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Old Timer's Airline Quiz and Discussion

Old Timer's Airline Quiz and Discussion

Old Dec 12, 15, 6:07 pm
  #7951  
 
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28. In 1977, this airline was proposing to initiate a new hub operation at Chicago Midway (MDW) with twin jet aircraft flying nonstop service to Buffalo, Cincinnati, Cleveland, Columbus, OH, Dayton, Des Moines, Detroit, Kansas City, Louisville, Memphis, Minneapolis/St. Paul, Omaha, Pittsburgh and St. Louis. And this was no start up operation: the air carrier in question had been operating scheduled flights for many years and was already serving Chicago O'Hare (ORD) at the time. However, their proposed new Midway hub never got off the ground. Identify the airline and the equipment they proposed to operate from MDW.
Mad guess ... Air Wisconsin. BAC One-Eleven
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Old Dec 12, 15, 8:54 pm
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Originally Posted by jlemon View Post
Plus, the above quiz item remains unanswered. So I will break this one up into three parts:

39-A. Identify all fifteen (15) California airports served by Golden Gate Airlines in 1981.

39-B. Name the northernmost destination served by Golden Gate in 1981.

39-C. Name the easternmost destination served by Golden Gate in 1981.
39B - Boise

39C - Also Boise
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Old Dec 13, 15, 7:02 am
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Originally Posted by WHBM View Post
Mad guess ... Air Wisconsin. BAC One-Eleven
My mad guess is North Central. Imagine how nice the concourses at MDW would have looked, with a line of Herman the Mallard clad DC-9s alongside them?
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Old Dec 13, 15, 7:50 am
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Originally Posted by WHBM View Post
Mad guess ... Air Wisconsin. BAC One-Eleven
28. Well, that's an excellent guess! However, it was not Air Wisconsin and the air carrier in question never operated the BAC One-Eleven.
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Old Dec 13, 15, 7:54 am
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Originally Posted by Indelaware View Post
39B - Boise

39C - Also Boise
39-B & 39-C. Ah, both incorrect.....and here's a hint: the northernmost and easternmost destinations served by Golden Gate Airlines were not in Idaho but were actually in different states.
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Old Dec 13, 15, 7:59 am
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Originally Posted by JoeDTW View Post
My mad guess is North Central. Imagine how nice the concourses at MDW would have looked, with a line of Herman the Mallard clad DC-9s alongside them?
28. Yet another great guess....and I'm a bit surprised NC has not been mentioned until now.

However, it was not North Central.
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Old Dec 13, 15, 11:51 am
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Originally Posted by jlemon View Post
28. Well, that's an excellent guess! However, it was not Air Wisconsin and the air carrier in question never operated the BAC One-Eleven.
Well, notwithstanding recent successes, I'm not going to guess Mexicana

1977 was when deregulation was coming, so there were all sorts of proposals. It was also when it was becoming apparent that the VFW-614 twinjet was turning out to be an absolute commercial fiasco, with not a single aircraft ever sold but the first 20 all manufactured. So possibly SOMEONE devised a network based on Midway with these aircraft leased at $1/month.

Originally Posted by jlemon View Post
And I'm pleased to report that I managed to finally put up our outdoor Christmas lights earlier this afternoon and also purchased a small Christmas tree today which is actually a living specimen: it's a beautiful little Norfolk pine which I shall plant in our backyard following the holidays.
Are live trees unusual in the US ? Ours is coming tomorrow, from http://www.polhill.co.uk/ which is out in the Kent countryside, and they grow them nearby on a north-facing hillside with otherwise poor soil. The WHBMmobile, being a sedan, albeit a reasonable size, is a bit of a squash to get a whole tree into, but there are some years of experience of so doing, and we also need it fairly small, to stand on top of the large chest of drawers to keep it free from the inquisitive fingers of Little Miss WHBM ! I think I've written in past years of the annual pilgrimage into the attic to recover the decorations, and the fortunate juxtaposition of the boxes of stored old aviation books, timetables, etc, which can cause it to be a lengthy expedition.

Outdoor lights are not unknown at private houses in Britain, but most just have them inside. Today's weather of low cloud and drizzle was pretty marginal for London City arrivals and is the sort of thing that would lead to water penetration, short circuits, and other problems with them.

You probably think this tree purchase has nothing to do with old airliners. However, the Garden Centre's location in the countryside was once the location for a serious major airport project, which construction actually started on. Anyone like to say which one ?

