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Old Timer's Airline Quiz and Discussion

Old Timer's Airline Quiz and Discussion

Old Oct 19, 14, 1:03 pm
  #6196  
 
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I think that Mini and JL have, between them, got this right, for the first UK airline to operate into the USA was indeed Imperial Airways on a service from Bermuda. It didn't come all the way from London though.

There was just one aircraft, Short S.23 Empire class G-ADUU "Cavalier" 4-engined flying boat, taken from the fleet which ran to Asia and Africa, which was shipped out in crates to Bermuda and put together there. Crews were on long-term detachment. First scheduled service was 17 May 1937 to New York (complete answer to question), it took 5.5 hours. British Airways ran a special Concorde flight on the route 50 years later to commemorate. It took a bit less time ! The US terminal was at Port Washington, on Long Island, initially approached over Manhattan for air-to-air publicity shots from another aircraft with a New York City backdrop. Meanwhile, on the same day, Pan Am started on the same route with an equivalent Sikorsky S.42 flying boat. Both airlines published a joint timetable.

In winter 1937-8 the service was operated to Baltimore instead, being cautious about icing conditions any further north. The next winter they didn't do so, and alas Cavalier was lost mid-trip after departing New York on 21 January 1939 due to icing of engines and airframe. Most on board were rescued after many hours in the water. It appears the aircraft did not have life rafts. There wasn't another Imperial aircraft to hand, so after nearly two years that was the end of the first UK airline schedule.

I have a 1938 OAG
[ENVIOUS] Wow ! [/ENVIOUS]

Last edited by WHBM; Oct 19, 14 at 3:18 pm Reason: Didn't make sense !
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Old Oct 19, 14, 2:14 pm
  #6197  
 
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Fast forward nearly 40 years later.....and we have a follow up quiz item.

In early 1976, three airlines were flying nonstop service between Bermuda and the New York City area:

Air carriers #1 and #2 were each operating two different aircraft types with service to and from two airports in the New York City area. Identify these airlines, the airports served by each air carrier and the respective equipment they were flying on these routes. And here's a hint: four different aircraft types were being operated by these two air carriers between BDA and the NYC area.

Air carrier #3 was operating just one aircraft type and was only serving one airport in the New York City area. However, effective on February 22 of that year, another aircraft type then began service on the route thus replacing the first type. Name the airline, the airport served in the NYC area and the two different aircraft.

ANSWERED

Last edited by jlemon; Oct 20, 14 at 6:54 pm
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Old Oct 19, 14, 4:43 pm
  #6198  
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1976-NYC/Bermuda air service
American had DC10 service from JFK and 707 service from EWR
Eastern used L10 from JFK and 727 from EWR

Could the third airline be Pan Am, first using 707 from JFK, and then 747?

We got some snowflakes here in Vermont, mixed with the cold rain....MUCH TOO EARLY!
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Old Oct 19, 14, 5:24 pm
  #6199  
 
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Originally Posted by cs57 View Post
1976-NYC/Bermuda air service
American had DC10 service from JFK and 707 service from EWR
Eastern used L10 from JFK and 727 from EWR

Could the third airline be Pan Am, first using 707 from JFK, and then 747?

We got some snowflakes here in Vermont, mixed with the cold rain....MUCH TOO EARLY!
Hello cs57!

American with nonstop Boeing 707 service (aircraft may have been a B707-323C) between EWR and BDA is correct! Actual eastbound routing for AA 639 was PHL-EWR-BDA operated on a daily basis.

American was also flying nonstop between JFK and BDA.....but not with a DC10.

Eastern with nonstop Boeing 72S service (B727-225) between EWR and BDA is also correct! Eastbound routing for EA 811 was PHL-EWR-BDA flown daily.

Eastern was also operating nonstop between JFK and BDA....however, the aircraft type was not a Lockheed L-1011.

And Pan Am was not operating between JFK and BDA at this time.

Indian summer here at present in south Louisiana.....clear, blue skies with low humidity and an air temp of 78 degrees F. It's a lovely late afternoon here as the sun sets in the west.

The leaves are falling thick and fast from our trees and firewood gathering operations were undertaken in earnest earlier this afternoon by yours truly. My chainsaw got quite the work out.....
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Old Oct 19, 14, 5:52 pm
  #6200  
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Bermuda service guesses:
(1) AA JFK-BDA 747
(2) EA JFK-BDA 727-100
(3) DL JFK-BDA L-1011 and DC-8-61
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Old Oct 19, 14, 7:58 pm
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Originally Posted by jrl767 View Post
when my family went to "Expo '67" in Montreal my father was nice enough to indulge my request to go by the airport so I could pick up timetables and perhaps take a few pictures ... I distinctly remember seeing a couple of Connies, with a white "N" on their blue tails, parked by a hangar on the far side of the runways ... I may actually still have the black-and-white photos in an album in a box in the storage area of our Seattle house

that stop at YUL was also the only time I ever laid eyes on a Vanguard
I too went to Expo '67. I was drinking chocolate milk when DeGaulle gave his speech. I know I flew EA to/from YUL. But sadly, I don't have record or memory of the specific itinerary or equipment - I was only three years old.
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Old Oct 20, 14, 8:18 am
  #6202  
 
