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Old Timer's Airline Quiz and Discussion.

Old Timer's Airline Quiz and Discussion.

Old Feb 12, 2015, 10:31 am
  #6826  
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Here's a Trip Report covering my flights aboard CP Air and Pacific Western back in 1979.
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Old Feb 13, 2015, 3:44 am
  #6827  
 
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Almost looks like S2A made the trip 35 years ago just in the expectation of this question coming up one day

CP, Canadian Pacific, CP Air, Canadian, whatever they called themselves as it changed each decade, originally had a substantial north-south operation through BC/Yukon, which they progressively shed, mainly to little Pacific Western, who built up to enough mass over time that they eventually merged and absorbed CP themselves. Of course, it all started with DC3s, followed by the DC6Bs which the Britannias had displaced from longer runs.

BC Highway 97, the north-south route through the BC interior, has a particular moment for me, because it was on that road in 1969, at it's southern end border post with Washington state, that I first saw the USA. I know for most regulars here it is home, and for the Europeans their first sight is commonly one of the major arrival airports, but for me we had gone to Vancouver to see family (by Wardair of course), driven inland to more family in Penticton BC, and then did a day trip south, ending up in a real Western small town, far from any airport service, called Omak WA. It was August, about 100 degrees, and the restaurant we wilted into had a technology quite unknown in the UK at the time - air conditioning. It was a whole new world. My mother was so quietly enthralled as well. "Look, That Man's Wearing A Cowboy Hat" she announced from our window table at about 100 decibels, to ensure everyone even back in the kitchen knew.

Anyway, back to old aircraft, because that house in Penticton had a fine view across the town, highway 97 itself, and the airport, where in the schedule of the time a Pacific Western 737 arrived a couple of times a day from Vancouver, which of course I sat out on the deck and looked out for. It had been a CP DC6B operation until shortly beforehand. On reflection it was the first 737 I ever saw. I've seen and flown on a goodly number since ! We saw another 737 a few days later at Vancouver airport, a United one, alongside a DC8 which was still in the old Canadian Pacific livery, some years after they changed their image to CP Air, obviously they were pretty slow in changing over.

Last edited by WHBM; Feb 13, 2015 at 4:10 am
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Old Feb 13, 2015, 9:11 am
  #6828  
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Originally Posted by WHBM
Almost looks like S2A made the trip 35 years ago just in the expectation of this question coming up one day

CP, Canadian Pacific, CP Air, Canadian, whatever they called themselves as it changed each decade, originally had a substantial north-south operation through BC/Yukon, which they progressively shed, mainly to little Pacific Western, who built up to enough mass over time that they eventually merged and absorbed CP themselves. Of course, it all started with DC3s, followed by the DC6Bs which the Britannias had displaced from longer runs.
Interesting to note that Canadian Pacific operated the Britannia turboprop (which the airline called the "Britannia Empress") at one point on the BC/Yukon milk run route between Vancouver and Whitehorse. Here are the scheds from their April 29, 1962 system timetable...

CP 21: Vancouver 9:00a - 10:20a Prince George 10:40a - 11:25a Fort St. John 11:55a - 12:45p Fort Nelson 1:00p - 12:35p Whitehorse
Op: Mon., Weds., Fri., Sat. only
Equip: Britannia Empress

CP 21: Vancouver 9:00a - 10:20a Prince George 10:40a - 11:25a - Fort St. John 11:55a - 12:45p Fort Nelso 1:00p - 12:00n Watson Lake 12:15p - 1:05p Whitehorse
Op: Tues., Thurs. only
Equip: Britannia Empress

CP 22: Whitehorse 2:00p - 5:30p Fort Nelson 5:45p - 6:30p Fort St. John 7:00p - 7:50p Prince George 8:05p - 9:25p Vancouver
Op: Mon., Tues., Thurs., Sat. only
Equip: Britannia Empress

CP 22: Whitehorse 1:30p - 2:20p Watson Lake 2:35p - 5:30p Fort Nelson 5:45p - 6:30p Fort St. John 7:00p - 7:50p Prince George 8:05p - 9:25p Vancouver
Op: Weds., Fri. only
Equip: Britannia Empress

I cannot help but think the Britannia was a rather large airplane to operate on this route. Perhaps Canadian Pacific came to this realization as well as their April 24, 1966 timetable lists flights CP 21 and CP 22 being operated with Douglas DC-6B equipment on the same basic schedules (although frequency into Watson Lake had increased to three flights a week in each direction by this time).