Last edited by WHBM; Dec 13, 15 at 12:19 pm
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Old Dec 13, 15, 12:44 pm
  #7958  
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Originally Posted by jlemon View Post
39-A. Identify all fifteen (15) California airports served by Golden Gate Airlines in 1981.
let's start with the big obvious ones
  1. Los Angeles (LAX)
  2. San Francisco (SFO)
  3. San Jose (SJC)
  4. Oakland (OAK)
  5. Sacramento (SMF)

    some cities that saw several daily UA 737s (and even the occasional DC-8) in the mid-1970s
  6. Bakersfield (BFL)
  7. Fresno (FAT)
  8. Merced (MCE)
  9. Modesto (MOD)
  10. Stockton (SCK)

    these just make sense from a "fill-in-the-blanks" standpoint as UA used to operate a number of flights to/from LAX and SFO
  11. Santa Barbara (SBA)
  12. Monterey (MRY)

    and these provide some coverage in the northern part of the state
  13. Redding (RDD)
  14. Eureka (ACV)

as for #15, Crescent City (CEC) has had on-and-off commercial service over the years, and I know at least one daily "Oregon Trail" milk run in each direction served Visalia (VIS) ... I'll speculate CEC for now
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Old Dec 13, 15, 1:53 pm
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Originally Posted by jlemon View Post
39-B & 39-C. Ah, both incorrect.....and here's a hint: the northernmost and easternmost destinations served by Golden Gate Airlines were not in Idaho but were actually in different states.
I believe that Boise would be correct in early 1981. However, after the merger with Swift Aire, Golden Gate expanded to new cities not previously served by either airline.

The easternmost would have been probably Grand Junction, CO. I guess that the northern most would have been served from Boise which means that it would likely have been either Spokane, WA or Pendelton, OR. (I'm quite certain they never go to Seattle or Portland). I'll go with Pendelton, just because it is smaller.

Like many airlines, over aggressive expansion led Golden Gate to fail.

Originally Posted by jrl767 View Post
let's start with the big obvious ones
  1. Los Angeles (LAX)
  2. San Francisco (SFO)
  3. San Jose (SJC)
  4. Oakland (OAK)
  5. Sacramento (SMF)

    some cities that saw several daily UA 737s (and even the occasional DC-8) in the mid-1970s
  6. Bakersfield (BFL)
  7. Fresno (FAT)
  8. Merced (MCE)
  9. Modesto (MOD)
  10. Stockton (SCK)

    these just make sense from a "fill-in-the-blanks" standpoint as UA used to operate a number of flights to/from LAX and SFO
  11. Santa Barbara (SBA)
  12. Monterey (MRY)

    and these provide some coverage in the northern part of the state
  13. Redding (RDD)
  14. Eureka (ACV)

as for #15, Crescent City (CEC) has had on-and-off commercial service over the years, and I know at least one daily "Oregon Trail" milk run in each direction served Visalia (VIS) ... I'll speculate CEC for now
I seem to recall that Golden Gate served Lake Tahoo (TVL) which I thought was odd as they also flew to Reno.

I think the total count of 15 cities might be a bit low if one counts cities served by Golden Gate at any point in 1981.

Last edited by Indelaware; Dec 13, 15 at 2:02 pm
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Old Dec 13, 15, 2:18 pm
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Originally Posted by WHBM View Post
Well, notwithstanding recent successes, I'm not going to guess Mexicana

1977 was when deregulation was coming, so there were all sorts of proposals. It was also when it was becoming apparent that the VFW-614 twinjet was turning out to be an absolute commercial fiasco, with not a single aircraft ever sold but the first 20 all manufactured. So possibly SOMEONE devised a network based on Midway with these aircraft leased at $1/month.

Are live trees unusual in the US ?

Outdoor lights are not unknown at private houses in Britain, but most just have them inside. Today's weather of low cloud and drizzle was pretty marginal for London City arrivals and is the sort of thing that would lead to water penetration, short circuits, and other problems with them.
28. Ah, Mexicana did serve Chicago O'Hare....but I do not think Alfred Kahn had them in mind with regard to domestic deregulation!

And as for the interesting VFW-614, well, no, it is not the aircraft type we are looking for here. Here's a hint: the equipment in question was manufactured in Long Beach.

I do not believe live Christmas trees are all that common here in the U.S. as it appears most folks go for fresh cut trees with artificial trees also being prevalent. Outdoor lights are quite common. We experienced a delay here with regard to getting ours up after Lady K commented to me that she thought the display I had put in place last year appeared to be "haphazardly conceived". Several discussions then followed before I once again took matters into my own hands and tried something different. It now appears our new and exciting but still traditional outdoor display is acceptable to her.

