Old Timer's Airline Quiz and Discussion.
Nov 7, 2015, 5:51 am
#7771
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* Baltimore (BWI)
* Philadelphia (PHL)
* Tampa (TPA)
Nov 7, 2015, 6:01 am
#7772
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I did some research and this is what I found in the August 1, 1968 Western Airlines system timetable:
"RC (stylized font) - THE ROYAL CANADIAN TO VANCOUVER B.C. - Executive Hostess - Gourmet dining with a special serving cart, tea service - both coach and First Class"
"WC (stylized font) - THE WESTERN CANADIAN TO CALIFORNIA - (Same special services as the Royal Canadian)"
And with that, we are off to northern California......
Nov 7, 2015, 6:46 am
#7773
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 782
Here's a bonus trivia question:
American Airlines was never as strong in Cleveland as United, but AA did fly to twelve cities non stop from Cleveland as of April 27, 1980. However, AA had just one DC-10 departure a day out of Cleveland. What city was it to?
I've always had a strong sentimental attachment to this timetable because I picked it up at AA's 1980 annual stockholder's meeting, which was held at the Detroit Plaza Hotel. I was twelve years old at the time, but Dad took the day off from work to take me there. At the meeting, I summoned up every ounce of self confidence I had, and introduced myself to AA's then president, Al Casey. To my surprise, Mr. Casey spent a few minutes chatting with me, and even sent me some airplane pictures afterward. Mr. Casey was truly a classy person.
American Airlines was never as strong in Cleveland as United, but AA did fly to twelve cities non stop from Cleveland as of April 27, 1980. However, AA had just one DC-10 departure a day out of Cleveland. What city was it to?
I've always had a strong sentimental attachment to this timetable because I picked it up at AA's 1980 annual stockholder's meeting, which was held at the Detroit Plaza Hotel. I was twelve years old at the time, but Dad took the day off from work to take me there. At the meeting, I summoned up every ounce of self confidence I had, and introduced myself to AA's then president, Al Casey. To my surprise, Mr. Casey spent a few minutes chatting with me, and even sent me some airplane pictures afterward. Mr. Casey was truly a classy person.
Nov 7, 2015, 10:16 am
#7774
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: London, England.
Programs: BA
Posts: 8,476
Given how many airlines of the day referred to their prop jets as "jets", what I should have asked was...
What was the world’s first airline to operate a non-propeller equipped passenger jet with a flight deck designed for just two crew? What kind of jet was it?
What was the world’s first airline to operate a non-propeller equipped passenger jet with a flight deck designed for just two crew? What kind of jet was it?
As Helene Hanff (New York City) wrote to Frank Dole (London) : "I guess that doesn't mean over there what it means over here".
The Jet Viscount had two Rolls-Royce Tay jet engines; nothing to do with the Tay that appeared a generation later on the Fokker F100 etc. It was really a Vickers development project, quite early in the Viscount development, and was lent to BEA for some London to Paris scheduled flights. If any of you haven't seen it (or even heard of it) before, here it is. Like the previous Jet Viking, these flights all took place before the Comet 1 went into scheduled service.
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=je...HZk9RW6nP94%3D
Nov 7, 2015, 1:48 pm
#7775
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Given how many airlines of the day referred to their prop jets as "jets", what I should have asked was...
What was the world’s first airline to operate a non-propeller equipped passenger jet with a flight deck designed for just two crew? What kind of jet was it?
I must be missing something here because I would have thought the answer was the same.
As Helene Hanff (New York City) wrote to Frank Dole (London) : "I guess that doesn't mean over there what it means over here".
The Jet Viscount had two Rolls-Royce Tay jet engines; nothing to do with the Tay that appeared a generation later on the Fokker F100 etc. It was really a Vickers development project, quite early in the Viscount development, and was lent to BEA for some London to Paris scheduled flights. If any of you haven't seen it (or even heard of it) before, here it is. Like the previous Jet Viking, these flights all took place before the Comet 1 went into scheduled service.
No, No - as usual it is I who am missing something - I saw "Viscount" and immediately thought propjet but of course I totally forgot about that old pure jet Viscount which I believe you discussed a year or two back. Spot on as always, WHBM!
BTW, the source I was referencing was Finnair's History page. Scroll down to the years 1960-68.
What was the world’s first airline to operate a non-propeller equipped passenger jet with a flight deck designed for just two crew? What kind of jet was it?
I must be missing something here because I would have thought the answer was the same.
