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Old Timer's Airline Quiz and Discussion

Old Timer's Airline Quiz and Discussion

Old Feb 17, 16, 4:24 pm
  #8416  
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Originally Posted by jrl767 View Post
72. A thorough perusal of the OAG reveals nonstop service into Honolulu from fifteen different airports located on islands. Yes this question has been asked before, but covering a different time period and, as the saying goes, times have changed. Can you identify the fifteen airports?

Let's start with reasonably obvious destinations -- major cities (and some not-so-major ones) in Hawaii; we know the two Tokyo airports are on islands, as is Vancouver; I think the Continental Micronesia "Island-Hopper" ran nonstop to Guam most days but made a (maybe 2x/week) stop at Johnston

so we have
  1. Hilo (ITO)
  2. Kahului (OGG)
  3. Kapalua/West Maui (KPL?)
  4. Kaunakakai(?)(MKK)
  5. Kona (KOA)
  6. Lihue (LIH)
  7. Haneda (HND) Incorrect
  8. Narita (NRT)
  9. Vancouver (YVR)
  10. Guam (GUM)
  11. Johnston Atoll (JON)

    and as for the others, perhaps

  12. Auckland NZ (AKL)
  13. Kiritimati (aka Christmas Island) (CXI)
  14. Nadi Fiji (NAN)
  15. Papeete Tahiti (PPT)


jrl767, I apologize in that I should have said I was looking for airports not part of the state of Hawaii - i.e. international. That said, I didn't, so first off, I'm going to assume all of your Hawaiian airports are correct. As for your international airports... all of the ones listed except Tokyo Haneda are correct.

Now based upon how I asked the question, even with the Hawaiian island airports listed, we're still missing a few airports. You're off to a good start though and if you'll allow me to put out yet another hurdle for you to jump over, how about having a go at the other seven airports not listed?
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Old Feb 17, 16, 6:33 pm
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Originally Posted by Seat 2A View Post
Right on, JL! I can't find any information on Biak as a tourism destination worthy of service with an aircraft the size of a DC-10. Was it a question of range and/or prevailing winds? I thought the -30s had the range for a Jakarta to Honolulu nonstop but given Biak's geographical location in eastern Indonesia, a fuel stop makes sense.

Biak Airport is slated to receive a 14000+ foot runway soon.
I am not sure why Biak (BIK) would warrant nonstop service to Honolulu and one stop service to Los Angeles. Perhaps it was a technical stop....but, again, I do not really know.

Interesting to note that Biak had four flights a week from LAX via HNL in November of 1993, two operated with a B747 Combi (74M) and two flown with the DC-10-30 (D10). The D10 flights continued on to Jakarta nonstop while the 74M flights made an intermediate stop at Denpasar (DPS) before also terminating at Jakarta.

Other than that, Garuda (GA) operated a four flights a week with B737-300 equipment from Biak to a couple of destinations in Indonesia while local air carrier Merpati Nusantara (MZ) operated a number of domestic flights with Douglas DC9-10, Fokker F27, Fokker F28 and de Havilland Canada DHC-6 Twin Otter aircraft. So, for example, if one wished to fly nonstop from Biak to Fak-Fak, Indonesia, it was a mere one hour and 45 minute flight three days a week in a Twin Otter. And BTW, Fak-Fak has an interesting three letter OAG airport code: FKQ
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Old Feb 17, 16, 6:46 pm
  #8418  
 
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Originally Posted by Seat 2A View Post

57. In 1987 there were three cities in the state of Nevada that benefitted from scheduled jet flights. Identify the three cities and the single airline that served all three of them.
57. Well, at one point, there were four cities in Nevada that had scheduled jet service operated by the same airline: Las Vegas and Reno, of course, and also Elko (EKO) and Ely (ELY). The airline was United operating the Boeing 737-200 into both Elko and Ely.

So I'll guess UA had dropped their Ely service by this time but was still serving Elko in addition to LAS and RNO.
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Old Feb 17, 16, 7:21 pm
  #8419  
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Originally Posted by Seat 2A View Post
72. A thorough perusal of the OAG reveals nonstop service into Honolulu from fifteen different airports located on islands. ...
Originally Posted by jrl767 View Post
  1. Hilo (ITO)
  2. Kahului (OGG)
  3. Kapalua/West Maui (KPL?)
  4. Kaunakakai(?)(MKK)
  5. Kona (KOA)
  6. Lihue (LIH)
  7. Haneda (HND)
  8. Narita (NRT)
  9. Vancouver (YVR)
  10. Guam (GUM)
  11. Johnston Atoll (JON)

    and as for the others, perhaps

  12. Auckland NZ (AKL)
  13. Kiritimati (aka Christmas Island) (CXI)
  14. Nadi Fiji (NAN)
  15. Papeete Tahiti (PPT)
jrl767, I apologize in that I should have said I was looking for airports not part of the state of Hawaii - i.e. international. That said, I didn't, so first off, I'm going to assume all of your Hawaiian airports are correct. As for your international airports... all of the ones listed except Tokyo Haneda are correct.

