Old Timer's Airline Quiz and Discussion.
Dec 1, 2015, 9:22 am
#7891
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After the marketing agreement with Fairchild was dissolved, Fokker set up Fokker USA and had a bit more success with the F28. New aircraft were sold to Mid Pacific, Pilgrim (just one), Piedmont, Altair and Empire. The last three all merged up and the aircraft ended up with US Air. There were a larger number of secondhand sales, Piedmont buying the bulk of the old Garuda fleet and ended up with over 40 in their fleet. The Garuda aircraft had been traded to Fokker for larger models so were a further Fokker sale.
Canadian Airlines also built up a good number of secondhand ones at the end which passed to Air Canada but didn't last too much longer there. These were all secondhand, as although Transair was merged into Canadian, they had sold their pair, the only new ones in Canada, well before this, to New Guinea, where they were doubtless flown by Australian pilots well familiar with the type from Fokker's many Antipodean sales.
Canadian Airlines also built up a good number of secondhand ones at the end which passed to Air Canada but didn't last too much longer there. These were all secondhand, as although Transair was merged into Canadian, they had sold their pair, the only new ones in Canada, well before this, to New Guinea, where they were doubtless flown by Australian pilots well familiar with the type from Fokker's many Antipodean sales.
Last edited by WHBM; Dec 1, 2015 at 9:29 am
Dec 1, 2015, 11:42 am
#7892
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6. Over the years, a number of airlines have operated jet service into Burbank Airport (BUR, now Bob Hope Airport) that now no longer do so. Some air carriers merged with other airlines, other airlines pulled their mainline service from BUR and a number of carriers simply went out of business. One airline that no longer operates mainline jet service into BUR is United (with UA actually operating B767-200 aircraft nonstop BUR-ORD back in the mid 1980's). I've identified at least seventeen (17) other airlines that operated jet equipment into BUR in the past but now no longer do so for whatever reason. Name as many of these air carriers as you can. Mostly answered - still looking for at least two more airlines. See post #7857 for a list of the correctly identified air carriers
7. In 1948, Continental was operating a daily flight with Douglas DC-3 equipment from Denver to San Antonio. This flight made no less than ten (10) intermediate stops en route. Identify them all in the order in which they were made. ANSWERED
11. In 1963, this U.S. air carrier billed itself as being "THE NATION'S MOST PROGRESSIVE AIRLINE". Name this air carrier. ANSWERED
15. And speaking of international service in 1967 from the U.S., only one air carrier was flying nonstop from Miami (MIA) to Cozumel (CZM) at this time. Name the airline and the aircraft. ANSWERED
Last edited by jlemon; Dec 12, 2015 at 10:38 am Reason: "answered" update
Dec 1, 2015, 11:49 am
#7893
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Before we leave the 1960's and move into the 1970's, here's a bonus quiz item:
21. It's a beautiful summer morning in 1967 and you are in Pasadena, California. The phone rings and a request is made: can you attend an urgent business dinner tonight in Eureka, California? Well, of course you can! You quickly research flight options from southern California to Eureka/Arcata (ACV) and discover there are no nonstops. However, there is a direct, one stop flight departing daily at 1:10pm that will get you into ACV in plenty of time to make the dinner meeting.
So with this in mind, answer the following questions: ANSWERED
A) What airport will you be departing from? BUR
B) What airline will you be traveling on? Pacific Air Lines
C) What is the aircraft type you'll be flying on? B727-100
D) What is the location of the intermediate stop? SFO
And now....
