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Old Timer's Airline Quiz and Discussion

Old Timer's Airline Quiz and Discussion

Old Sep 27, 15, 3:45 pm
  #7681  
 
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Originally Posted by jlemon View Post
Ah, I thought I detected a "Southwest-like" influence there at the original Braniff at the end
Or before.

Did you ever hear the one that the initial Southwest livery was done at Love Field by Braniff with spare paint from their multicolour livery era of the 1960s-70s ?

http://www.airliners.net/photo/South...fe0f1f7966c7b1

with paint from

http://www.airliners.net/photo/Brani...498faac6195430

http://www.airliners.net/photo/Brani...498faac6195430
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Old Sep 29, 15, 8:35 am
  #7682  
 
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Originally Posted by jlemon View Post
Well, my goodness..... I continue to learn something new every day!

And the postman has just delivered our tickets to an upcoming concert in Atlanta which we are very much looking forward to at the end of October. We'll fly on Delta Connection LFT-ATL in order to attend this show (which will be staged at an outdoor amphitheater) using just about the last of our DL SkyMiles. The performer? Mark Knopfler, who is one of my favorites.
That should be an amazing concert. Many people have written songs about Detroit, but Mark Knopfler's "Telegraph Road" is, in my mind the best. Arrivals into DTW from the north and west follow Telegraph Road to the airport, and I'll often listen to this song on my IPod as we're flying overhead.
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Old Sep 29, 15, 9:58 am
  #7683  
 
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Originally Posted by JoeDTW View Post
That should be an amazing concert. Many people have written songs about Detroit, but Mark Knopfler's "Telegraph Road" is, in my mind the best. Arrivals into DTW from the north and west follow Telegraph Road to the airport, and I'll often listen to this song on my IPod as we're flying overhead.
Yes, we are very much looking forward to this concert. And I feel the same way about "Planet of New Orleans" from the On Every Street album. I feel that Mark and Dire Straits really captured the essence of the Crescent City and the French Quarter on this tune.....
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Old Sep 29, 15, 12:41 pm
  #7684  
 
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Originally Posted by jlemon View Post
1. Well, I haven't a clue concerning the airline and the route....but I am willing to bet a flying boat was involved.

2. Hmmmm....perhaps BEA and Iberia operating in cooperation nonstop between Palma and London Heathrow. BEA might have been operating a Comet or Vanguard (and perhaps both types on the route) while Iberia may have been flying a Caravelle on their service.
JL's bet correct for the first one. Now where could that flying boat routing through the east side of Majorca have been headed ... ? and who might go that way ... ?

Regarding the second, it's a strange fact that on what must have been one of the busiest air routes in Europe in 1970, both BEA and Iberia were very much in the minority. I believe the route that year was served by :

BEA - Trident, some days of the week from Heathrow
BKS - also running Tridents from Heathrow, same number of flights per week.
Britannia - daily or multi-daily 737s from Luton, several per week from Gatwick.
Monarch - daily or multi-daily Britannias from Luton.
Dan-Air - largest programme of all, multi-daily Comets from Gatwick, several per week One-Elevens from Luton.
Court Line - Looked like just three or four a week brand new multi-coloured Super One-Elevens from Luton. However, Court had a different way of working, and would apply as many aircraft as required to each departure, common for there to be four or even five aircraft, more than half their fleet, leaving at 10-minute intervals on these flights. The chaos at check-in can be imagined (this is why Court had ordered the Lockheed Tristar for their flights).
British United - daily or multi daily Super One-Elevens from Gatwick.
BEA Airtours - new player, who had inherited BEA's old Comet 4B fleet (apparently sold for £1 each !) and ran multi-daily from Gatwick.
Caledonian - daily or multi-daily Super One-Elevens from Gatwick, sometimes a 707 at weekends.
Laker - Another daily or multi-daily operator from Gatwick, mostly One-Elevens but the long haul 707s were added at weekends.
British Midland - Several Super One-Elevens a week from Luton.
Channel - Several Comet 4Bs a week from Gatwick.
Donaldson - Couple of Bristol Britannias a week from Gatwick

Then there were the Spanish operators.

Iberia DC9 - some days of the week from Heathrow.
Aviaco - mix of DC8s and Caravelles from Gatwick, up to six aircraft might come in on a Saturday night. The aircraft were often leased from Iberia for the flight.
Spantax - Daily or better Convair 990s.
Transeuropa - Several Caravelles per week across Gatwick and Luton
Air Spain - several Bristol Britannias at Gatwick or Luton per week.

18 airlines. Quite an operation !
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Old Sep 30, 15, 4:34 pm
  #7685  
 
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Wow....talk about a well served market back in the day.

