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Old Timer's Airline Quiz and Discussion

Old Timer's Airline Quiz and Discussion

Old Mar 8, 15, 12:01 am
  #7036  
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Questions of terminology

Separate from the quiz, I have a couple questions regarding terminology. Let's start with my question #2:

2. Montana was perfectly suited for milk runs from airlines like Northwest and Frontier. As a result, many of the flights into or out of the state weren’t very long. Identify the longest route flown into/out of Montana. I’m looking for the city pair and the airline.

As I define "route", it's a flight traveled between a single city pair, i.e. ORD-BIL.

As I define "routing", it's a line of cities stopped at along the course of a single flight, i.e. NA 393 JFK-PHL-ORF-JAX-TPA-MCO-MIA.

Secondly, let's explore "direct" vs. "nonstop"

As I understand it, "nonstop" means exactly that - no stops. As I understand it, a "direct flight" means one that goes directly from point A to point B but with one or more enroute stops. What say youse?

As the guy typing up these questions it would be helpful for all of us if I'm using the same terminology that you all are. I want to avoid confusion as I'm confused enough as it is. Especially with this new bourbon I switched to. How do you all define the difference in these terms?
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Old Mar 8, 15, 12:05 am
  #7037  
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Originally Posted by jlemon View Post
30. In 1983 Atlanta is the second busiest airport in the U.S. and yet there’s only a single almost daily (X3) flight operating with a BAC-111. Identify the airline and the route flown.

Well, at first I thought this might be Atlantic Gulf with a flight to Tallahassee.....but I do not think this airline was operating a BAC One-Eleven in 1983. Then I thought of Bahamasair (UP) with a nonstop to Nassau (NAS). So I believe it was UP.

Ya, Mon! ^
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Old Mar 8, 15, 12:07 am
  #7038  
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Originally Posted by jrl767 View Post
15. Alphabetically, this was the last city in the North American OAG receiving jet service. Identify the city, and if you like the airline, aircraft and two cities it was served from.

1970, jet service Youngstown (YNG) <--> ORD and PIT, United with a 737-200

Good try, but no... Please guess again!!!!
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Old Mar 8, 15, 7:40 am
  #7039  
 
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Originally Posted by WHBM View Post
Pacific Western, to Calgary ?
24. Well, that was going to be my second guess as well: PW from YXE with continuing service from YYC to YVR.....

It appears the B767-200 aircraft were not in the Pacific Western fleet very long. When they appeared, I remember thinking, "How the heck are those guys going to fill those things up?" And not too much time passed before PW went to an all B737-200 fleet.....
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Old Mar 8, 15, 7:45 am
  #7040  
 
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Originally Posted by Seat 2A View Post
Separate from the quiz, I have a couple questions regarding terminology. Let's start with my question #2:

2. Montana was perfectly suited for milk runs from airlines like Northwest and Frontier. As a result, many of the flights into or out of the state weren’t very long. Identify the longest route flown into/out of Montana. I’m looking for the city pair and the airline.

As I define "route", it's a flight traveled between a single city pair, i.e. ORD-BIL.

As I define "routing", it's a line of cities stopped at along the course of a single flight, i.e. NA 393 JFK-PHL-ORF-JAX-TPA-MCO-MIA.

Secondly, let's explore "direct" vs. "nonstop"

As I understand it, "nonstop" means exactly that - no stops. As I understand it, a "direct flight" means one that goes directly from point A to point B but with one or more enroute stops. What say youse?

As the guy typing up these questions it would be helpful for all of us if I'm using the same terminology that you all are. I want to avoid confusion as I'm confused enough as it is. Especially with this new bourbon I switched to. How do you all define the difference in these terms?
Looks all good from here, Seat 2A....

"Direct" as in "no change of plane" with continuing service, as it were, irrespective of the bourbon, of course......
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Old Mar 8, 15, 9:25 am
  #7041  
 
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15. Alphabetically, this was the last city in the North American OAG receiving jet service. Identify the city, and if you like the airline, aircraft and two cities it was served from.

Going to try this one again: ICT. Jet service on TW to DEN and BN to KCI.