Quiz Items From The 1970's
22. It's 1970 and you have just checked in for a flight in first class from Montreal to Buenos Aires that departs once a week every Wednesday. Four (4) intermediate stops will be made en route. And when you ask the ticket agent what type of aircraft you'll be flying on, you're told it will be a "Spacemaster". Identify the air carrier, all four stops in the order in which they will be made and also name the aircraft. ANSWERED
28. In 1977, this airline was proposing to initiate a new hub operation at Chicago Midway (MDW) with twin jet aircraft flying nonstop service to Buffalo, Cincinnati, Cleveland, Columbus, OH, Dayton, Des Moines, Detroit, Kansas City, Louisville, Memphis, Minneapolis/St. Paul, Omaha, Pittsburgh and St. Louis. And this was no start up operation: the air carrier in question had been operating scheduled flights for many years and was already serving Chicago O'Hare (ORD) at the time. However, their proposed new Midway hub never got off the ground. Identify the airline and the equipment they proposed to operate from MDW. Hint: it was not Allegheny, Piedmont or United
31. In 1979, three airlines were operating jet service on the short hop from New Orleans (MSY) to Baton Rouge (BTR). Name all three air carriers and also identify the respective equipment they flew on the route. ANSWERED
32. Also in 1979, Braniff International was operating Boeing 747 service nonstop from Los Angeles (LAX) to four (4) destinations. None of these flights were operated on a daily basis. Identify all four destinations. ANSWERED
Just one of the above quiz items is still looking for an answer as well.....
21. It's a beautiful summer morning in 1967 and you are in Pasadena, California. The phone rings and a request is made: can you attend an urgent business dinner tonight in Eureka, California? Well, of course you can! You quickly research flight options from southern California to Eureka/Arcata (ACV) and discover there are no nonstops. However, there is a direct, one stop flight departing daily at 1:10pm that will get you into ACV in plenty of time to make the dinner meeting.
So with this in mind, answer the following questions: ANSWERED
A) What airport will you be departing from? BUR
B) What airline will you be traveling on? Pacific Air Lines
C) What is the aircraft type you'll be flying on? B727-100
D) What is the location of the intermediate stop? SFO
And now....
Quiz Items From The 1970's
22. It's 1970 and you have just checked in for a flight in first class from Montreal to Buenos Aires that departs once a week every Wednesday. Four (4) intermediate stops will be made en route. And when you ask the ticket agent what type of aircraft you'll be flying on, you're told it will be a "Spacemaster". Identify the air carrier, all four stops in the order in which they will be made and also name the aircraft. ANSWERED
28. In 1977, this airline was proposing to initiate a new hub operation at Chicago Midway (MDW) with twin jet aircraft flying nonstop service to Buffalo, Cincinnati, Cleveland, Columbus, OH, Dayton, Des Moines, Detroit, Kansas City, Louisville, Memphis, Minneapolis/St. Paul, Omaha, Pittsburgh and St. Louis. And this was no start up operation: the air carrier in question had been operating scheduled flights for many years and was already serving Chicago O'Hare (ORD) at the time. However, their proposed new Midway hub never got off the ground. Identify the airline and the equipment they proposed to operate from MDW. Hint: it was not Allegheny, Piedmont or United
31. In 1979, three airlines were operating jet service on the short hop from New Orleans (MSY) to Baton Rouge (BTR). Name all three air carriers and also identify the respective equipment they flew on the route. ANSWERED
32. Also in 1979, Braniff International was operating Boeing 747 service nonstop from Los Angeles (LAX) to four (4) destinations. None of these flights were operated on a daily basis. Identify all four destinations. ANSWERED
Just one of the above quiz items is still looking for an answer as well.....
Last edited by jlemon; Dec 12, 2015 at 10:40 am Reason: "answered" updates
Dec 1, 2015, 12:38 pm
#7894
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 4,187
28. In 1977, this airline was proposing to initiate a new hub operation at Chicago Midway (MDW) with twin jet aircraft flying nonstop service to Buffalo, Cincinnati, Cleveland, Columbus, OH, Dayton, Des Moines, Detroit, Kansas City, Louisville, Memphis, Minneapolis/St. Paul, Omaha, Pittsburgh and St. Louis. And this was no start up operation: the air carrier in question had been operating scheduled flights for many years and was already serving Chicago O'Hare (ORD) at the time. However, their proposed new Midway hub never got off the ground. Identify the airline and the equipment they proposed to operate from MDW.