I take it the number of air carriers operating between the London area and Palma is a bit less at present.....
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Old Oct 1, 15, 1:12 pm
  #7686  
 
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Originally Posted by jlemon View Post
Wow....talk about a well served market back in the day.

I take it the number of air carriers operating between the London area and Palma is a bit less at present.....
Well looking at next Saturday, down from the seasonal peak now we're in October, it's 9 airlines, so not immeasurably different. There are 24 flights in total, Easyjet have 10 of these and are far away the No 1 carrier on the route now. Given the aircraft are notably larger, I would say the number of passengers is probably about the same.
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Old Oct 9, 15, 6:25 am
  #7687  
 
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I'll just pick up some items which have been out for a while.

Originally Posted by jrl767
8- what day(s) did SU operate Moscow<-->Washington Dulles (IAD) service, and what was the intermediate stop?

9- what day(s) did SU operate Moscow<-->JFK service, and what was the intermediate stop?
I should have had a shot at these before. I'll guess twice a week for both, with IL-62s (the old ones with the original Kuznetsov engines which needed an intermediate stop). These used to vary from year to year, lets say Paris for the New York flights, and Shannon for the Washington ones.

Originally Posted by WHBM
[1] Palma is the only commercial airport currently here on the island [Majorca]. But right here at Alcudia was once upon a time a notable stopping point for an international service run with 4-engined aircraft. Which airline, and which countries did the route connect ?
I'll just wrap this one up. JL was right about it being a flying boat to Majorca, long ago. It was Air France, in 1939 routing Marseilles to Alcudia and on to Algiers, daily each way. Aircraft was a 4-engined Liore et Olivier (LeO) H242

http://www.letletlet-warplanes.com/2...nd-amphibians/

by way of commemoration, each day we were there a Spanish Air Force Canadair CL-415 forest fire fighting amphibian came low over the beach and did a water landing touch-and-go out in the bay, scooping up a tankful. It was a highlight for many who had never seen this operation before (including Little Miss WHBM ).

WHBM may have to swoop down from the azure Iberian skies.
And we're off in a few days to where it's snowing already ! Winter coats down from their summer storage. S2A, do you have snow up there yet ?
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Old Oct 9, 15, 9:11 am
  #7688  
 
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Originally Posted by WHBM View Post

By way of commemoration, each day we were there a Spanish Air Force Canadair CL-415 forest fire fighting amphibian came low over the beach and did a water landing touch-and-go out in the bay, scooping up a tankful. It was a highlight for many who had never seen this operation before (including Little Miss WHBM ).

And we're off in a few days to where it's snowing already !
I've also seen the CL-415 turboprop fire fighting amphibian in action. The Los Angeles County Fire Department actually used a couple of CL-415s on a trial basis some years ago with the aircraft being based at the Van Nuys Airport (VNY). L.A. County Fire really did not want to use the CL-415s (they wanted more fire fighting helicopters instead); however, a certain elected L.A. County official spearheaded the effort and a couple of CL-415s in the livery of the Province of Quebec then showed up in southern California for the summer fire fighting season. They would launch from VNY and then swoop in and take on water at Castaic Lake or Pyramid Lake in the mountains north of the L.A. basin with both reservoirs being located adjacent to the I-5 Golden State Freeway. Of course, a number of drivers would stop on the side of the freeway to watch only to be promptly run off by the CHP.

And as for the early season snow.....Yikes!

Please stay warm and I'm sure Little Miss WHBM will be properly bundled up!
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Old Oct 9, 15, 2:35 pm
  #7689  
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Originally Posted by WHBM View Post
I'll just pick up some items which have been out for a while.

8- what day(s) did SU operate Moscow<-->Washington Dulles (IAD) service, and what was the intermediate stop?

9- what day(s) did SU operate Moscow<-->JFK service, and what was the intermediate stop?
I should have had a shot at these before. I'll guess twice a week for both, with IL-62s (the old ones with the original Kuznetsov engines which needed an intermediate stop). These used to vary from year to year, lets say Paris for the New York flights, and Shannon for the Washington ones.
I will be returning from SEA to DC on Sun afternoon and will verify the schedules at that time, but I believe you have correctly identified Paris on the JFK flight ... the Washington flight stopped at Heathrow
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Old Oct 11, 15, 8:36 pm
  #7690  
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well I guess I shouldn't rely on my aging memory so much ...