By 1970, the airline had changed its name to CP Air and these routes were being operated with Boeing 737-200 aircraft. According to their July 15, 1970 system timetable, flight numbers CP 21 and CP 22 were still in use although the round trip routing was Vancouver-Prince George-Whitehorse and was flown daily. The milk run routing had changed by this time and was Edmonton-Grande Prairie-Fort St. John-Fort Nelson-Watson Lake-Whitehorse. This round trip routing was operated daily with the exception that Watson Lake was served three days a week in each direction.

Last edited by jlemon; Feb 13, 2015 at 9:24 am Reason: additional info
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Old Feb 13, 2015, 9:22 am
  #6829  
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15-minute thru stops at Fort Nelson and Watson Lake on a plane the size of a Brit must have been entertaining
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Old Feb 13, 2015, 9:26 am
  #6830  
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Originally Posted by jrl767
15-minute thru stops at Fort Nelson and Watson Lake on a plane the size of a Brit must have been entertaining
Yep, I'll bet they were....although I have the feelng that not too many passengers boarded and deplaned from the Britannia at these CP stations.
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Old Feb 13, 2015, 3:03 pm
  #6831  
 
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Originally Posted by jrl767
15-minute thru stops at Fort Nelson and Watson Lake on a plane the size of a Brit must have been entertaining
Given the ever-present difficulties with starting the Britannia's Bristol Proteus (alias "Protesting" to the crew) engines, which might include the ground crew holding onto the prop blades, each engine in turn, until a certain point in the sequence (scary sounding but I don't think anyone was ever chopped by it) I would say the flight engineer would have their work cut out to come even close to such times. The DC6B may have fired up its R-2800s with smoke and the odd flames and backfire, but it was just like starting four car engines in comparison.

Two false starts on a Brit engine and the ground engineer had to drain the fuel lines before having another go.
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Old Feb 13, 2015, 4:24 pm
  #6832  
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Originally Posted by WHBM
Given the ever-present difficulties with starting the Britannia's Bristol Proteus (alias "Protesting" to the crew) engines, which might include the ground crew holding onto the prop blades, each engine in turn, until a certain point in the sequence (scary sounding but I don't think anyone was ever chopped by it) I would say the flight engineer would have their work cut out to come even close to such times. The DC6B may have fired up its R-2800s with smoke and the odd flames and backfire, but it was just like starting four car engines in comparison.

Two false starts on a Brit engine and the ground engineer had to drain the fuel lines before having another go.
I wonder if the CP flight crew kept the starboard engines turning on the Britannia during these 15 minute turns.....thus winning half the battle, as it were.....
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Old Feb 13, 2015, 6:19 pm
  #6833  
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actually that's what I had envisioned
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Old Feb 14, 2015, 12:31 am
  #6834  
 
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I doubt that because, with a handful of passengers getting off down steps on the left, the airfreight and mail that was equally a key part of these far north flights, if not more so, would be getting unloaded on the right, through the hatches just ahead of the props and just behind their exhausts.

Hold hatches on right

http://www.airliners.net/photo/UK---...f21e33d1dfcb34

Not on left

http://www.airliners.net/photo/Trans...f21e33d1dfcb34
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Old Feb 15, 2015, 12:03 pm
  #6835  
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4) CP Air was operating three daily nonstop flights between Vancouver and Toronto at this time. Each flight was operated with a different aircraft type. Name all three types. Answered - Boeing 747, 727-100 & 727-200

6) What was the largest aircraft type being flown nonstop between San Juan (SJU) and Tortola (EIS) in the British Virgin Islands at this time and what airline operated the service?

8) Only one airline was operating jet service into Uranium City, Saskatchewan at this time with two flights a week, Identify the air carrier and the equipment.

9) Two airlines were competing on the Montreal - Val D'Or, Quebec route at this time. One air carrier flew two different but similar aircraft types while the other airline operated three very different aircraft types on the route. Name both air carriers and the respective equipment.

