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Old Timer's Airline Quiz and Discussion

Old Timer's Airline Quiz and Discussion

Old Feb 10, 16, 2:31 pm
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Originally Posted by jlemon View Post
19. Yet another truly wild guess....

Southern Airways operating a D9S on a routing of Chicago (ORD) - Memphis (MEM) - New Orleans (MSY) - Eglin Air Force Base (VPS) - Washington Dulles (IAD) - New York (LGA)
19. Well, I've now given some thought concerning my above response and have subsequently wondered if Southern was even operating the DC9-30 in 1970. Of course, they were operating the DC9-10 back then, a number of which were acquired used from Delta.

So what other local service airline may have been operating the D9S at this time, possibly with service to Washington Dulles?

Ah.....perhaps the air carrier in question was Ozark Air Lines.

And if so, perhaps OZ was flying a routing of Chicago (ORD) - Moline (MLI) - Peoria (PIA) - Champaign/Urbana (CMI) - Washington Dulles (IAD) - New York (LGA).
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Old Feb 10, 16, 11:43 pm
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1- the "North of Expected" hint makes me want to toss a very oddball guess out there: AA, JFK-SAN
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Old Feb 11, 16, 11:34 am
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25. This state has nonstop jet flights from more airports to New York City area airports than any other state.

Originally Posted by WHBM
I'm guessing this is Florida. In 1970 let's suggest MIA, FLL, WPB, SRQ, TPA, MCO, JAX. Eastern to all, National to most, Northeast to a few. Runner up is maybe New York state itself, all those upstate points served by the One-Elevens of American and Mohawk.
Excellent work, WHBM! Florida is not the state I'm looking for, but New York is.

Originally Posted by WHBM
I'll just have a stab at the New York jet service points. Not in the question, but anyway ...

Upstate NY : Albany, Utica, Syracuse, Rochester, Buffalo. All by both MO and AA apart from Utica, which I think was not an AA point.

Midstate NY : Binghampton, Elmira, Ithaca, MO only (I think we have one regular and one occasional contributor here who are alumni of Cornell at this period, and possibly used this service from New York City).

I can't think of any others offhand, it is one more than I suggested for Florida, so now to think of another one with eight. "Airports rather than cities". I'll stab at Ohio, possibly places like Toledo or Akron had nonstop to New York City.
Additionally, I've found one more state with service to the three NYC airports from an equal number of its own airports. I've also identified an additional state with service to the three NYC airports from an equal number of its own cities.

I draw the distinction between cities and airports using Ohio and Virginia. Ohio has nonstop jet service from seven unique cities (even though CVG is in Covington, Kentucky), whereas Virginia has service from six cities PLUS Washington Dulles (IAD) (Seven instate airports) which I don't include as a Virginia city since the airport - by title - serves Washington DC which is located in the District of Columbia.

Here's the breakdown:

FLORIDA
Ft. Lauderdale EA 727 EA 72S EA D9S NA 72S NA DC8 NE 72S NE D9S
Jacksonville EA 727 EA D9S NA 72S
Miami EA 727 EA 72S EA DC8 EA D8S NA 72S NA 747 NA DC8 NA D8S NE 72S NE D9S
Orlando EA 727 EA D9S NA 72S
Tampa EA 727 EA 72S EA DC8 NA 72S
West Palm EA 727 EA DC8 NA 727

NEW YORK
Albany AA BAC AA727 MO BAC
Binghamton MO BAC
Buffalo AA BAC AA 707 AA727 AA 72S MO BAC
Rochester AA 727 AA 72S AA BAC MO BAC
Syracuse AA 727 AA 72S AA BAC MO BAC
Utica MO BAC
White Plains MO BAC
NOTE: Ithaca was served by a single nonstop 111 flight from JFK but had no jet flights to any of the three New York airports. Elmira was served by Mohawk 111s, but there was no nonstop service to/from NYC.