As Helene Hanff (New York City) wrote to Frank Dole (London) : "I guess that doesn't mean over there what it means over here".
The Jet Viscount had two Rolls-Royce Tay jet engines; nothing to do with the Tay that appeared a generation later on the Fokker F100 etc. It was really a Vickers development project, quite early in the Viscount development, and was lent to BEA for some London to Paris scheduled flights. If any of you haven't seen it (or even heard of it) before, here it is. Like the previous Jet Viking, these flights all took place before the Comet 1 went into scheduled service.
No, No - as usual it is I who am missing something - I saw "Viscount" and immediately thought propjet but of course I totally forgot about that old pure jet Viscount which I believe you discussed a year or two back. Spot on as always, WHBM!
BTW, the source I was referencing was Finnair's History page. Scroll down to the years 1960-68.
Last edited by Seat 2A; Nov 9, 2015 at 10:31 am
Nov 7, 2015, 7:19 pm
#7776
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: London, England.
Programs: BA
Posts: 8,476
Must be a Finnair thing. They did the same with their two Airbus A300-B4, which they later sold to UK holiday flight operator Air Scandic (despite the name, a wholly UK operation, one aircraft based Gatwick, one at Manchester). These had a 2-crew flightdeck on an aircraft which at the time normally had three, as well. The flight engineer functions were moved in front of the pilots in an arrangement euphemistically known as FFCC (forward facing crew cockpit). The airline operated for some years with retired Finnair captains as it was a unique aircraft configuration. The UK CAA sucked their teeth over this one for quite some time, and in the end actually pulled the certificate on the aircraft, and that was the end of Air Scandic. Strangely the aircraft are still around, flying now for Iran Air !
Nov 9, 2015, 10:29 am
#7777
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I think Finnair are being a bit economical with the truth there. The Caravelle's flight deck was indeed designed for a 3-person crew, with a flight engineer. That Finnair chose to re-equip from the standard is a separate matter.
Must be a Finnair thing. They did the same with their two Airbus A300-B4, which they later sold to UK holiday flight operator Air Scandic (despite the name, a wholly UK operation, one aircraft based Gatwick, one at Manchester). These had a 2-crew flightdeck on an aircraft which at the time normally had three, as well. The flight engineer functions were moved in front of the pilots in an arrangement euphemistically known as FFCC (forward facing crew cockpit). The airline operated for some years with retired Finnair captains as it was a unique aircraft configuration. The UK CAA sucked their teeth over this one for quite some time, and in the end actually pulled the certificate on the aircraft, and that was the end of Air Scandic. Strangely the aircraft are still around, flying now for Iran Air !
Must be a Finnair thing. They did the same with their two Airbus A300-B4, which they later sold to UK holiday flight operator Air Scandic (despite the name, a wholly UK operation, one aircraft based Gatwick, one at Manchester). These had a 2-crew flightdeck on an aircraft which at the time normally had three, as well. The flight engineer functions were moved in front of the pilots in an arrangement euphemistically known as FFCC (forward facing crew cockpit). The airline operated for some years with retired Finnair captains as it was a unique aircraft configuration. The UK CAA sucked their teeth over this one for quite some time, and in the end actually pulled the certificate on the aircraft, and that was the end of Air Scandic. Strangely the aircraft are still around, flying now for Iran Air !
Nov 9, 2015, 11:02 am
#7778
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 4,187
TNT Airways (3V, Belgium, Cargo & Passenger). TNT stands for Thomas Nationwide Transport; Ken Thomas was the founder.