11) You are in Atlanta having dinner with good friends. A message is delivered: can you make an early afternoon meeting in Las Vegas the next day? You discover there is a departure in the morning from ATL at 10:16am that will get you into LAS at 12:43pm which is the earliest arrival time. This flight operates daily and makes one intermediate stop en route. Name the airline, the aircraft and the one stop.

17) Fill in the blanks concerning this air carrier ad: "They went thataway. (With _______ to Australia.) Here's a hint: this ad was promoting the airline's service from Los Angeles. And for bonus points, identify the aircraft type mentioned in this ad with this statement in mind: "Aboard one of our _______ seated in the roomiest Economy seat of any comparable jet."

22) In the winter of 1991, this airline was operating nonstop jet service once a week from Vail, Colorado via Eagle County Airport (EGE) to both Los Angeles (LAX) and San Francisco (SFO). And this same air carrier was also flying nonstop five days a week to a third destination. Identify the airline and this third destination.

25) Also in the fall of 1994, three airlines were operating nonstop jet service from St. Thomas (STT) to St. Croix (STX) in the U.S. Virgin Islands. These airlines operated different aircraft types on the route. One carrier operated daily, the second airline flew six days a week and the third carrier operated twice a week. Identify all three airlines and the respective equipment.


Still looking for answers for these quiz items.....

Last edited by jlemon; Mar 2, 2015 at 12:29 pm Reason: answer updates
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Old Feb 15, 2015, 12:27 pm
  #6836  
 
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Originally Posted by jlemon
10) This airline was operating a classic milk run flight from Indianapolis to New York JFK. The service was operated six days a week, departed IND at 8:00am, arrived JFK at 2:26pm and made six stops en route. Identify the air carrier, the aircraft and all six stops.
I vividly remember boarding an eastbound flight from IND at that hour in 1976. It was Allegheny to CAK, continuing to PIT. Other stops? I don't know but I'll guess MDT, PHL, AVP, ABE.
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Old Feb 15, 2015, 12:40 pm
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Originally Posted by jlemon
21) In the fall of 1986, this airline was operating scheduled passenger flights with a Tupolev 154 into Miami. Name the air carrier.
How about Guyana Airways? Possibly in Tarom livery.
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Old Feb 15, 2015, 1:02 pm
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21) In the fall of 1986, this airline was operating scheduled passenger flights with a Tupolev 154 into Miami. Name the air carrier.
I think this would be Guyana Airways, who were the only operator of the Tu154 in The Americas at the time, coming in from Georgetown. They got a new aircraft early in 1986, which after a few years was disposed to Cubana, and later went back to Russia, where it has trickled through a few secondary operators. Last heard of in Krasnoyarsk only a few years ago, so it might still be flying. You would think that Cubana would have been well placed to support this one-aircraft operation, but bizarrely this was done by Tarom of Romania, who had also provided a loan aircraft the previous year fully painted up in Guyana colours.

** Aha. Beaten to it above **

Last edited by WHBM; Feb 15, 2015 at 1:04 pm Reason: Not quick enough
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Old Feb 15, 2015, 1:44 pm
  #6839  
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Originally Posted by kochleffel
I vividly remember boarding an eastbound flight from IND at that hour in 1976. It was Allegheny to CAK, continuing to PIT. Other stops? I don't know but I'll guess MDT, PHL, AVP, ABE.
10) Allegheny (AL) is correct! And Pittsburgh was one of the six stops. In fact, PIT was stop #3 on the route.

However, CAK, MDT, PHL, AVP and ABE are all incorrect. And we are also still seeking the aircraft type here.
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Old Feb 15, 2015, 2:02 pm
  #6840  
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Originally Posted by kochleffel
How about Guyana Airways? Possibly in Tarom livery.
21) Correct! As WHBM points out, Guyana Airways operated two Tupolev 154 aircraft during its existence. It has been reported that one aircraft, a Tu154B2, was painted in Tarom's colors while the other aircraft, a Tu154M, was operated in full Guyana Airways livery. And in addition to the service into Miami, Guyana Airways was also operating the Tupolev 154 into New York JFK as well as Port of Spain, Trinidad (POS) during the mid 1980s.

Last edited by jlemon; Feb 15, 2015 at 2:23 pm Reason: clarification
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