OHIO
Akron UA 72S
Cincinnati AA 727 AA 72S TW 727
Cleveland AA 727 AA 72S UA 727 UA 72S UA D8F TW 707
Columbus AA 727 TW 707 TW 727 TW DC9
Dayton AA 727 AA 72S TW 727
Toledo UA 737
Youngstown UA 727 UA 737

VIRGINIA
Charlottesville PI 73S
Lynchburg PI 73S
Newport News NA 72S
Norfolk NA 727 NA 72S PI 73S
Richmond EA D9S NA 72S
Roanoke PI 737
Washington AA 707 AA 720 AA 727 AA 72S BN 720 BN 727 EA 727 EA DC8 NA 727 NW 707 OZ D9S PI 73S PI YS1 SO DC9

Last edited by Seat 2A; Feb 11, 16 at 2:37 pm
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Old Feb 11, 16, 12:13 pm
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19. The 720 mile nonstop distance between Chicago and New York does not lend itself well to multi-stop jet flights. As you scan down the 80-90 some-odd flights serving this route that are listed in the OAG, you see mostly nonstops and only a sprinkling of one and two stop flights. Suddenly, there it is… A harp glissando and a chorus from the heavens ring out as you ogle wide eyed at a listing that not only features four stops but will also be offering a dinner along the way between O’Hare and LaGuardia. Book it, Danno! Identify the airline, the four enroute stops and the aircraft used.

Originally Posted by jlemon View Post
Yet another truly wild guess....

Southern Airways operating a D9S on a routing of Chicago (ORD) - Memphis (MEM) - New Orleans (MSY) - Eglin Air Force Base (VPS) - Washington Dulles (IAD) - New York (LGA)

Well, I've now given some thought concerning my above response and have subsequently wondered if Southern was even operating the DC9-30 in 1970. Of course, they were operating the DC9-10 back then, a number of which were acquired used from Delta.

So what other local service airline may have been operating the D9S at this time, possibly with service to Washington Dulles?

Ah.....perhaps the air carrier in question was Ozark Air Lines.

And if so, perhaps OZ was flying a routing of Chicago (ORD) - Moline (MLI) - Peoria (PIA) - Champaign/Urbana (CMI) - Washington Dulles (IAD) - New York (LGA).
Well it's about time! Good job, JL! Ozark's the airline and the routing's very close. Here's the breakdown...

Ozark Flight 970
Equipment: DC-9-30
Frequency: Daily

Chicago (ORD) to Rockford (RFD) 2:35p - 3:05p
Rockford (RFD) to Moline (MLI) 3:15p - 3:40p
Moline (MLI) to Champaign (CMI) 3:50p - 4:23p
Champaign (CMI) to Washington (IAD) 4:38p - 7:00p Dinner
Washington (IAD) to New York (LGA) 7:30p - 8:27p
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Old Feb 11, 16, 12:22 pm
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1. It’s late 1970 and 747s had been in service for less than a year. Following a thorough perusal of the relevant OAG, I have identified a total of four domestic coast to coast routes being flown at the time. Identify the route and the airline(s) flying it.

So far, we've identified:

JFK-LAX AA TW UA
JFK-SFO AA TW UA
IAD-LAX AA

Originally Posted by jrl767 View Post
The "North of Expected" hint makes me want to toss a very oddball guess out there: AA, JFK-SAN
That is very oddball indeed, J. So here's one final hint, and if you or one of your fellow participants can't figure it out after this one, I'm going to have to suspend you all from participation for a week. Or something.