Nov 9, 2015, 6:50 pm
#7779
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Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: SEA (the REAL Washington); occasionally in the other Washington (DCA area)
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Posts: 21,358
these have been languishing for a couple of months and 200+ intervening posts, so it's time to sound "Last Call" with some hints:
from a Piedmont Airlines timetable, June 1974:
1- (revised for clarity)identify all the North Carolina cities served by PI that also include Camp Lejeune in their timetable listings
3- identify the three PI destinations that were served by BOTH the Boeing 737 and the FH-227B partially answered: ORD
HINT: one is in Kentucky, and the other is in a metropolitan area that PI actually served via two airports
4- identify the only PI destination that was served by BOTH the Boeing 737 and the YS-11
HINT: it's in South Carolina
speaking of PI turboprops, you are in Atlanta and learn that you have a luncheon meeting in Arlington VA the next day; you discover that you can take a 655am flight that arrives Washington National (DCA) at 1112am, then depart DCA at 359pm to get back to ATL at 959pm
5- identify (in order, of course) the five intermediate stops on the northbound flight ... note: this trip was operated by an FH-227B
6- identify (in order, of course) the five intermediate stops on the southbound flight (hint: you will not transit the same airport twice) note: this trip was operated by a YS-11
1- (revised for clarity)identify all the North Carolina cities served by PI that also include Camp Lejeune in their timetable listings
3- identify the three PI destinations that were served by BOTH the Boeing 737 and the FH-227B partially answered: ORD
HINT: one is in Kentucky, and the other is in a metropolitan area that PI actually served via two airports
4- identify the only PI destination that was served by BOTH the Boeing 737 and the YS-11
HINT: it's in South Carolina
speaking of PI turboprops, you are in Atlanta and learn that you have a luncheon meeting in Arlington VA the next day; you discover that you can take a 655am flight that arrives Washington National (DCA) at 1112am, then depart DCA at 359pm to get back to ATL at 959pm
5- identify (in order, of course) the five intermediate stops on the northbound flight ... note: this trip was operated by an FH-227B
6- identify (in order, of course) the five intermediate stops on the southbound flight (hint: you will not transit the same airport twice) note: this trip was operated by a YS-11
Nov 12, 2015, 11:25 am
#7780
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Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: East Ester, Alaska
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Posts: 12,146
Ah... it's good to be home! I had a very nice ride on the Iowa Pacific between Lafayette and Chicago and also logged my one millionth mile aboard 737NGs (737-600/700/800/900).
I arrived home to find 10" of snow in my driveway, so the first order of business was 30 minutes of shoveling. Temperatures dropped into the -20s last night with a high of 5 above forecast for today. Winter has definitely arrived! I get to enjoy Alaska for the next eleven days before heading down to Colorado for Thanksgiving and a 7000 mile train trip stretching from Texas to Illinois to California to Montana and many points in between.
Here are answers to the remaining questions. The first one may be subject to debate, so please feel free to speak up on that or any other question/answer here.
7. This airline claims to have established the world’s first commercial around the world route. Can you identify the airline and the route?
To quote from SAS's website:
On February 24, 1957, an SAS flight, ‘Guttorm Viking’, departed Copenhagen for Tokyo, via Anchorage. At the same time, another SAS aircraft, ‘Reidar Viking’, took off from Tokyo, and the two aircraft met over the North Pole at 9.10pm. With the new route, flying time between Scandinavia and Tokyo had been reduced from 52 hours to 32 hours. By linking the Tokyo via Bangkok and Tokyo via Anchorage routes, SAS established the world’s first commercial around-the-world route. The DC-7s servicing the route had “First over the Pole and around the World” marked on the aircraft.
14. This airline launched the first ever scheduled jet flight to take place entirely within the Arctic Circle. Identify the airline, aircraft and route.
This Nordair flight commenced in Montreal, but the routing was YUL - Frobisher Bay (Iqaluit) - Resolute with a 737-200. The year was 1969.
18. Can you name an airline named after its founder that also operated 747s?
Braniff, Wardair, Ansett, Martinair, Kallat El-Saker Air , Khalifa and cargo operators Kalitta, MK Airlines and TNT have been named so far.
Can you think of any others?
I arrived home to find 10" of snow in my driveway, so the first order of business was 30 minutes of shoveling. Temperatures dropped into the -20s last night with a high of 5 above forecast for today. Winter has definitely arrived! I get to enjoy Alaska for the next eleven days before heading down to Colorado for Thanksgiving and a 7000 mile train trip stretching from Texas to Illinois to California to Montana and many points in between.
Here are answers to the remaining questions. The first one may be subject to debate, so please feel free to speak up on that or any other question/answer here.
7. This airline claims to have established the world’s first commercial around the world route. Can you identify the airline and the route?
To quote from SAS's website:
On February 24, 1957, an SAS flight, ‘Guttorm Viking’, departed Copenhagen for Tokyo, via Anchorage. At the same time, another SAS aircraft, ‘Reidar Viking’, took off from Tokyo, and the two aircraft met over the North Pole at 9.10pm. With the new route, flying time between Scandinavia and Tokyo had been reduced from 52 hours to 32 hours. By linking the Tokyo via Bangkok and Tokyo via Anchorage routes, SAS established the world’s first commercial around-the-world route. The DC-7s servicing the route had “First over the Pole and around the World” marked on the aircraft.
14. This airline launched the first ever scheduled jet flight to take place entirely within the Arctic Circle. Identify the airline, aircraft and route.
