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Old Timer's Airline Quiz and Discussion

Old Timer's Airline Quiz and Discussion

Old Feb 18, 12, 5:32 pm
  #541  
 
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Originally Posted by Cattle Airlines View Post
4. Former 717 operators in the Western Hemisphere:

current=Hawaiian, AirTran

Mexicana
Midwest Airlines
TWA
Correct!

A Mexicana subsidiary, MexicanaClick, operated the B717.

The parent company of the current Frontier phased out the B717s when Midwest was merged into Frontier. The Midwest B717s featured an all biz class configuration with 2-2 seating.

American phased out the TWA B717s after AA acquired TW. I believe American stated the B717s were not needed as AA was operating the Fokker 100 at the time.

It also appears that Southwest may phase out the AirTran B717s at some point in order to stay with an all 737 fleet. This remains to be seen, of course........

And in a recent interview which appeared in an airline trade publication (either ATW or Airline Business but, of course, I cannot find the bloody issue now that I want to see it again), Hawaiian Air President & CEO Mark Dunkerley stated that he is very pleased with the B717 as it is an excellent, well made aircraft and that HA has no plans to replace them anytime soon. The latest variation of the venerable DC-9 lives on!

Last edited by jlemon; Feb 18, 12 at 5:52 pm Reason: Additional info concerning HA
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Old Feb 18, 12, 6:03 pm
  #542  
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Originally Posted by cs57 View Post
US Air Carriers flying 747SP----from memory, I would say--
Pan Am, American, Braniff
Originally Posted by jlemon View Post
And I believe United operated the B747SP as well with these aircraft being acquired from Pan Am when UA bought PA's Pacific division for a mere $750 million, if I remember correctly......
Originally Posted by Seat 2A View Post
Don't forget who Pan Am sold theirs to via the sale of its Pacific route network. Also, there was one other American flag carrier that operated them.
Originally Posted by WHBM View Post
Besides United buying Pan Am's fleet, both TWA and American had them, and they both came through London. American bought the old TWA routes through Heathrow and, caught short for long-haul types at the time, started with a real rag-bag of aircraft types, some secondhand - 747SPs, DC-10-30s, A300s, B767s. United then did the same, buying Pan Am's routes, and got a fleet of 747 classics from Qantas to operate them initially.
Pan Am, TWA, United, American, Braniff...

Very good responses! American got some TWA 747SP's but got rid of them. It had to get more in order to fly a new DFW-NRT (Tokyo) route that it won or risk losing the route.

Transatlantic International Airways owned 2 747SP for a short time in 2004 but never started service.

Imprecise question: What's Boeing combi model sold only two planes? Hint: Not a 717 Combi. No such thing. Not a 737-200 Combi. A bunch sold.
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Old Feb 18, 12, 6:06 pm
  #543  
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Originally Posted by jlemon View Post
And in a recent interview which appeared in an airline trade publication (either ATW or Airline Business but, of course, I cannot find the bloody issue now that I want to see it again), Hawaiian Air President & CEO Mark Dunkerley stated that he is very pleased with the B717 as it is an excellent, well made aircraft and that HA has no plans to replace them anytime soon. The latest variation of the venerable DC-9 lives on!
I have daydreamed about running a fictitious airline that started in the mid-1970's but didn't get bigger until after airline deregulation. Choosing planes that seemed logical at the time, my airline would have flown the 717. It probably wouldn't have survived past the early 1980's to even get 717's.
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Old Feb 18, 12, 8:08 pm
  #544  
 
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Originally Posted by Cattle Airlines View Post
I have daydreamed about running a fictitious airline that started in the mid-1970's but didn't get bigger until after airline deregulation. Choosing planes that seemed logical at the time, my airline would have flown the 717. It probably wouldn't have survived past the early 1980's to even get 717's.
I think the B717 (formerly the MD-95) is a great little jet and have flown on the aircraft interisland with HA.

Boeing did keep it in production for awhile in Long Beach (after acquiring McDonnell Douglas and then shutting down the MD-11 production line); however, in the end I think the 717 was a bit too close to the B737-600 (which apparently did not sell too well, either) and so its fate was sealed.

My Dad worked for Boeing as an aerospace engineer high up in the space division (Apollo, Space Shuttle, etc.) and was of the opinion that Boeing acquired McDonnell Douglas primarily for the military business the company brought to the table (F-15, F/A-18, C-17, AH-64, etc., etc., etc.). He thought that Boeing was really not all that interested in MD's civil programs (such as the airliners and civil helicopter division, for example). And in retrospect, I think just about all (if not all) of MD's former civil programs have gone by the wayside under the Boeing banner......and it was all purely a business decision.
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Old Feb 18, 12, 8:22 pm
  #545  
 
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Originally Posted by jlemon View Post
Hey Wally Bird, I think I just saw you sitting right in front of the tail on top of a Western B707-320 just a few posts above!
I was much younger then.
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Old Feb 18, 12, 8:26 pm
  #546  
 
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Originally Posted by Wally Bird View Post
I was much younger then.
Indeed, good sir!