Might it have been a proposal by UA to fly 737s in order to try to scare away the proposed ML?
Delta, Southern, Republic (airline formed when Southern merged with North Central), and Texas International.
Aircraft I'm less sure about. I'd guess DL with 727-200, SO/RC with DC-9-14/15, and Texas International with DC-9-10.
Last edited by Indelaware; Dec 1, 2015 at 12:56 pm
Dec 1, 2015, 1:37 pm
#7895
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- Colorado Springs (COS)
- Pueblo (PUB)
- Santa Fe (SAF)
- Albuquerque (ABQ)
- Alamogordo (ALM)
- El Paso (ELP) ... everything east of here is a wild guess
- Carlsbad (CNM)
- Hobbs (HOB)
- Midland/Odessa (MAF)
- San Angelo (SJT)
Dec 1, 2015, 5:10 pm
#7896
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28. Well it is not the airline you are thinking about, but for the fact that you want an existing airline: Midway Airlines (ML) which didn't start flying until deregulation 1978 (it received its certificate prior to deregulation but didn't the actually start flying until deregulation was in effect). I seem to recall that it was formed right around Jimmy Carter's election (1976), perhaps in anticipation of deregulation. Once it started flying, it flew DC-9s.
Might it have been a proposal by UA to fly 737s in order to try to scare away the proposed ML?
31. It think the technical answer is four airlines:
Delta, Southern, Republic (airline formed when Southern merged with North Central), and Texas International.
Aircraft I'm less sure about. I'd guess DL with 727-200, SO/RC with DC-9-14/15, and Texas International with DC-9-10.
Might it have been a proposal by UA to fly 737s in order to try to scare away the proposed ML?
31. It think the technical answer is four airlines:
Delta, Southern, Republic (airline formed when Southern merged with North Central), and Texas International.
Aircraft I'm less sure about. I'd guess DL with 727-200, SO/RC with DC-9-14/15, and Texas International with DC-9-10.
31. Delta, Republic and Texas International are all correct! DL was operating two flights a day with 72S equipment, RC was also operating two flights a day, one with a DC9 and the other with a D9S, and TI was operating one daily flight with a D9S. Block time on the MSY to BTR route ranged from 23 to 25 minutes.
Last edited by jlemon; Dec 1, 2015 at 5:24 pm Reason: additional info
Dec 1, 2015, 5:31 pm
#7897
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I was born in Albuquerque (albeit several years after 1948) and vaguely remember CO DC3s on southbound milk runs
- Colorado Springs (COS)
- Pueblo (PUB)
- Santa Fe (SAF)
- Albuquerque (ABQ)
- Alamogordo (ALM)
- El Paso (ELP) ... everything east of here is a wild guess
- Carlsbad (CNM)
- Hobbs (HOB)
- Midland/Odessa (MAF)
- San Angelo (SJT)
Denver
* Colorado Springs
* Pueblo
* __________
* Santa Fe
* Albuquerque
* El Paso
* Carlsbad
* Hobbs
* Midland/Odessa
* __________
* San Angelo
San Antonio
Last edited by jlemon; Dec 2, 2015 at 7:07 am
Dec 2, 2015, 10:28 am
#7898
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 4,187
7. An excellent start! And I screwed up a bit here: there were actually eleven (11) intermediate stops en route. So here are your correct guesses as well as the stops we are still looking for:
Denver
* Colorado Springs
* Pueblo
* __________
* Santa Fe
* Albuquerque
* El Paso
* Carlsbad
* Hobbs
* Midland/Odessa
* __________
* San Angelo
San Antonio
Denver
* Colorado Springs
* Pueblo
* __________
* Santa Fe
* Albuquerque
* El Paso
* Carlsbad
* Hobbs
* Midland/Odessa
* __________
* San Angelo
San Antonio
Lets think about this a different way. Perhaps the milk run was could be viewed as comprised as two milk runs patched together as one - one from Denver to some point, X, that it would make sense to stop at Colorado Springs and Pueblo en-route to such that X is also a point where it would make sense to depart from flying towards San Antonio via Santa Fe, Albuquerque, El Paso, Carlsbad, Hobbs, Midland/Odessa, an unknown point, and San Angelo. If so... the larger Las Vegas (NV) would make sense.