Now based upon how I asked the question, even with the Hawaiian island airports listed, we're still missing a few airports. You're off to a good start though and if you'll allow me to put out yet another hurdle for you to jump over, how about having a go at the other seven airports not listed?
oooooookay, figured that was too easy ...

I can think of five candidates right off the bat
  1. Hong Kong (HKG)
  2. Manila (MNL)
  3. Osaka (OSA)
  4. Pago Pago (PPG)
  5. Taipei (TPE)

    plus another that makes sense, but I'm less certain of
  6. Nagoya (NGO)

    and finally a little upthread research leads me to add
  7. Port Moresby (POM)
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Old Feb 17, 16, 8:15 pm
  #8420  
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Originally Posted by jlemon View Post
57. In 1987 there were three cities in the state of Nevada that benefitted from scheduled jet flights. Identify the three cities and the single airline that served all three of them.

Well, at one point, there were four cities in Nevada that had scheduled jet service operated by the same airline: Las Vegas and Reno, of course, and also Elko (EKO) and Ely (ELY). The airline was United operating the Boeing 737-200 into both Elko and Ely. So I'll guess UA had dropped their Ely service by this time but was still serving Elko in addition to LAS and RNO.
A good guess but no - United had stopped jet service to EKO and ELY by 1987. So - we're looking for a different airline and the correct combination of three cities, and of course we already know LAS and RNO are two of them. Hmm... EKO or ELY?
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Old Feb 18, 16, 2:54 am
  #8421  
 
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Originally Posted by Seat 2A View Post
Right on, JL! I can't find any information on Biak as a tourism destination worthy of service with an aircraft the size of a DC-10. Was it a question of range and/or prevailing winds? I thought the -30s had the range for a Jakarta to Honolulu nonstop but given Biak's geographical location in eastern Indonesia, a fuel stop makes sense.... It was another stop - in Indonesia but not Denpasar. In fact, it's a place I've never even heard of. Perhaps you have
Biak is indeed a necessary refuelling point, which Garuda used for years on flights to Honolulu. It must be the easternmost large runway in Indonesia. GC Mapper tells me that Honolulu to Biak is 4,713 miles, while Honolulu to Denpasar Bali is 6,244 miles. Jakarta is even further beyond Denpasar. Sometimes you don't realise how big Indonesia is, it stretches almost from India to Australia. I used the BA flight from London to LAX several times when around 1979 it was operated by a hired Air New Zealand DC-10, that is 5,450 miles and was a notable stretch for the aircraft, in fact with a full passenger load freight sometimes had to be left off.

The airport at Biak is, inevitably, based around an old Jap fighter strip from WW2. Some from the USA will have heard of Biak only too well.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Biak

I'm wondering if S2A might be actually overhead Bali on his Singapore to Brisbane flight as I write this.
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Old Feb 18, 16, 3:50 am
  #8422  
 
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Per the 1987 OAG I reference I recall the schedules still showing Pan Am still operating 72S aircraft into Berlin. Dan Air operated HS-748s and Air France served the airport with - amongst other aircraft - an A310 drum I believe DUS. This is one response I'd like to provide a little further information on when I get home later this week.
I believe Pan Am at Berlin had a mix of 727 and 737 in 1987. A couple of years earlier I was on holiday at Palma, Majorca, and recall two Pan Am 737s coming in on holiday charters from Berlin, as they did to other Mediterranean summer points (and ski resorts in Austria etc in winter), an aspect of Pan Am's operations I think few in the US were aware of.

Dan-Air were actually quite prominent in Berlin, they long had a base there since the 1960s (with Comets) and were the No 1 holiday charter operator to the Mediterranean, with 727s, One-Elevens, and ... well, all sorts of other odd types as well - this is, after all, Dan-Air we are talking about ! They also did multiple flights a week to London Gatwick which started as charters and gradually progressed, with increasing frequency, into a scheduled operation. These flights were used to exchange their Berlin aircraft with their main base at Gatwick.

Just after 1987 the number of flights from West Berlin really expanded, in the few remaining years before unification. Pan Am got their commuter affiliate Ransome Airlines to base ATR42s at Berlin Tegel for some lesser routes. An operation called Euroberlin France started which was 49% Lufthansa 51% Air France, to get around the restriction on German airlines operating from West Berlin, but their 737s were all hired from Monarch Airlines of London Luton, yet another holiday flight operator from Berlin, who expanded considerably to supply the service. Meanwhile TWA were a late entrant onto the routes, they sent several 727s over to Berlin to have a go at the German domestic routes from there. This operation only lasted a couple of years.

