct, jlemon! American it was, operating into each of the above listed cities except for Durango.

Boeing 757s were operated exclusively into Vail, Gunnison and Steamboat Springs. Colorado Springs was served with Fokker 100 equipment while Denver saw a parade of MD-80s from DFW, BNA and ORD.
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Old Jun 11, 16, 11:29 am
  #9358  
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Originally Posted by Seat 2A View Post
THE TIMELINE FOR THE FOLLOWING QUESTIONS IS MID-1992

3. Way up north in Canada’s Northwest Territory, three airlines vie for your patronage on the fiercely competitive route between Yellowknife (YZF) and Cambridge Bay (YCB). Two of the airlines operate mainline jet equipment while the other utilizes a turbo-prop. Identify each airline and its respective equipment.

5. Further perusal of the 1992 summer schedule reveals a single airline providing the only all economy configured flights between New York area airports and Ft. Lauderdale. Three flights per day are offered, one each from Long Island’s MacArthur Airport (ISP), New Jersey’s Newark International (EWR) and New York’s Kennedy International Airport (JFK). Identify the airline and the single aircraft type it operates on these three routes.
HINT: It ain't Carnival.

6. In mid-1992, passengers desiring nonstop transport between Anchorage and Honolulu were limited to this once a week, Saturday only flight. Identify the airline and aircraft involved.
Who the heck izzit? We know it ain't Hawaiian Air...

10. If you wanted to take advantage of Fifth Freedom rights to fly foreign carriers within North America, Montreal probably offered more options than any other city on the continent. Let’s examine just a couple here: Identify the two foreign airlines operating between Montreal and Chicago. While you’re at it, go ahead and identify which type of aircraft each airline operated on the route.
C'mon now - Montreal to Chicago! Maybe the ultimate 5th Freedom route in North America over the years. Both airlines are European...


THE TIMELINE FOR THE FOLLOWING QUESTION IS SPRING 1994

21. If you live in Nashville and want to fly to West Palm Beach, there’s only one flight per day, albeit a one-stop flight. It’s got some vintage equipment though, and a cheap fare to boot. Identify the airline, the equipment and the enroute stop.


THE TIMELINE FOR THE FOLLOWING QUESTION IS EARLY 1996

31. Per the North American OAG referenced for this question, there are four foreign airlines serving Miami with 727-100 equipment. Interestingly, only two routes are involved, i.e. two airlines per each route. Given the regions covered by this OAG, identify the four airlines and – if you like – you may also have a go at the relevant routes.
Hanair & Haiti Trans Air flying PAP-MIA have been correctly identified. The other route is CUN-MIA on which TAESA has also been identified. We need one more... (No esta Mexicana) C'mon, you Gringos! Gimme the right answer!!


THE TIMELINE FOR THE FOLLOWING QUESTIONS IS LATE 1997

37. Lots of airlines provide service between the three Washington DC area airports and Chicago. However, only one airline provides nonstop service between Washington’s Dulles International and Chicago’s Midway Airport. Your mission – should you decide to accept it – is to identify both the airline and the aircraft utilized on this route.

40. You want to fly from Chicago to Las Vegas – but man oh man – the fares sure are expensive! But hey! Further investigation reveals that if you’re willing to depart out of Midway Airport – located on the city’s south side – there are two airlines that offer substantially cheaper fares. Identify both airlines as well as the aircraft that each airline operates.
ATA with a 727-200 was one of the airlines...

44. It’s a damp, wintery afternoon in southern Ohio when you get a call from an old friend requesting the pleasure of your company for a weekend of scuba diving in the Cayman Islands. You’re already thinking of how to get there before she’s even completed her request. Thankfully an ad in the Travel Section of last Sunday’s Cincinnati Enquirer shows you the way – a Saturday only nonstop departure straight from Cincinnati to Grand Cayman. Right on! Identify the airline and the aircraft you’ll be flying upon.
HINT: The airline has "International" as part of its title. It shares its name with another airline - One went by "Airlines", the other by "Airways"

48. This airline provided a less expensive option to Air Canada and Canadian Airlines with twice daily one stop service between Calgary and Toronto. Identify the airline, the aircraft and the intermediate stop.
HINT: It's not WestJet

49. Who’d’ve ever thought that there would be sufficient demand to offer not one but three nonstop flights between Nashville and Colorado Springs? Not me. But yes, it turns out that in 1997 there are three almost daily jet flights between these two cities. Identify the airline and the aircraft utilized, please.
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Old Jun 11, 16, 1:46 pm
  #9359  
 
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Originally Posted by jlemon View Post
22. I think this may have actually been American at this time. If so, AA destinations in colorful Colorado would have included Denver (DEN) and Colorado Springs (COS), of course, as well as seasonal service to Hayden (HDN)......
Interesting to note that Steamboat Springs was served by not one but two airports at this time. If one wished to arrive via jet, you flew into Yampa Valley Airport (HDN) near the small town of Hayden which is about 25 miles west of Steamboat Springs. Besides AA and its 757 service at this time (early 1994) from DFW, EWR and ORD, NW was operating B727-200 service from MSP while UA was flying B737-300 service from DEN and ORD. And way back in the day, Pacific Southwest Airlines flew into HDN from both LAX and SFO (I think with the 72S but some assert it was actually with MD-80 equipment). Yampa Valley Airport was the only destination in Colorado ever served by PSA.

The other airport was a small airfield about three miles away from beautiful downtown Steamboat Springs: Bob Adams Field (SBS). Rocky Mountain Airways served SBS with DHC-7 Dash 7 turboprops with a shuttle-like schedule with ten round trip flights every weekday (and eleven from SBS to DEN on Fridays) between the airfield and DEN on behalf of Continental via a code share at this time. The carrier also made good use of the Dash 7's STOL capabilities as the runway at SBS is rather short at 4,452 feet long with an airfield elevation of 6,882 feet.

Last edited by jlemon; Jun 12, 16 at 7:10 am Reason: PSA at HDN & Rocky Mountain SBS-DEN frequencies
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Old Jun 11, 16, 7:35 pm
  #9360  
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Originally Posted by Seat 2A View Post
48. This airline provided a less expensive option to Air Canada and Canadian Airlines with twice daily one stop service between Calgary and Toronto. Identify the airline, the aircraft and the intermediate stop.
I'll admit to looking up a dead airlines list and guess it was The Flying Dog a.k.a. Greyhound Air using Kelowna Flightcraft 727s and hubbing at YWG.

Originally Posted by YVR Cockroach View Post
22. Identify the airline that – as of early 1994 - flies mainline jets into more Colorado cities than any other. While you’re at it, identify those Colorado cities as well.

CO, GJT for one?

When I arrived home last night, I checked my schedules from early 1994. They showed Continental still flying an MD80 into GJT, a 72S into COS and its usual compliment of flights into DEN. Surprisingly there were none into any of the ski areas served by CO as described in question 46 (1997). Many of the flights into COS and GJT were operated via Continental Express with ATR equipment.
It'd appear that CO had pulled out of DEN in 1994 (has it been that long since Stapleton closed?) so I would have to withdraw the now-determined-to-be-incorrect answer. Looked up my flight records and my CO intra-CO flights were a couple of years earlier. The DEN-GJT flight was indeed on an ATR but the GJT-DEN was on a MD-80. I remember some flight irregularity and the MD-80 might have been diverted to GJT and I might have been put onboard that.
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