HINT: The airline was not AA, DL, TW or UA. The flight did not originate from BOS, NYC, PHL or IAD. Remember, we're talkin' transcon here... Atlantic to Pacific.
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Old Feb 11, 16, 12:27 pm
  #8346  
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By now it’s a well-known fact that quite a few people follow but don’t necessarily participate in the OTAQ&D. As of thirty seconds ago when I last checked, we had 454,815 456,399 456,890 457,716 458,918 459,855 460,905 463,685 - many many many times more than any other thread in the Travel Buzz forum. It’s always a good day when someone new decides to take the plunge and have a go at our quiz with an answer or two. Welcome aboard! You'll note I've left the old amounts in using smaller colored print. Since I first posted these questions on January 29th, the OTAQ&D has had over 9000 views. Check back here for updates on the total views - I'll continue to post them as long as questions remain unanswered. 463685


THE TIMELINE FOR THE FOLLOWING QUESTIONS IS THE LATTER HALF OF 1970

1. It’s late 1970 and 747s had been in service for less than a year. Following a thorough perusal of the relevant OAG, I have identified a total of four domestic coast to coast routes being flown at the time. Identify each of these routes and the airline(s) flying it.
A N S W E R E D

3. Identify the two shortest 747 routes being operated domestically in late 1970
PARTIALLY ANSWERED ATL-DFW has been correctly identified. We're looking for just one more route operated by an airline other than Delta...
HINT: They were both greater than 600 miles but less than 800 miles...
HINT: Neither of these flights were operated by the "Big Three"...

4. In late 1970 Northwest Airlines operated a total of four daily flights into Anchorage from three different airports in the Continental U.S. Identify each airport and the aircraft type being used on each route.
HINT: All of the aircraft involved had four engines...
HINT: Northwest's Regal Imperial Service would have been offered on two of these routes...

6. As of late 1970, there were three states that had jet service from only one airline. Identify each state and the airline that provided service to that state.
A N S W E R E D

7. A thorough perusal of the schedule available to me has revealed four states that have no flights operated with 727s. Thinking about 727 operators of that time – and the cities they served - can you identify each of these four states?
PARTIALLY ANSWEREDSo far Hawaii, Mississippi and New Hampshire have been correctly identified. We're looking for just one more state...
HINT: The missing state was the first to give women the right to vote

9. A total of five airlines offered nonstop flights between Jamaica and Miami – two from Kingston and three from Montego Bay. No single airline served both KIN and MBJ nonstop from Miami. Identify the airlines providing nonstop service in each market.
HINT: All but one of the airlines are Caribbean based. The U.S. based airline flies the MBJ-MIA route.

10. Identify three states that had a total of 10 or less jet flights operated into or out of the state each day.
PARTIALLY ANSWEREDDelaware has been correctly identified. We're looking for just two more states.
HINT: One state is east of the Mississippi while the other is west of it

23. Boeing’s new 747 has been in service for less than a year. As we enter the high season for Caribbean tourism, there are three destinations that are scheduled to receive nonstop 747 service from New York’s John F. Kennedy International Airport. Identify each of these destinations and the airline that will be serving them with the 747.

24. In 1970 five airlines were operating jets on the short leg between Cleveland and Detroit. Identify each of the five airlines as well as the respective equipment they were operating on this route.
A N S W E R E D


GENERAL COMMERCIAL AVIATION RELATED QUESTIONS

27. What airline and airplane were featured in the 1990 movie Die Hard 2?
HINT: Bruce Willis, Dennis Franz... Bad guys threatening all manner of unsavory things, especially towards airliners and the people on them. Now that I think about it there were two different jets in DH2. The first of them crashed spectacularly on the runway and the other almost ran over poor Bruce Willis...