SU311, Wed & Sun; lv Moscow 1330; ar LHR 1520 lv 1630; ar JFK 1930
SU312, Wed & Sun; lv JFK 2130; ar LHR 0915 lv 1005; ar Moscow 1535

SU317, Fri; lv Moscow 1100; ar Paris 1255 lv 1410; ar IAD 1800
SU318, Fri; lv IAD 2025; ar Paris 0900 lv 1010; ar Moscow 1545

some very interesting currency regulations:
There is no limit to the amount of currency allowed into the country.

Foreign currency -- cash and traveler's checks, which the traveler wishes to take into the USSR must be registered at the Customs upon arrival.

While in the USSR travelers can exchange their currency for Roubles at the Bureau de Change of the State Bank of the USSR located at all border crossings, in hotels, at international air- and sea-ports. While converting foreign currency into Roubles, travelers have to produce the Customs Declaration Form (registered at the Customs upon arrival) to the Cashier Exchange Office representative.

In turn they are given a State Bank certificate (spravka) -- F-377 against which the travelers will be able to re-exchange unused Roubles for foreign currency upon departure.

Travelers are deprived of exchanging unused Roubles for foreign currency unless they have or present the USSR State Bank certificate -- F-377.

It is against the law to engage in any foreign currency transactions (i.e., sale, exchange, etc.) with anyone, except the State Bank of the USSR. It is not permitted to take Roubles into or out of the Soviet Union.
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Old Oct 12, 15, 8:07 am
  #7691  
 
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United to take the Caravelle back into the fleet for long haul flights

http://www.port2port.com/article/Air...cisco-flights/
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Old Oct 12, 15, 10:57 am
  #7692  
 
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Originally Posted by WHBM View Post
United to take the Caravelle back into the fleet for long haul flights

http://www.port2port.com/article/Air...cisco-flights/
Ah....apparently the Caravelle will be brought back to provide back up for these new 787-9 flights between SFO and TLV.....although there will most likely be several tech stops for fuel and the payload will have to be reduced as well.

But I wonder if the Caravelle will be reconfigured with an all BusinessFirst cabin?
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Old Oct 12, 15, 11:10 am
  #7693  
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UA operated their Caravelle fleet in 64F configuration
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Old Oct 12, 15, 12:22 pm
  #7694  
 
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Originally Posted by jrl767 View Post
SU311, Wed & Sun; lv Moscow 1330; ar LHR 1520 lv 1630; ar JFK 1930
SU317, Fri; lv Moscow 1100; ar Paris 1255 lv 1410; ar IAD 1800
These flights were part of the agreement for airlines like BOAC and Air France to start London/Paris-Moscow-Tokyo flights. These were two of these per week each at first, and Aeroflot got rights to operate their own two through flights per week on the same routes, plus they milked it even more by requiring Moscow-London/Paris-USA as well. Commercially it just didn't work for them but as the IL-62 didn't have the range for nonstop they needed a stop anyway. It was later replaced by the Shannon stop when the Soviet Union agreed with Ireland to build a tank farm there to store Soviet-produced aviation fuel which was shipped round by tanker from the Black Sea, so they didn't have to buy the fuel with hard currency.

Which brings us to ...

some very interesting currency regulations
The excessive bureaucracy, always accompanied by vigorously rubber-stamping every form within sight, is actually a longstanding Russian tradition (as is the ingenuity of the population in overcoming it) which goes back to even before Soviet times; I have a pre-WW1 European travel guide from Czar days which, at a time when passports were only advisory across the rest of Europe, describes requirements for passports, and visas obtained from the consulate beforehand (for a fee), and then when you arrived the need to exchange your passport at the police station for a Russian identity document (another fee), which you had to exchange back when you wanted to leave ... etc; it's all distressingly familiar for 100 years and several regime changes later.

Currency was fascinating in East Germany in the 1980s, reached for me by a Dan-Air One-Eleven 400 charter flight from Gatwick to West Berlin and then walking through the checkpoint to East Berlin for the day. UK (and US and French) citizens could do this on the spot provided you stayed within the East Berlin city boundaries, and also provided you NEVER said East Germany and ALWAYS said Deutsche Demokratische Republik. Unfortunately Schonefeld airport was just over the border in the DDR proper so I didn't get there. You had to exchange at minimum 25 West German Marks for 25 East German Reichsmarks at a 1:1 exchange rate at the border each day. More rubber-stamping of forms. There was no prospect of changing it back (I've still got some somewhere). Actually I exchanged more because there were some nice German restaurants over there, although the Germanic traditions of a grilled sausage stall on each corner also continued.
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Old Oct 21, 15, 7:59 am
  #7695  
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Good Morning All!