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Originally Posted by jrl767 View Post
Bermuda service guesses:
(1) AA JFK-BDA 747 - Correct (B747-123)
(2) EA JFK-BDA 727-100 - Correct (B727-25)
(3) DL JFK-BDA L-1011 and DC-8-61 - Incorrect with regard to air carrier and both aircraft types
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Old Oct 20, 14, 8:37 am
  #6203  
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Bermuda again: British Airways, JFK <--> BDA, 707 and 747
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Old Oct 20, 14, 9:31 am
  #6204  
 
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Originally Posted by jlemon View Post
Hello cs57!
And Pan Am was not operating between JFK and BDA at this time.
PA's BDA authority (along with PA's authority from the US Northeast to the Dominican Republic and Barbados) was swapped with AA, in exchange for AA's Hawaii / South Pacific routes. AA kept STL-HNL for a year or two after the route swap, before suspending it in 1977.
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Old Oct 20, 14, 9:52 am
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Originally Posted by Indelaware View Post
I too went to Expo '67. I was drinking chocolate milk when DeGaulle gave his speech.
Ah yes, a moment in French relations with Canada/UK/USA. Had Churchill still been alive he would have doubtless said "Oh ..... typical".
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Old Oct 20, 14, 12:02 pm
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Originally Posted by jrl767 View Post
Bermuda again: British Airways, JFK <--> BDA: Correct, 707: Correct and 747: Incorrect
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Old Oct 20, 14, 5:45 pm
  #6207  
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BA--JFK/BDA with VC10? (1976)
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Old Oct 20, 14, 6:42 pm
  #6208  
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Bonus Question: What was the first US airline to operate an all first class jet? What type of airplane was it?

Per jrl767: Seems to me that we were discussing this a couple months ago ... I want to say that Delta introduced their Convair 880s in an all-F configuration ~1960

Per jlemon: Well, I think United operated the Caravelle in an all first class configuration.....

jrl767 is correct! Delta was the first with its Convair 880s in 1960. United introduced its all First Class configured Caravelles in 1961. Whereas Delta eventually converted its 880s to a two-class configuration, I believe United's Caravelles remained all First Class throughout their operation with United.

BTW, I apologize for the delay in answering this latest batch of questions. I've been down in Flamingo, Florida (try finding that on a map) with neither internet or cell phone service. I'm presently inflight to Seattle and answers should come in a more timely fashion from now on... Thank you for your patience!
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Old Oct 20, 14, 6:49 pm
  #6209  
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Originally Posted by jlemon View Post
15. (in late 1981) From Miami, two airlines operate DC-3 flights to two separate destinations within Florida. Identify the airlines and the respective routes flown

I think one of these air carriers was most likely Provincetown-Boston Airlines. PBA was known for "migrating" portions of their fleet from the northeastern U.S. to Florida during the winter months in order to provide increased seasonal service in the Sunshine State. Let's go with Miami-Naples as a PBA DC-3 route.

The other airline was a bit more obscure: Pro Air Services (not to be confused with new start up Pro Air which operated Boeing 737-400 service out of Detroit City Airport some years later). Route was probably Miami-Key West. Air Florida was operating Boeing 737-200 service Miami-Key West as well at this time. Back in the late 1980's, I flew into and out of EYW on board a Fokker F28 Fellowship twin jet operated by Piedmont.....

Were you perhaps involved in publishing these schedules, jlemon? Very Good! You are correct on both counts.

My first DC-3 flight came in 1986 aboard PBA between Naples and Miami, after having flown into Naples from Miami aboard a Piedmont F28
.
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Old Oct 20, 14, 6:53 pm
  #6210  
 
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Originally Posted by cs57 View Post
BA--JFK/BDA with VC10? (1976)
Correct! Here are the scheds.....

BA 580: JFK 2:45p - 5:45p BDA
Op: Daily
Equip: V10

BA 581: BDA 6:50p - 8:00p JFK
Op: Daily
Equip: V10

It appears this VC10 service was turned around in Bermuda in order to head back to JFK and thus did not continue on a transatlantic routing. We do know from previous posts from WHBM that British Airways had quite an operation at JFK at one point. I'm also wondering if the equipment was actually a Super VC10 and not the standard model.

Then, on February 22 of that year, British Airways began flying the same exact service with a Boeing 707 (perhaps a B707-436 model) as BA 580 and 581.
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