30. All of the airlines in the two groups listed below operated widebodied jets. What’s the difference between the airlines in group one as opposed to the airlines in group two?
Group 1: American, Continental, Eastern, United, TWA
Group 2: Delta, National, Northwest, Pan Am, Western
A N S W E R E D

33. I was in a thrift shop the other day and I came across a DVD of this old 1970s era action flick - Whiteline Fever - starring Jan-Michael Vincent and Kay Lenz. The price was right – only $2.00 – and as an added bonus, Slim Pickens was in it. Well that settled it then! Never one to fritter away my life watching Merchant Ivory films in perpetuity, I bought the DVD and tossed it on my stack of movies to watch someday. That day came a couple nights ago. Imagine then my surprise and delight as in the opening scenes the camera panned across an airport tarmac showing a distinctive control tower with the airport’s location emblazoned down its side in large letters. As the scene unfolded further, a beautiful four engine jetliner approached from afar. The camera caught it nicely as it glided over the threshold, landed and then taxied up to the non-jetway equipped gate. Any of y’all seen this movie? Any thoughts on the airport and the airplane featured?
A N S W E R E D

38. What kind of airplane would you be flying upon if you were to visit the “Hawaiian Lounge” inflight?
HINT: A stairway was required to access this lounge.
HINT: It wasn't a 747.

40. What kind of airplane would you be flying upon if you were to visit the “Fujiyama Room” for cocktails and hors d’oeuvres?
HINT: You might also be presented with a steaming hot, scented Oshibori towel during your visit

42. In early 1968, this airline installed new $33,000.00 broiler ovens and began serving steak to both First and Economy Class passengers on all of its lunch and dinner flights out of Montreal.
HINT: All of the meal flights were longer than 500 miles...



THE ORIGINAL LISTING OF ALL 45 QUESTIONS CAN BE FOUND HERE

Last edited by Seat 2A; Feb 12, 16 at 1:15 pm
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Old Feb 11, 16, 2:47 pm
  #8347  
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1- OK, last shot at the "phantom" 747 ... National, MIA<-->LAX
30- could this be that, at some point, all the Group 1 airlines offered a three-class configuration whereas the Group 2 carriers only had two-class cabins
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Old Feb 11, 16, 9:04 pm
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Originally Posted by jrl767 View Post
1. It’s late 1970 and 747s had been in service for less than a year. Following a thorough perusal of the relevant OAG, I have identified a total of four domestic coast to coast routes being flown at the time. Identify the route and the airline(s) flying it.

OK, last shot at the "phantom" 747 ... National, MIA<-->LAX

Phantom? It's been sitting out there in broad daylight the whole time! Congratulations to you on finally closing this one out. ^

So the four routes as of November 1st, 1970 are:

JFK-LAX
JFK-SFO
IAD-LAX
MIA-LAX

30. All of the airlines in the two groups listed below operated widebodied jets. What’s the difference between the airlines in group one as opposed to the airlines in group two?
Group 1: American, Continental, Eastern, United, TWA
Group 2: Delta, National, Northwest, Pan Am, Western

Could this be that, at some point, all the Group 1 airlines offered a three-class configuration whereas the Group 2 carriers only had two-class cabins.

Not a bad guess J but on domestic flights in 1970, there was no Business Class or Economy Plus type seating yet offered. Most markets large enough to support flights with wide bodied aircraft offered basic F and Y class service. Other fares such as M (Military) or Z (Standby) still were sat in the coach section where all of the seats were the same.

Where there was a three class service marketed (Generally marketed F, Y & K), the difference in Y and K classes was not in the cabin configuration or seating comfort but rather in the service offered onboard.

For example, most flights between the US west coast and Hawaii offered F, Y and K Class. F was First Class, Y was Coach - both will full meal service appropriate to class. K was marketed as Economy Class and sold for $10-15.00 less than Y. The seating was identical to Coach but did not include a complimentary meal service. A basic meal was available for sale on board. Again, the seating was identical to the Coach cabin.