And a fine morning it is while cruising high above West Virginia enroute to Los Angeles with onward connections to Las Vegas. Here in seat 2D I’m working on my second cup of coffee while awaiting breakfast that today will include a fruit plate and a Denver Omelet. What better time than to post some new questions for the OTAQ&D. Indeed, this may be the very first time questions have ever been posted from the troposphere.

I chatted recently with jlemon and the immediate future looks good for more questions as we both have put together enough to get us through Thanksgiving – albeit at a somewhat more leisurely pace than has been the case in the past. I’ve been on the road since late September traveling through every corner of the continental United States as well as many points in the middle. I am posting my questions now as jlemon has a busy schedule over the next couple of weeks including a concert with Mark Knopfler up in Atlanta. I just finished three straight nights in three different locales with the Dark Star Orchestra and am now headed for the wilds of the Mojave National Preserve. I will however be back in Alaska by tomorrow night and so there shouldn’t be too much lag time in responding to your answers.

Though most all of you are smart enough to answer or at least give an educated guess to all of these questions in one fell swoop, please limit your responses to just two – at most three - questions at a time so that others may also have a reasonable chance of participating. Relying upon memory as opposed to a quick and easy internet search will very likely prolong this set of questions and may even enhance subsequent discussions. Thank You!


1. This North American airline was a popular clothier's failed attempt at a discount airline. It was pitched at the outset by a well known comedian but ultimately flew for only three months. Identify the airline and - if you're up to it - the comedian who pitched the airline.

2. This airline was the world’s largest operator of Convair 990s

3. What was the first non-British airline to buy the VC10?

4. It’s the spring of 2003 and you’re taxiing out to the runway at Orlando International Airport when you look out your window and spy an MD80 wearing the old National Airlines “Sun King” logo on its tail. Which airline would have been operating this MD80?

5. What is the oldest, continuously operating airline in the Americas?

6. What was the first local service airline in the U.S. to operate turboprops?

7. What airline became the world’s first to offer regularly scheduled routes around the world?

8. What was the first airline to operate trans-Atlantic services between England and New York from a city other than London? Identify the airline and the English city flown from.

9. In 1953, this airline commenced the first non-stop eastbound scheduled transcontinental service in the US between Los Angeles and New York. Identify the airline and the aircraft.

10. What was the first African airline to offer commercial service to China?

11. What the first US airline to order and operate a British built airliner?

12. What was the world’s first airline to operate a passenger jet with a flight deck designed for just two crew?

13. This British airline renamed itself after the aircraft type it acquired in 1964. Name the airline and - by extension – the aircraft.

14. This airline launched the first ever scheduled jet flight to take place entirely within the Arctic Circle. Identify the airline, aircraft and route.

15. What was the first airline to operate a 747 on a US domestic flight? What route was it?

16. What was the first airline in England to operate the 727? What was unique about this airline’s 727-100?

17. What was the first airline to challenge the Eastern Air Shuttle with inexpensive hourly flights connecting New York’s LaGuardia airport with Boston and Washington-Reagan National?

18. Can you name an airline named after its founder that also operated 747s? IN PLAY jrl767 has identified Braniff, Wardair and cargo operator Kalitta. Any more out there?

19. So far, Hawaii hasn’t seen many flights utilizing narrow bodied Airbus aircraft. What is the first airline to fly the Airbus A321 to Honolulu?

20. In 1969, Mexico’s largest airline claimed to fly from more US gateways to Mexico than any other airline. Can you identify the airline and all of its US gateways? (More than 5 – less than 10)

21. If you wanted to fly out of New York JFK aboard this airline’s “Sunjet” in January of 1970, it could have been one of two different types of aircraft. Identify the airline and the two aircraft types.

22. In a 1969 ad, this U.S. airline claimed “In Economy Class we give you:

• Steak broiled right on the plane instead of airline steak pre-cooked on the ground
• Travel slippers to slip your tired feet into
• A soft furry lap robe to stay cozy under, instead of a rough blanket
• A big fluffy pillow to rest your head on instead of the usual mini-airline pillow
• And a special compartment built right into our aircraft for ladies to hang their furs and store their wig boxes

Name the airline!

23. In 1968, if you were enjoying “Royal Canadian” service to Vancouver, which airline would you be flying upon?

24. In early 1968 this airline inaugurated service from Tucson to La Paz, Mexico. The flight continued on to Mazatlan. Identify the airline and the aircraft used.

25. So far as I know (now there’s a qualifier for you!) this was the only airline to operate Boeing 727-100 and 727-200 combi aircraft designed for passengers and freight. Can you identify it? (And any others - if you can…)

Last edited by Seat 2A; Oct 21, 15 at 10:29 am
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