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Old Timer's Airline Quiz and Discussion

Old Timer's Airline Quiz and Discussion

Old Nov 21, 15, 4:36 pm
  #7801  
 
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Originally Posted by Seat 2A View Post
Thank you jlemon for this impressive collection of questions. I'll have a stab at a couple...

12. In 1964, Eastern Provincial Airways was operating only one aircraft type on its routes in eastern Canada. Identify this equipment.

Let's go with the ubiquitous DC-3

13. In 1967, this airline was operating service twice a week from Montego Bay (MBJ) to Mexico City (MEX) with a four engine jet. This flight made two intermediate stops en route. Name the air carrier as well as the two stops in the order in which they were made and also identify the aircraft.


This sounds like Pan Am, likely routing via Kingston and Merida with a 707
12. Ah, no, Seat 2A....it was not the Douglas DC-3.

13. Well, you have the intermediate stops correct and in the right order. However, the airline was not Pan Am and the aircraft was not a Boeing 707.

Please guess again, sir!
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Old Nov 21, 15, 4:48 pm
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Originally Posted by jrl767 View Post
I think this sounds like a scenic tour of the Great Lakes on an American Airlines 727-23, with stops being Chicago (ORD), Detroit (DTW), Buffalo (BUF), Rochester (ROC), and Syracuse (SYR)
16. American is correct; however,the equipment operated on the flight was not a Boeing 727-100. Here's how you did concerning the stops:

#1 - Chicago (ORD) Correct!

#2 - Detroit (DTW) Correct!

#3 - Buffalo (BUF) Incorrect

#4 - Rochester (ROC) Correct although this was actually stop #3

#5 - Syracuse (SYR) Correct although this was actually stop #4
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Old Nov 21, 15, 5:14 pm
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Originally Posted by jrl767 View Post
I've actually got two candidates here, both twinjets that were built in Long Beach CA ... so I'm going to posit the first in alphabetical order and save the second for backup if I need it:
Allegheny, operating a DC9-30 via Indianapolis (IND), Columbus (CMH), Pittsburgh (PIT), Philadelphia (PHL), and LaGuardia (LGA)
20. Allegheny Airlines is correct and I believe the McDonnell Douglas DC9-31 is correct as well.....although the AL timetable simply states "Douglas DC-9 Fan Jet" and the airline did operate at least one Douglas DC9-14 during the late 1960's (leased from Bonanza, I think). What the heck, we'll go with the D9S here.

Here's how you did with regard to the intermediate stops:

#1 - Indianapolis (IND) Correct!

#2 - Columbus (CMH) Incorrect

#3 - Pittsburgh (PIT) Correct!

#4 - Philadelphia (PHL) Correct!

#5 - New York LaGuardia (LGA) Incorrect

Last edited by jlemon; Nov 21, 15 at 5:25 pm
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Old Nov 21, 15, 10:41 pm
  #7804  
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16: so we have STL-ORD-DTW-ROC-SYR-xxx-BOS ... the only AA destination between SYR and BOS would have been Albany (ALB), and since (a) the elapsed times don't line up with an Electra's capability and (b) there's no way AA would have put a 707 on that milk run, I'm thinking the equipment must have been a BAC 1-11-400

20: AL D9S STL-IND-xxx-PIT-PHL-yyy-PVD ... how about xxx = Dayton (DAY) and yyy = Hartford (BDL)


just for fun, I have a wild-card guess for the only aircraft in EP's fleet (q12) ... the Handley Page Herald
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Old Nov 22, 15, 8:50 am
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Originally Posted by jrl767 View Post
16: so we have STL-ORD-DTW-ROC-SYR-xxx-BOS ... the only AA destination between SYR and BOS would have been Albany (ALB), and since (a) the elapsed times don't line up with an Electra's capability and (b) there's no way AA would have put a 707 on that milk run, I'm thinking the equipment must have been a BAC 1-11-400

20: AL D9S STL-IND-xxx-PIT-PHL-yyy-PVD ... how about xxx = Dayton (DAY) and yyy = Hartford (BDL)


just for fun, I have a wild-card guess for the only aircraft in EP's fleet (q12) ... the Handley Page Herald
12. The Handley Page Dart Herald turboprop is correct according to the Eastern Provincial Oct. 26, 1964 system timetable. The airline did operate other aircraft types but at this time only the Herald was being flown in scheduled service. The DC-3 would reappear later and the Carvair was also operated in scheduled service later on. By 1970, Eastern Provincial (PV) was operating new Boeing 737-200 aircraft. Meantime, the airline eventually replaced the Herald with the Hawker Siddeley HS748 before PV was merged into CP.