This Nordair flight commenced in Montreal, but the routing was YUL - Frobisher Bay (Iqaluit) - Resolute with a 737-200. The year was 1969.
18. Can you name an airline named after its founder that also operated 747s?
Braniff, Wardair, Ansett, Martinair, Kallat El-Saker Air , Khalifa and cargo operators Kalitta, MK Airlines and TNT have been named so far.
Can you think of any others?
Last edited by Seat 2A; Nov 12, 2015 at 11:40 am
Nov 16, 2015, 12:53 pm
#7781
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: LFT
Programs: AA Plat, lots of AA, AS, DL, UA miles, former top level CO Elite (sigh...)
Posts: 10,795
I'll guess American was operating nonstop DC-10 service between Cleveland and Los Angeles. I also seem to recall that AA at one point operated multiple Boeing 707 CLE-LAX nonstops each day; so, if correct, perhaps this was an attempt by American to reduce the number of flights each day but still provide a sufficient number of seats in the market.
Speaking of American.....
Back on Saturday, Nov. 7, we enjoyed very nice service in F on AA from DFW to LAX on board a brand spanking new A321. And then last week, we experienced equally nice service: we started our day on board an Alaska Air Q400 operated by QX from Santa Rosa (STS) nonstop to San Diego (SAN). Upon arrival at SAN, we had a layover of just over four hours. So what to do during that time interval? No problem: we jumped into a cab and headed the short distance to the marina district on San Diego Bay near the downtown area where we enjoyed a leisurely lunch at very nice restaurant overlooking the water. Then it was back to Lindbergh Field and on to Dallas/Fort Worth on board a refurbished 757 in F with a surprisingly good dinner service. Due to an 180 knot tail wind, we arrived early at DFW where, equally surprising, we did not have to wait for a gate. We were then off to LFT on board an AA Eagle ERJ-145 with another early arrival.
We finished our vacation week by attending the annual Chef Emeril Lagasse Foundation benefit at Champion's Square adjacent to the Super Dome in New Orleans. This sold out event was a huge success with over 5,000 souls in attendance enjoying sample entrees prepared by 60 (!) gourmet chefs (including Chef Lagasse) accompanied by a bevy of beverages including fine red wines from California as well as Louisiana microbrews to include a Porter and a Stout. Desserts were also offered and one could even enjoy a fine, hand rolled cigar. Everything was complimentary as it was all included in the admission ticket with the proceeds going to a very worth cause: the support of various youth groups in the New Orleans area. Of course, there was live music as well provided by several bands on a very large stage featuring an excellent sound and video system. I can very highly recommend this event to anyone and we are already making plans to attend next year.
Meantime, it's good to be back home once again with our little pup Miss Bella. I am also now putting the finishing touches on a new batch of quiz items which I shall submit later this week. :-:
Last edited by jlemon; Nov 16, 2015 at 3:37 pm
Nov 16, 2015, 6:55 pm
#7782
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Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: SEA (the REAL Washington); occasionally in the other Washington (DCA area)
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Posts: 21,358
and the answers are ...
from a Piedmont Airlines timetable, June 1974:
1- identify all the North Carolina cities served by PI that also include Camp Lejeune in their timetable listings
3- identify the three PI destinations that were served by BOTH the Boeing 737 and the FH-227B partially answered: ORD
HINT: one is in Kentucky Lexington (LEX)
the other is in a metropolitan area that PI actually served via two airports Newark (EWR)
4- identify the only PI destination that was served by BOTH the Boeing 737 and the YS-11 ... HINT: it's in South Carolina
Florence (FLO)
speaking of PI turboprops, you are in Atlanta and learn that you have a luncheon meeting in Arlington VA the next day; you discover that you can take a 655am flight that arrives Washington National (DCA) at 1112am, then depart DCA at 359pm to get back to ATL at 959pm
5- identify (in order, of course) the five intermediate stops on the northbound flight ... note: this trip was operated by an FH-227B
PI 242, ATL 0655 - 0800 Hickory/Lenoir/Morganton (HKY) 0809 - 0834 Winston-Salem (INT) 0855 - 0918 Danville (DAN) 0926 - 0947 Lynchburg (LYH) 1005 - 1029 Charlottesville (CHO) 1037 - 1112 DCA
6- identify (in order, of course) the five intermediate stops on the southbound flight (hint: you will not transit the same airport twice) ... note: this trip was operated by a YS-11
PI 953, DCA 1559 - 1659 Norfolk (ORF) 1725 - 1812 New Bern/Camp Lejeune/Morehead City/Beaufort (EWN) 1830 - 1853 Goldsboro (GLD) 1905 - 2012 Columbia (CAE) 2030 - 2056 Augusta (AGS) 2110 - 2159 ATL
5000 posts in 6 years on FT ... given what Delta is doing in terms of changing the rules for SkyMiles, I'll probably have 2500 in the next year alone ...