Now, we must think what's between Midland and San Angelo. My guess is Big Spring (but it could be Abilene).
Would the complete run be?
Denver
* Colorado Springs
* Pueblo
* Las Vegas, NV
* Santa Fe
* Albuquerque
* El Paso
* Carlsbad
* Hobbs
* Midland/Odessa
* Big Spring
* San Angelo
San Antonio
Dec 2, 2015, 11:32 am
#7899
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looking at a map, there's no realistic way this CO flight would have gone 300 or so miles (remember, that's ~2 hours in a DC-3) to LAS, only to come back eastbound again
I think either of the first two options is reasonable, so I'll weigh in with a vote for the other Vegas in my home state
I think either of the first two options is reasonable, so I'll weigh in with a vote for the other Vegas in my home state
Dec 2, 2015, 12:11 pm
#7900
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 782
[I][B]Before we leave the 1960's and move into the 1970's, here's a bonus quiz item:
21. It's a beautiful summer morning in 1967 and you are in Pasadena, California. The phone rings and a request is made: can you attend an urgent business dinner tonight in Eureka, California? Well, of course you can! You quickly research flight options from southern California to Eureka/Arcata (ACV) and discover there are no nonstops. However, there is a direct, one stop flight departing daily at 1:10pm that will get you into ACV in plenty of time to make the dinner meeting.
So with this in mind, answer the following questions:
A) What airport will you be departing from?
B) What airline will you be traveling on?
C) What is the aircraft type you'll be flying on?
D) What is the location of the intermediate stop?
And now....
Quiz Items From The 1970's
22. It's 1970 and you have just checked in for a flight in first class from Montreal to Buenos Aires that departs once a week every Wednesday. Four (4) intermediate stops will be made en route. And when you ask the ticket agent what type of aircraft you'll be flying on, you're told it will be a "Spacemaster". Identify the air carrier, all four stops in the order in which they will be made and also name the aircraft.
21. It's a beautiful summer morning in 1967 and you are in Pasadena, California. The phone rings and a request is made: can you attend an urgent business dinner tonight in Eureka, California? Well, of course you can! You quickly research flight options from southern California to Eureka/Arcata (ACV) and discover there are no nonstops. However, there is a direct, one stop flight departing daily at 1:10pm that will get you into ACV in plenty of time to make the dinner meeting.
So with this in mind, answer the following questions:
A) What airport will you be departing from?
B) What airline will you be traveling on?
C) What is the aircraft type you'll be flying on?
D) What is the location of the intermediate stop?
And now....
Quiz Items From The 1970's
22. It's 1970 and you have just checked in for a flight in first class from Montreal to Buenos Aires that departs once a week every Wednesday. Four (4) intermediate stops will be made en route. And when you ask the ticket agent what type of aircraft you'll be flying on, you're told it will be a "Spacemaster". Identify the air carrier, all four stops in the order in which they will be made and also name the aircraft.
21: Pacific Airlines 727-100, LAX-SJC-ACV
22: CP Air, DC-8-63, YUL-YYZ-MEX-LIM-SCL-EZE. At one time, CP Air flights to Latin America also stopped in YQG, but I think the YQG stop was gone by 1970.
Dec 2, 2015, 12:48 pm
#7901
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My first guess would be to put either Durango or Las Vegas, NM inbetween Pueblo and Santa Fe but both seem just too much of a milk run.