Meantime, our weather is very lively here at the moment as there is a formidable squall line out ahead of a strong cold front now bearing down on us from the west. We've had very gusty winds ahead of this storm complex but, thankfully, my outdoor Christmas lights have not yet been affected.

Should you wish to view on radar what's headed our way here in south Louisiana......

www.katc.com , select "WEATHER" and then select "Interactive StormTracker"

Last edited by jlemon; Dec 13, 15 at 2:23 pm
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Old Dec 13, 15, 2:30 pm
  #7961  
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28 (MDW): Continental, DC9-30?

late edit: Page 200!

Last edited by jrl767; Dec 13, 15 at 3:16 pm
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Old Dec 13, 15, 2:35 pm
  #7962  
 
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Originally Posted by jrl767 View Post
let's start with the big obvious ones
  1. Los Angeles (LAX)
  2. San Francisco (SFO)
  3. San Jose (SJC)
  4. Oakland (OAK)
  5. Sacramento (SMF)

    All correct with the exception of Oakland (OAK) which is incorrect.


    some cities that saw several daily UA 737s (and even the occasional DC-8) in the mid-1970s
  6. Bakersfield (BFL)
  7. Fresno (FAT)
  8. Merced (MCE)
  9. Modesto (MOD)
  10. Stockton (SCK)

    All correct!

    these just make sense from a "fill-in-the-blanks" standpoint as UA used to operate a number of flights to/from LAX and SFO
  11. Santa Barbara (SBA)
  12. Monterey (MRY)

    Both correct!

    and these provide some coverage in the northern part of the state
  13. Redding (RDD)
  14. Eureka (ACV)

    Both incorrect.


as for #15, Crescent City (CEC) has had on-and-off commercial service over the years, and I know at least one daily "Oregon Trail" milk run in each direction served Visalia (VIS) ... I'll speculate CEC for now.

Crescent City (CEC) and Visalia (VIS) are both incorrect.


So we are looking for four (4) more destinations in California.

Last edited by jlemon; Dec 13, 15 at 3:04 pm
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Old Dec 13, 15, 3:00 pm
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Originally Posted by Indelaware View Post

The easternmost would have been probably Grand Junction, CO. I guess that the northern most would have been served from Boise which means that it would likely have been either Spokane, WA or Pendelton, OR. (I'm quite certain they never go to Seattle or Portland). I'll go with Pendelton, just because it is smaller.

I seem to recall that Golden Gate served Lake Tahoo (TVL) which I thought was odd as they also flew to Reno.

I think the total count of 15 cities might be a bit low if one counts cities served by Golden Gate at any point in 1981.
Grand Junction (GJT) and Pendleton (PDT) are both correct!

BTW, both of these small cities were legacy destinations for United Airlines as well. In the winter of 1976 during ski season, United was operating thirteen flights into Grand Junction every Saturday with B727-100, B727-200 and DC8 equipment nonstop from ORD, DEN, LAS, LAX and SFO. At the same time, it was possible for one to board a United B727-100 in first class in Pendleton and fly direct to Washington D.C. via stops in BOI, SLC and ORD. UA 278 (which originated at PDX) departed PDT daily at 11:28am and arrived in DCA at 10:00pm.

Golden Gate did serve Lake Tahoe (TVL) at one point with DHC-7 Dash 7 equipment (and even flew between TVL and RNO).....but not at this particular time in 1981.

And the Golden Gate route map which served as the basis for this quiz item (which also contains the Swift Aire routes) lists fifteen California cities served at this time in 1981.
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Old Dec 13, 15, 3:04 pm
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Originally Posted by jrl767 View Post
28 (MDW): Continental, DC9-30?
28. Ah, Continental is incorrect.

However, the DC9-30 was one of the aircraft types that the airline in question would have operated from Midway.
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Old Dec 13, 15, 4:50 pm
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Originally Posted by jlemon View Post
However, the DC9-30 was one of the aircraft types that the airline in question would have operated from Midway.
Right, let's see if I can nail this one.

As far as I can predict (not having a 1977 timetable) the only DC-9 operators at the time who ran into O'Hare were Allegheny, Delta, Eastern, North Central and Ozark.

Allegheny, North Central and Ozark have already been dismissed.

It's stated that the airline is established at ORD so no new operator.

That leaves Eastern and Delta.

It's stated that the aircraft to be used are DC-9, and later that the DC-9-30 was ONE of the types. Delta only had the DC-9-30 by 1977, having sold their shorter ones, while Eastern by 1977 had the DC-9-10, DC-9-30 and DC-9-50. Three types.

So I go for Eastern, with those three types.

Last edited by WHBM; Dec 13, 15 at 4:59 pm
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