16. Correct!

20. Correct!

Last edited by jlemon; Nov 22, 15 at 10:07 am Reason: additional info
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Old Nov 22, 15, 11:53 am
  #7806  
 
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Originally Posted by jlemon View Post
13. Well, you have the intermediate stops correct and in the right order. However, the airline was not Pan Am and the aircraft was not a Boeing 707.
I think it was Mexicana with a Comet.

1. Identify the only turboprop aircraft type ever operated in scheduled passenger service between San Francisco (SFO) and Honolulu (HNL). Also name the air carrier which operated this equipment on the route.
BOAC Bristol Britannia.

8. Correct! I believe the Canadair North Star was a Canadian manufactured version of the Douglas DC-4 and was equipped with Rolls-Royce Merlin engines
.
The Canadair was one of those aircraft which seemed to have different names everywhere. Canadian carriers called it the "North Star", while UK ones (not only BOAC the original purchaser but also all the independents they were inherited by) only called it the "Argonaut". Canadair themselves principally called it the Canadair Four, or C-4. Sometimes it turned up as the DC-4M (M for Merlin engine).

It was a bit more than a Canadian DC-4, with different systems, pressurised (so more like a DC-6), and with the Rolls-Royce engines. Canadair had done subcontracting work for Douglas in WW2 and did get some design assistance from them. Canadair were prepared to accept UK currency for them, which the US manufacturers were not, so a large batch went to BOAC around 1949, which lasted on long-haul services way beyond initial expectations due to BOAC's succession of the pathetic Handley Page Hermes, the ill-fated Comet 1, and the Bristol Britannia which took years to get right. However, Canadian Pacific didn't take to them, selling theirs to Trans Canada after just a few years and substituting DC-6Bs instead.

Last edited by WHBM; Nov 22, 15 at 4:05 pm
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Old Nov 22, 15, 1:32 pm
  #7807  
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13. In 1967, this airline was operating service twice a week from Montego Bay (MBJ) to Mexico City (MEX) with a four engine jet. This flight made two intermediate stops en route. Name the air carrier as well as the two stops in the order in which they were made and also identify the aircraft.

My next guess would have been Lufthansa with a flight that came down out of New York - also with a 707. However, if it's not a 707, but it's still a four engine jetliner, that doesn't leave many choices. In fact, I see WHBM has already submitted above my next guess. Go WHBM!

Last edited by Seat 2A; Nov 22, 15 at 1:46 pm
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Old Nov 22, 15, 1:35 pm
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Originally Posted by WHBM View Post

I think it was Mexicana with a Comet.

BOAC Bristol Britannia.
Well, hello WHBM. I was hoping you might stop by (as someone has to keep yours truly from getting into too much trouble here).....

1. Correct! Here's a westbound sched from the April 24, 1960 BOAC system timetable....

BA 581: London 23:00 - 05:30 New York 07:30 - 13:25 San Francisco 17:00 - 21:35 Honolulu 23:00 - 04:05 Wake Island 4:50 - 08:15 Tokyo 09:45 - 16:20 Hong Kong
Equip: Britannia
Op: Mondays and Saturdays only

I believe BOAC had replaced the Britannia with a Boeing 707 by the next year which allowed the elimination of the technical stop at Wake Island.

13. Correct! Here's the complete schedule....

MX 305/304: MEX 11:30 - 13:05 MID 13:35 - 16:25 MBJ 16:50 - 17:15 KIN (MX 304) 18:15 - 19:15 MID 19:45 - 21:20 MEX
Equip: Comet 4C "Mexjet"
Op: Wednesdays and Sundays only

And thank you for your commentary concerning the Canadair North Star, which is an aircraft type that I'm obviously not very familiar with! It's also interesting to note the following which appeared in the August 1, 1951 Canadian Pacific system timetable:

"EQUIPMENT - Pacific Services: Pressurized Canadair C-41/DC-4"
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Old Nov 22, 15, 1:40 pm
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Originally Posted by Seat 2A View Post
13. In 1967, this airline was operating service twice a week from Montego Bay (MBJ) to Mexico City (MEX) with a four engine jet. This flight made two intermediate stops en route. Name the air carrier as well as the two stops in the order in which they were made and also identify the aircraft.