S2A mentioned above Berlin Regional UK as a commuter operator, this had been started with BAe Jetstreams by the former chief pilot of the British Airways Berlin operation, Dick Twomey, when he retired from the airline. It grew to the extent of having a 737 for a year right at the point of reunification, but then sold out to holiday flight airline Germania, who were glad to pay to absorb a ready-to-run Berlin base as soon as permitted.

Before 1991 the well-known restriction that only operators from onetime-Allied countries could operate from Berlin meant, among other things, that while airline bases there could recruit flight attendants who were German, pilots had to be rigidly from the four former Allied countries only. Over the border in East Berlin, they got round this by having Schonefeld airport fractionally outside the city border, in the GDR proper. A couple of western airlines, KLM was one, actually operated to Berlin using Schonefeld. There was a special bus operated by the Eastern authorities which started from a little terminal by the Zoo station in West Berlin, and drove through its own special gate in The Wall into East Berlin, across to Schonefeld, and right inside the secure area of the terminal there. I used to see it when visiting Berlin in the 1980s, a Hungarian-built Ikarus luxury coach, completely unbranded, immaculately polished, a well-dressed Stasi agent just inside the door, and with maybe a couple of passengers on board, if that.
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Old Feb 18, 16, 3:35 pm
  #8423  
 
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Originally Posted by Seat 2A View Post

54. At present the Seattle to Portland route is served by Alaska/Horizon, Delta and United. Turboprops handle 80% of the flights. Back in 1987 there were 13 airlines operating mainline jet equipment on this 129 mile route. How many of them can you identify?
PARTIALLY ANSWERED All but four have been identified. See post #8394
54. Here are three hopefully not too wild guesses....

* Hawaiian Air
* Jet America
* Morris Air
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Old Feb 18, 16, 5:30 pm
  #8424  
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Originally Posted by jrl767 View Post
72. A thorough perusal of the OAG reveals nonstop service into Honolulu from fifteen different airports located on islands. Yes – this question has been asked before, but covering a different time period and, as the saying goes, times have changed. Can you identify the fifteen airports?[.b]

jrl767 got off to a fine start, initially identifying eight of the island airports:

Narita (NRT)
Vancouver (YVR)
Guam (GUM)
Johnston Atoll (JON)
Auckland NZ (AKL)
Kiritimati (aka Christmas Island) (CXI)
Nadi Fiji (NAN)
Papeete Tahiti (PPT)

I responded: "You're off to a good start though and if you'll allow me to put out yet another hurdle for you to jump over, how about having a go at the other seven airports not listed?"

To which j patiently responded:

Oooooookay, figured that was too easy ...

I can think of five candidates right off the bat.

1.Hong Kong (HKG)
2.Manila (MNL)
3.Osaka (OSA)
4.Pago Pago (PPG)
5.Taipei (TPE)

plus another that makes sense, but I'm less certain of

6.Nagoya (NGO)

and finally a little up-thread research leads me to add

7.Port Moresby (POM)


Out of this group I would say that all but Hong Kong and Port Moresby are correct. Hong Kong?! I know, I know... and when I researched this I googled information on the old Hong Kong Airport at Kai Tak (Remember, we're going back to 1987) and looked at the maps. From what I could tell, much of the airport was built on reclaimed land from Kowloon Bay but I could find no references to it being on an island nor any maps to support that.

So - unless anyone would would like to submit information to the contrary, I'm going to have to put the kibosh on HKG. Port Moresby, too. I'm almost certain Air Niugini did serve POM-HNL nonstop - just not per the schedule I referenced for this question.

So then - well done so far, Mr. 767. Thirteen down and two to go - one of which is on the Air Mike network. The other was served by a DC-8...
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Old Feb 18, 16, 5:44 pm
  #8425  
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Originally Posted by jlemon View Post
54. At present the Seattle to Portland route is served by Alaska/Horizon, Delta and United. Turboprops handle 80% of the flights. Back in 1987 there were 13 airlines operating mainline jet equipment on this 129 mile route. How many of them can you identify?

JRL767 got this one off to a good start with the following offering...
  1. Air Cal Correct!
  2. Alaska Correct!
  3. American Correct!
  4. Continental Incorrect!
  5. Delta Correct!
  6. Eastern Correct!
  7. Horizon Correct!
  8. Northwest Correct!
  9. PSA Incorrect!
  10. TWA Correct!
  11. United Correct!
  12. US Air Incorrect!
  13. Western Incorrect!