So - the difference I'm looking for in this question does have something to do with the interior configuration of the aircraft but is not related to seating comfort or service.
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Old Feb 11, 16, 10:09 pm
  #8349  
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33- in 1970 "a recently designed Saul Bass logo" has to be Continental, and since I don't think their 720Bs were still around at that time, the jet has to be a 747

"one international flight" and "in the western part of the US" point to Stapleton Intl in Denver, if we're looking for a CO 747 destination

Originally Posted by Seat 2A View Post
... K was marketed as Economy Class and sold for $10-15.00 less than Y. The seating was identical to Coach but did not include a complimentary meal service. A basic meal was available for sale on board. Again, the seating was identical to the Coach cabin.
when I first started traveling for work in late 1976, CO offered K on their LAX<-->PHX flights for $10 less than Y ... I had a devil of a time convincing my company travel department to book me in K; I really didn't care whether or not I got breakfast on the outbound 645am flight or a snack on the 430pm return, and oh by the way it was saving them $40 on each of my trips

Last edited by jrl767; Feb 11, 16 at 10:23 pm
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Old Feb 11, 16, 11:04 pm
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Originally Posted by jrl767 View Post
33. I was in a thrift shop the other day and I came across a DVD of this old 1970s era action flick - Whiteline Fever - starring Jan-Michael Vincent and Kay Lenz. The price was right – only $2.00 – and as an added bonus, Slim Pickens was in it. Well that settled it then! Never one to fritter away my life watching Merchant Ivory films in perpetuity, I bought the DVD and tossed it on my stack of movies to watch someday. That day came a couple nights ago. Imagine then my surprise and delight as in the opening scenes the camera panned across an airport tarmac showing a distinctive control tower with the airport’s location emblazoned down its side in large letters. As the scene unfolded further, a beautiful four engine jetliner approached from afar. The camera caught it nicely as it glided over the threshold, landed and then taxied up to the non-jetway equipped gate. Any of y’all seen this movie? Any thoughts on the airport and the airplane featured?
HINT: I consider the tower with the city's name emblazoned down the side to be a big hint. These letters were not painted but rather were lights. When turned on at night, they were pale blue. This airport also had one international flight per day at the time... It's in the western half of the U.S. The aircraft wore a recently designed Saul Bass livery.


In 1970 "a recently designed Saul Bass logo" has to be Continental, and since I don't think their 720Bs were still around at that time, the jet has to be a 747

"one international flight" and "in the western part of the US" point to Stapleton Intl in Denver, if we're looking for a CO 747 destination


A brave start, J, but I'm thinking you may not have flown into Denver's Stapleton very often. It was my hometown airport through much of the 60s and 70s and the tower definitely doesn't have DENVER written down the side in large blue letters that light up at night.

Also, keep in mind the movie was made in the 1970s - I don't know the exact year. Wait! I just checked on imdb and it came out in 1975 which means it was probably filmed in 1974. I don't believe the airport in question has ever had scheduled 747 service however, and - here's another hint - the international flight that I'm aware of operated only a fairly short distance to its initial destination over the border before continuing on.

Please - guess again!

P.S. Continental didn't retire its 720Bs until 1974.
And now if you'll excuse me I'm off to prepare a killer chicken, brown rice, black beans, corn, cilantro, onions, freshly chopped jalapeños and cheese burrito, to be enjoyed with a can or two od Dale's Pale Ale from Longmont, Colorado. Hasta Mañana!

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Old Feb 12, 16, 12:19 am
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awright ...
Originally Posted by Seat 2A View Post
you may not have flown into Denver's Stapleton very often. It was my hometown airport through much of the 60s and 70s and the tower definitely doesn't have DENVER written down the side in large blue letters that light up at night.
true, I only transited DEN (Stapleton) in Mar 73 and Dec 76, both in the daytime

Originally Posted by Seat 2A View Post
I don't believe the airport in question has ever had scheduled 747 service however...
ok, that rules out Las Vegas (which strikes me as a good candidate for a tower displaying the city name ...)
Originally Posted by Seat 2A View Post
here's another hint - the international flight that I'm aware of operated only a fairly short distance to its initial destination over the border
so I'm left with Tucson? El Paso? Albuquerque? I really can't imagine lights on the tower at any of these ...