Lets think about this a different way. Perhaps the milk run was could be viewed as comprised as two milk runs patched together as one - one from Denver to some point, X, that it would make sense to stop at Colorado Springs and Pueblo en-route to such that X is also a point where it would make sense to depart from flying towards San Antonio via Santa Fe, Albuquerque, El Paso, Carlsbad, Hobbs, Midland/Odessa, an unknown point, and San Angelo. If so... the larger Las Vegas (NV) would make sense.
Now, we must think what's between Midland and San Angelo. My guess is Big Spring (but it could be Abilene).
Would the complete run be?
Denver
* Colorado Springs
* Pueblo
* Las Vegas, NV
* Santa Fe
* Albuquerque
* El Paso
* Carlsbad
* Hobbs
* Midland/Odessa
* Big Spring
* San Angelo
San Antonio
Lets think about this a different way. Perhaps the milk run was could be viewed as comprised as two milk runs patched together as one - one from Denver to some point, X, that it would make sense to stop at Colorado Springs and Pueblo en-route to such that X is also a point where it would make sense to depart from flying towards San Antonio via Santa Fe, Albuquerque, El Paso, Carlsbad, Hobbs, Midland/Odessa, an unknown point, and San Angelo. If so... the larger Las Vegas (NV) would make sense.
Now, we must think what's between Midland and San Angelo. My guess is Big Spring (but it could be Abilene).
Would the complete run be?
Denver
* Colorado Springs
* Pueblo
* Las Vegas, NV
* Santa Fe
* Albuquerque
* El Paso
* Carlsbad
* Hobbs
* Midland/Odessa
* Big Spring
* San Angelo
San Antonio
Dec 2, 2015, 12:51 pm
#7902
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Posts: 10,795
looking at a map, there's no realistic way this CO flight would have gone 300 or so miles (remember, that's ~2 hours in a DC-3) to LAS, only to come back eastbound again
I think either of the first two options is reasonable, so I'll weigh in with a vote for the other Vegas in my home state
I think either of the first two options is reasonable, so I'll weigh in with a vote for the other Vegas in my home state
Dec 2, 2015, 1:06 pm
#7903
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: London, England.
Programs: BA
Posts: 8,476
Perhaps the milk run was could be viewed as comprised as two milk runs patched together as one - one from Denver to some point, X, that it would make sense to stop at Colorado Springs and Pueblo en-route to such that X is also a point where it would make sense to depart from flying towards San Antonio via Santa Fe, Albuquerque, El Paso, Carlsbad, Hobbs, Midland/Odessa, an unknown point, and San Angelo. If so... the larger Las Vegas (NV) would make sense.
Passenger loads were often thin, and the regrettably frequent accident reports of the period can often show only a couple of passengers on board. A fascinating account of the period is "The Golden Years of Flying" very much in the same area but actually mainly about Frontier Airlines (with a bit on B29s in the Pacific, which of course was the background of many pilots of the period). We have discussed this book a while back and I think one or two of you actually bought it.
Dec 2, 2015, 8:01 pm
#7904
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However, the departure airport was not LAX nor was SJC the intermediate stop.
So please guess again!
22. CP Air operating a stretched Super DC8 is correct!
However, YYZ was not the first intermediate stop: it was actually Windsor (YQG). Here's the sched.....
CP 522: Montreal 18:15 - 19:40 Windsor 20:20 - 22:25 Mexico City 23:59 - 06:20 Lima 07:20 - 11:30 Santiago 12:15 - 14:55 Buenos Aires
Op: Weds. only
Equip: D8S "Spacemaster"
Dec 2, 2015, 8:31 pm
#7905
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Join Date: Nov 2009
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Posts: 21,371
21- well, a few questions back we accounted for a PC 727 at BUR, and since we now know this flight didn't serve SJC I'd posit that SFO was the enroute stop (and I'll offer OAK as backup)