Here are three hopefully not too wild guesses....

Hawaiian Air Correct!
Jet America Correct!
Morris Air Incorrect!

Not too wild at all, JL. Except for Morris Air - a good guess but alas...

So, we've just two remaining - both of them based in the west - both of them operating fleets primarily powered by the Pratt & Whitney JT8D.

Awright then - let's knock off those final two!

Last edited by Seat 2A; Feb 18, 16 at 6:56 pm
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Old Feb 18, 16, 6:47 pm
  #8426  
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Originally Posted by Seat 2A View Post
54- ... Seattle to Portland ... 13 airlines operating mainline jet equipment ...
So, we've just two remaining - both of them based in the west - both of them operating fleets primarily powered by the Pratt & Whitney JT8D.
as most of us "old timers" are probably well aware, the JT8D was the basic engine for the entire DC9, 727, and 737 families ... in fact, you can probably count on the fingers of both hands the narrow-body mainline jet types operating in 1987 that weren't JT8D-powered (BAe 146, BAC 1-11, 737-300/400/500, F-28; possibly a few more)

all that said, I have one reasonable guess (Sunworld) and one completely wild one (Continental West)

Last edited by jrl767; Feb 18, 16 at 6:59 pm Reason: (1) removed A320 (2) replaced Braniff w CO West (BN wasn't based in the west)
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Old Feb 18, 16, 6:52 pm
  #8427  
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G'Day from sunny, hot and humid Brisbane! I just wanted to address these responses before heading off into town via the river ferry and then a walk about and a late lunch at the Sherwood Arboretum.

Many thanks to WHBM for the additional insight into Biak and the historic operations at Berlin. Great info!

Originally Posted by WHBM View Post
I'm wondering if S2A might be actually overhead Bali on his Singapore to Brisbane flight as I write this.

I see your post is logged on at 1:54am Alaska time - 6:54pm Singapore time. We took to the air at about 3:50pm local, and with Denpasar sitting 1040 miles southeast of Singapore - or about two hours flying time - it appears we might have passed to the north about an hour earlier. This flight was highlighted by a spectacular sunset - it being the primary reason why I chose Suite 2K. The heat and humidity rising off the seas down here create magnificent clouds which in turn lend themselves to spectacular sunsets.

Here's a look at our Flight Path
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Old Feb 18, 16, 7:00 pm
  #8428  
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Originally Posted by jrl767 View Post
re. Question 54: So, we've just two remaining - both of them based in the west - both of them operating fleets primarily powered by the Pratt & Whitney JT8D.

Awright then - let's knock off those final two!

That said, I have one reasonable guess (Sunworld) and one completely wild one (Braniff reincarnate)


Your first guess was imminently reasonable (not to mention correct!) but unfortunately your second guess was indeed quite wild.

Fourteen down, one last airline to go - an airline that I've flown on this route...
Alright then - time for me to go out and enjoy Brisbane! I'll check back from the Emirates Lounge later this evening.
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Old Feb 18, 16, 7:36 pm
  #8429  
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Originally Posted by Seat 2A View Post
Alright then - time for me to go out and enjoy Brisbane! I'll check back from the Emirates Lounge later this evening.
enjoy, mate! (I think that's Oz-speak)
Originally Posted by Seat 2A View Post
... imminently reasonable ...
more than "imminently"; completely, from the get-go ... I'd believe "eminently" ...
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Old Feb 19, 16, 3:03 am
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Originally Posted by Seat 2A View Post
time for me to go out and enjoy Brisbane! I'll check back from the Emirates Lounge later this evening.
Brisbane is where our Australian office is; I've always found it a very pleasant place, of course there's a lot of Old Britain that I recognise, although the smaller cars which were notably British ones seem to have finally disappeared from the roads. Australia always built large cars, but until the 1970s it seems the usual smaller ones were Morris, MG, etc, imported from Britain. And in that non-corrosion climate cars seem to last way longer than back home.

If you get time when at the airport, walk across through the car park (or get the incoming taxi to drop you off first) at the Southern Cross, a little museum which contains the first aircraft to fly the Pacific from the USA to Australia, an event which started off many of the things we write about here. There's also displays about other pioneer Australian airline operation. The Southern Cross is a Fokker F7b/3m, which was flown by Charles Kingsford Smith, universally known in Australia as "Smithy", who also did pioneer trips from Australia to Britain. Fokker had a US factory at Passaic NJ, where I believe it was built. I always go over and have a look at it when I've time to spare at Brisbane airport.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_Cross_(aircraft)

Last edited by WHBM; Feb 19, 16 at 4:26 pm
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