Originally Posted by Seat 2A View Post
... chicken, brown rice, black beans, corn, cilantro, onions, freshly chopped jalapeños and cheese burrito
that sounds REALLY good; I'd enjoy adding guacamole and a roasted chipotle salsa, but I know not everyone favors those tastes
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Old Feb 12, 16, 5:55 am
  #8352  
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Originally Posted by jrl767 View Post
Awright ... so I'm left with Tucson? El Paso? Albuquerque? I really can't imagine lights on the tower at any of these ...

Tucson it is! I'm well familiar with the lighted tower as one of my favorite ways to fly from Denver to Los Angeles back in the seventies was to fly Continental, routing through El Paso at no extra charge. Between ELP and LAX I'd hop on CO 56, booked FN (Night First Class at day coach prices). This flight originated out of Houston, stopped at Midland, then continued to El Paso where I'd board it and o0off we'd go at 11:55pm to Tucson, Phoenix and on into Los Angeles. The stop in Tucson was always memorable for the lack of a jetway and the light blue lights spelling TUCSON down the tower.

BTW, the aircraft in the movie was a beautiful Continental 720B. The international flight was an Aeronaves de Mexico DC-9 down to Hermosillo and beyond. Now that I think of it, Hughes Airwest may have operated down to La Paz and on to Mazatlán and Puerto Vallarta as well...

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Old Feb 12, 16, 8:41 am
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Originally Posted by Seat 2A View Post

6. As of late 1970, there were three states that had jet service from only one airline. Identify each state and the airline that provided service to that state.
PARTIALLY ANSWERED So far Maine (NE) and New Hampshire (NE) have been correctly identified. We need just one more state.
HINT: This state has the lowest point of highest elevation of any of the U.S. states

38. What kind of airplane would you be flying upon if you were to visit the “Hawaiian Lounge” inflight?
HINT: A stairway was required to access this lounge.
6. Hmmmm...."This state has the lowest point of highest elevation of any of the U.S. states". This sounds like a location in the Florida panhandle that we use to drive past on our way to Panama City on family vacation back when I was a kid (and BTW, the old airport at Panama City was served by two airlines back then: National with 727s and Southern with DC9s). However, I really do not think the state we are looking for here is Florida!

So perhaps this was actually Delaware with service operated by Eastern into Wilmington (ILG).

38. Sure sounds like a Boeing 747-100.
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Old Feb 12, 16, 9:35 am
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Originally Posted by Seat 2A View Post

30. All of the airlines in the two groups listed below operated widebodied jets. What’s the difference between the airlines in group one as opposed to the airlines in group two?
Group 1: American, Continental, Eastern, United, TWA
Group 2: Delta, National, Northwest, Pan Am, Western
HINT: Think about the cabin configuration of each airline.
30. Ah, this may concern that wonderful but brief era on several airlines which featured.....the coach lounge.

I believe several of the Group 1 carriers had coach lounges on their aircraft. American certainly did on the B747-100 as I experienced this lounge in 1971 on a nonstop from SFO to ORD (my first 747 flight as some of you may recall). I seem to remember the AA 747 coach lounge even featured an electric piano (was it a Wurlitzer?). And I think Continental also had a coach lounge on their DC-10 aircraft.

So perhaps Eastern, United and TWA had coach lounges as well while DL, NA, NW, PA and WA did not.

But hey, I think Western did have a volcano on some of their DC-10 flights to Hawaii......
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Old Feb 12, 16, 11:11 am
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Your comment about the two shortest 747 routes being at least 600 miles was a give away to one of the answers: DL DTW-ATL, which is 602 miles long. DL operated DTW's first 747 service in Dec 1970, on the DTW-ATL and DTW-MIA routes.

My guess for the other 747 route would be DL ATL-DAL, which is slightly longer. I think DL's first 747 service in Oct 1970 was ATL-DAL-LAX.

The other airline flying DTW-CLE might be Northeast, on a DTW-CLE-BTV or MHT route, with DC-9 equipment.
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