Agree with the definitions of non-stop and direct altho, at least in the late '70s-early '80s, there were a lot of "direct" flights from US-Europe which were same flight number but with "change of gauge". IIRC, those flights were denoted in the OAG as "CHG" for equipment. I always thought it was just a cheap marketing tool so the airline could put up a billboard saying: "Fly TW direct to London".
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Old Mar 8, 15, 9:32 am
  #7042  
 
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8. This foreign airline enjoys 5th freedom rights with a flight between Los Angeles and Mexico City every Monday, Wednesday and Friday evening. Identify the airline and the aircraft.
By any chance would that be Japan Air Lines with a 747?
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Old Mar 8, 15, 9:43 am
  #7043  
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Originally Posted by 24.05.2004 View Post
[B] Agree with the definitions of non-stop and direct altho, at least in the late '70s-early '80s, there were a lot of "direct" flights from US-Europe which were same flight number but with "change of gauge". IIRC, those flights were denoted in the OAG as "CHG" for equipment. I always thought it was just a cheap marketing tool so the airline could put up a billboard saying: "Fly TW direct to London".
billboards and print ads, yes, but I think more to enable "direct" or "through" flights to display above connecting services with two flight numbers for travel agency queries

so to clarify the linguistics:
  • a NONSTOP flight operates on a ROUTE
  • a DIRECT or THROUGH flight operates on a ROUTING
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Old Mar 8, 15, 9:45 am
  #7044  
 
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Originally Posted by Seat 2A View Post
Separate from the quiz, I have a couple questions regarding terminology. Let's start with my question #2: As I define "route", it's a flight traveled between a single city pair, i.e. ORD-BIL.

As I define "routing", it's a line of cities stopped at along the course of a single flight, i.e. NA 393 JFK-PHL-ORF-JAX-TPA-MCO-MIA.

Secondly, let's explore "direct" vs. "nonstop"

As I understand it, "nonstop" means exactly that - no stops. As I understand it, a "direct flight" means one that goes directly from point A to point B but with one or more enroute stops. What say youse?

As the guy typing up these questions it would be helpful for all of us if I'm using the same terminology that you all are. I want to avoid confusion as I'm confused enough as it is. Especially with this new bourbon I switched to. How do you all define the difference in these terms?
For me, route is the overall end-to-end operation. So we do indeed refer to the "Britain to Australia route" of British AW and Qantas, where there are no nonstops. I think this is terminology common inside the industry. Crews stopped at Singapore or Sydney on the way are referred to as "being downroute". It might, of course, be nonstop, or it might not.

Routing is what a specific flight does. So the old Qantas flight from London to Australia was "routing through Bermuda, Nassau, Mexico, etc".

Direct is a flight you don't need to get off from between origin and destination, so again the BA flight from London to Sydney is direct, because you don't need to get out at Singapore, although many choose to.
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Old Mar 8, 15, 10:14 am
  #7045  
 
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19. This airline operated the only direct flight between Sioux Falls, S. Dakota and New York. First Class was available and the flight made three enroute stops. Identify the airline, the aircraft and the enroute stops.
Sure sounds like a Ozark DC-9 milk run to me. How about after leaving Sioux Falls, we decide to drop in to see the cousins in Waterloo, then hop over to watch the big yellow machines being built in Peoria, stop to see the sights in Washington DC (Dulles?) and then onto the Big Apple.
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Old Mar 8, 15, 11:05 am
  #7046  
 
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Originally Posted by Seat 2A View Post

The following two (2) questions are based upon schedules published in a 1975 Pocket Flight Guide

11. San Diego enjoyed a few widebodied flights from a variety of airlines. Interestingly though, only two of these widebodied flights came from cities east of San Diego. One of them was a United DC-10 from Chicago. Identify the airline, aircraft and route of the other widebody serving San Diego from the east.

12. Most cities in Alabama and Mississippi cities were served via milk runs. Identify the city pair, the airline and the aircraft representing the longest flight into either Mississippi or Alabama. I'm looking for just one city pair operating into a city that's either in Mississippi or Alabama.
11. Ah....this may well be: Western Airlines....the only way to fly!.....with a DC-10 nonstop from Denver.