1- identify all the North Carolina cities served by PI that also include Camp Lejeune in their timetable listings
- Jacksonville (OAJ)
- Kinston (ISO)
- New Bern/Morehead City/Beaufort (EWN)
- Wilmington (ILM)
3- identify the three PI destinations that were served by BOTH the Boeing 737 and the FH-227B partially answered: ORD
HINT: one is in Kentucky Lexington (LEX)
the other is in a metropolitan area that PI actually served via two airports Newark (EWR)
4- identify the only PI destination that was served by BOTH the Boeing 737 and the YS-11 ... HINT: it's in South Carolina
Florence (FLO)
speaking of PI turboprops, you are in Atlanta and learn that you have a luncheon meeting in Arlington VA the next day; you discover that you can take a 655am flight that arrives Washington National (DCA) at 1112am, then depart DCA at 359pm to get back to ATL at 959pm
5- identify (in order, of course) the five intermediate stops on the northbound flight ... note: this trip was operated by an FH-227B
PI 242, ATL 0655 - 0800 Hickory/Lenoir/Morganton (HKY) 0809 - 0834 Winston-Salem (INT) 0855 - 0918 Danville (DAN) 0926 - 0947 Lynchburg (LYH) 1005 - 1029 Charlottesville (CHO) 1037 - 1112 DCA
6- identify (in order, of course) the five intermediate stops on the southbound flight (hint: you will not transit the same airport twice) ... note: this trip was operated by a YS-11
PI 953, DCA 1559 - 1659 Norfolk (ORF) 1725 - 1812 New Bern/Camp Lejeune/Morehead City/Beaufort (EWN) 1830 - 1853 Goldsboro (GLD) 1905 - 2012 Columbia (CAE) 2030 - 2056 Augusta (AGS) 2110 - 2159 ATL
5000 posts in 6 years on FT ... given what Delta is doing in terms of changing the rules for SkyMiles, I'll probably have 2500 in the next year alone ...
Nov 18, 2015, 6:50 am
#7783
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 782
I did not see a response to this and so shall take a stab at it.....
I'll guess American was operating nonstop DC-10 service between Cleveland and Los Angeles. I also seem to recall that AA at one point operated multiple Boeing 707 CLE-LAX nonstops each day; so, if correct, perhaps this was an attempt by American to reduce the number of flights each day but still provide a sufficient number of seats in the market.
I'll guess American was operating nonstop DC-10 service between Cleveland and Los Angeles. I also seem to recall that AA at one point operated multiple Boeing 707 CLE-LAX nonstops each day; so, if correct, perhaps this was an attempt by American to reduce the number of flights each day but still provide a sufficient number of seats in the market.
I'm glad you had a wonderful trip. The event at the Super Dome must have been amazing!
Nov 18, 2015, 8:02 am
#7784
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: LFT
Programs: AA Plat, lots of AA, AS, DL, UA miles, former top level CO Elite (sigh...)
Posts: 10,795
And your excellent quiz item engenders a follow-on question:
As we know, American was operating nonstop flights from Cleveland to twelve different destinations at this time including LAX. What were the eleven other nonstop destinations? I've already guessed that one of them was La Guardia. If that is correct, what were the other ten?
Nov 18, 2015, 5:22 pm
#7785
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 4,187
Ah, I see this was an eastbound operation only with the DC-10 with Cleveland being an intermediate stop. In that case, I'll guess the actual routing was LAX-CLE-LGA.
And your excellent quiz item engenders a follow-on question:
As we know, American was operating nonstop flights from Cleveland to twelve different destinations at this time including LAX. What were the eleven other nonstop destinations? I've already guessed that one of them was La Guardia. If that is correct, what were the other ten?
And your excellent quiz item engenders a follow-on question:
As we know, American was operating nonstop flights from Cleveland to twelve different destinations at this time including LAX. What were the eleven other nonstop destinations? I've already guessed that one of them was La Guardia. If that is correct, what were the other ten?
1. BOS
2. LGA
3. BDL
4. ROC
5. ORD
6. STL
7. DFW
8. IAH
9. LAS (or possible LAS-PHX-CLE)
10. LAX
11. CMH
12. YYZ