My next guess would have been Lufthansa - also with a 707. However, if it's not a 707, but it's still a four engine jetliner, that doesn't leave many choices. Let's go with Mexicana operating a Comet 4C.
13. Correct! And WHBM just came in ahead of you on this one - please see above!
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Old Nov 22, 15, 2:17 pm
  #7810  
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Originally Posted by jlemon View Post
9. In 1953, United Airlines was flying into five airports which were all located on islands. Name all five.
the three obvious ones are Honolulu, Idlewild, and LaGuardia ... for #4, I'm thinking that UA was serving Vancouver BC whose airport is on Sea Island south of the city ... and for #5 I'll guess that, in 1953, Oakland airport was actually on Alameda Island in SF Bay
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Old Nov 22, 15, 2:51 pm
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Originally Posted by jrl767 View Post
the three obvious ones are Honolulu, Idlewild, and LaGuardia ... for #4, I'm thinking that UA was serving Vancouver BC whose airport is on Sea Island south of the city ... and for #5 I'll guess that, in 1953, Oakland airport was actually on Alameda Island in SF Bay
9. Not bad! You've correctly guessed four out of five. However, we are not looking for Oakland (OAK) here, we are looking for another airport that is still in existence but no longer has any scheduled passenger service. And here's another hint: think short haul.
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Old Nov 22, 15, 2:53 pm
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Whoops! Dupe post....
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Old Nov 22, 15, 3:28 pm
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a tag-on from HNL to Hilo (ITO) is ~200 miles, certainly short-haul by today's standards but probably less so in 1953 (and I missed your caveat about "no scheduled passenger service" which would disqualify ITO in any case)

if you're talking "short haul" being ~35 miles (which probably doesn't even warrant air service today anyway), I'd say Catalina Island (Avalon, AVX) is about the only possibility
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Old Nov 22, 15, 4:19 pm
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Originally Posted by jrl767 View Post
a tag-on from HNL to Hilo (ITO) is ~200 miles, certainly short-haul by today's standards but probably less so in 1953 (and I missed your caveat about "no scheduled passenger service" which would disqualify ITO in any case)

if you're talking "short haul" being ~35 miles (which probably doesn't even warrant air service today anyway), I'd say Catalina Island (Avalon, AVX) is about the only possibility
9. Yep, it's Catalina Airport (AVX) a.k.a. Airport in the Sky. Note the harbor at Avalon was only served by seaplanes at the time as AVX is a bit of a drive on this very hilly island.

In 1953, United was operating two daily DC-3 flights on a round trip routing of LAX-LGB-AVX. The airport would later be served by Pacific Air Lines with DC-3s followed years later by Golden West with DHC-6 Twin Otter equipment. And last time I checked, AVX still had DC-3 service, although these flights do not carry passengers - only cargo.
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Old Nov 22, 15, 4:34 pm
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Originally Posted by jlemon View Post
... the Canadair North Star, which is an aircraft type that I'm obviously not very familiar with!
Well used across Canada, although in piston engine days at Trans Canada it always played second fiddle to their Constellation fleet, and didn't cross the Atlantic. There were a couple of operators in the Caribbean, including immediate post-revolution Cuba (Canadian spares and British engines to get round the embargo). This operation is little known, so here's a picture of one

https://www.flickr.com/photos/edk7/8561448663

[what strikes a Brit about this shot in Toronto is the ground support vehicle in front, a British Morris Minor 1000 car, ubiquitous in the UK and the colonies at the time (loads in Africa, New Zealand, etc) but I always thought never even marketed across North America].

However the last Canadairs in passenger service were with a little carrier Turks Air or (another name) Air Caicos, from Caribbean, who got a couple of ex-Canadian military ones and used them for the best part of 10 years from Providenciales over to Florida. Their last trip was in 1975, the final aircraft being broken up in Miami the next year. Anyone find them in an old OAG ?

The Rolls-Royce Merlin engine in the Canadair Argonaut/North Star was that from the WW2 RAF Spitfire fighter and Lancaster bomber, plus many other comparable types. BOAC and BEA pilots and base engineers for a generation after 1945 were ex-RAF WW2 personnel, and knew the engine intimately, compared to the likes of the R-2800, so the skills were all there to look after them, and I believe the main Canadian operators had comparable RCAF experience on the engine. They were generally regarded as more reliable than US-built radials, but when they did go wrong then it was typically a big job. The aircraft was notably noisy on the flight deck from all those exhausts in line, a later modification put the exhausts over on the side of the engine away from the fuselage to try and deal with this, but it was noted in retirement, alas too late, how many ex-BOAC Argonaut crews suffered from hearing problems.
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