12. Well, I can think of two city pairs here, both operated nonstop by United with Boeing 727-100 equipment: Los Angeles (LAX)-Birmingham (BHM) and Los Angeles (LAX)-Huntsville (HSV). So which one is the longest flight? They are darned close: I think LAX-HSV is 1,813 miles while LAX-BHM is 1,815 miles.
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Old Mar 8, 15, 3:36 pm
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Originally Posted by 24.05.2004 View Post
Agree with the definitions of non-stop and direct altho, at least in the late '70s-early '80s, there were a lot of "direct" flights from US-Europe which were same flight number but with "change of gauge". IIRC, those flights were denoted in the OAG as "CHG" for equipment. I always thought it was just a cheap marketing tool so the airline could put up a billboard saying: "Fly TW direct to London".
This was a longstanding practice, going back to propeller aircraft days, TWA being the principal, but by no means only, culprit of the approach. There were some bizarre combinations, such as in the 1960s a 707 Athens-Rome-JFK might continue with the same number as an L-749 Constellation JFK-Dayton-Indianapolis-St Louis. Quite what one flight might contribute to the other was a mystery. Eventually by the 1990s it was common to apply such flight numbers to combinations that were served nonstop by other carriers, Continental doing London-EWR and the number continuing EWR-MCO on a 737. This one eventually brought the practice to the attention of the UK Advertising Standards Authority, a quasi-government body, with evidence of not only not being a through flight but passengers being expected to walk between terminals just like any other connection, multiple broken connections, as the domestic aircraft would be sent off punctually, regardless of whether half the passengers were still queuing in immigration, or even more, the incoming aircraft was late and hadn't arrived yet (when, for ATC purposes only, the ongoing flight was assigned a different flight number to guard against two Flight xxx being in the air at the same time). Families who were seated together on one sector would be broken up on the next, without consideration. So the ASA, which of course only applies in the UK, did a formal banning of saying "direct", and it pretty much reduced after that, and could never be mentioned in the UK as "direct" any longer, even with a supplementary "change of gauge" footnote.
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Old Mar 8, 15, 4:09 pm
  #7048  
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Originally Posted by jrl767 View Post
17. Between Mexico’s two largest cities, two airlines operate flights with five different types of aircraft – two propeller driven airplanes and three jets. One airline operates two types of equipment, the other three. Each aircraft type is unique to that airline. Identify the airline and the aircraft types operated between Guadalajara y Ciudad de Mexico.

The airlines were almost certainly Aeronaves de Mexico (AM) and Mexicana (MX). I'll guess that AM ran the Britannia and standard DC-8; MX operated the DC-6, 727, and Comet.

Not a bad start, J! Aeronaves de Mexico and Mexicana are correct, however AM operated different aircraft along this segment than you've listed. As for Mexicana, estas correcto! Care to have another go at the AQM equipment?
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Old Mar 8, 15, 4:14 pm
  #7049  
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Originally Posted by WHBM View Post
24. If you live in Saskatoon and want to fly upon Boeing’s new 767, there’s only one place you can fly to from your hometown airport. Identify the airline and the route. [1983]

Pacific Western, to Calgary?

That's a good call WHBM, but no, it's not Calgary. You've got the right airline, though.

Originally Posted by jlemon
It appears the B767-200 aircraft were not in the Pacific Western fleet very long. When they appeared, I remember thinking, "How the heck are those guys going to fill those things up?" And not too much time passed before PW went to an all B737-200 fleet.....
Any thoughts on why PW went with the 767 in the first place? Were they considering expansion to the south or perhaps summer charters to Europe and winter charters to the US/Mexico?
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Old Mar 8, 15, 4:21 pm
  #7050  
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Originally Posted by 24.05.2004 View Post
15. Alphabetically, this was the last city in the 1970 North American OAG receiving jet service. Identify the city, and if you like the airline, aircraft and two cities it was served from.

Going to try this one again: ICT. Jet service on TW to DEN and BN to KCI.

Boy, you guys are buzzing all around the end of the OAG but are still just a few pages off. But please, keep buzzing!
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