We all were!

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Old Feb 19, 12, 11:46 am
  #547  
 
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Originally Posted by 777-100SP View Post
What other crosstown flights were there?

I know United had San Francisco-Oakland service, sometimes continuing to Denver.

Orange County-Los Angeles service also existed.

How about JFK-Laguardia? Or Dulles-Washington National?
I thought I would provide some additional examples here, not only of "interurban" flights, so to speak (such as between SFO, OAK and SJC in the Bay Area and also various services in the LA area), but also some short haul flights within California and elsewhere as well.....

All data for the following is taken from the February 1976 edition of the OAG (my copy of which is beginning to fall apart) in the pre-deregulation days.....

1) There were no flights operated with jet aircraft at this time between JFK, EWR and LGA in the New York City area. However, New York Airways provided frequent scheduled service with twin turbine engine Sikorsky S-61 helicopters between all three airports and also from the Wall Street Heliport (JRB) as well as from Morristown, New Jersey (MMU).

2) In the Washington D.C. area between Washington National (DCA, which is now Reagan Airport) and Baltimore (BWI), Delta operated the B727-200, Eastern operated the DC-9-30 and National operated both the B727-100 and B727-200. One could fly first class in a jet between DCA and BWI for $26.00. Allegheny and Piedmont also flew between DCA and BWI with turboprop equipment: AL - Convair 580, PI - Namco YS-11. There was also AL commuter service with the Beechcraft 99 twin turboprop. There was no service at this time between IAD and DCA or between IAD and BWI.

3) Orange County (SNA, which was known as Santa Ana back then and now as John Wayne Airport) - Los Angeles (LAX) had Hughes Air West DC-9 and DC-9-30 service in addition to frequent DHC-6 "Twin Otter" service operated by Golden West.

Air California also operated B737-200 service between SNA and Ontario (ONT) at this time. In addition, Air California provided B737-200 service between SNA and San Diego (SAN).

4) In the SF Bay Area, United flew three times a day to SFO from OAK: two flights with B727-100 equipment and one flight with a DC-8 Super 60 series. TWA also operated one flight a day with a B727-100 OAK-SFO. Going the other way to OAK from SFO, UA operated two B727-100 flights while American and TWA each had one B727-100 flight. The one way first class air fare in a jet between SFO and OAK was $22.00. SFO Helicopter also provided frequent service with Sikorsky S-61 helicopters.

Jet routings for the above SFO-OAK service:

AA Flt. 572 - B727: SFO-OAK-DFW-OKC-ORD-DCA

TW Flt. 341 - B727: LGA-ORD-OAK-SFO

TW Flt. 342 - B727: SFO-OAK-ORD-LGA

UA Flt. 133 - D8S: PHL-ORD-OAK-SFO

UA Flt. 163 - B727: BOS-DEN-OAK-SFO

UA Flt. 206 - B727: SFO-OAK-PDX-SEA

UA Flt. 369 - B727: SEA-PDX-OAK-SFO

UA Flt. 914 - B727: SFO-OAK-ORD-LGA

Between SFO and San Jose (SJC), Hughes Air West operated the DC-9 and DC-9-30. American also operated a B727-100 between SFO and SJC but was not permitted to carry local traffic. In addition, commuter air carriers Swift Aire and California Air Commuter provided SFO-SJC service with DeHavilland Heron and Piper Navajo aircraft respectively.

Between OAK and SJC, as mentioned earlier, Western operated a B720B on certain days of the week. Hughes Air West also flew between OAK and SJC with several DC-9-30 flights. And Air California flew between OAK and SJC as well with B737-200 and Lockheed L-188 "Electra" turboprop service for $9.00 one way.

5) Back down in the LA area, Western operated a B737-200 between LAX and Ontario (ONT). Golden West also offered frequent LAX-ONT service with the DHC-6 "Twin Otter". Los Angeles Helicopter Airlines offered frequent service between LAX and Burbank (BUR) with Sikorsky S-55 helicopters. Hughes Air West offered several flights a day between BUR and ONT with DC-9 and DC-9-30 aircraft.

6) Other short haul jet flights in California at this time included LAX-Santa Barbara (SBA) via United B727-100 and B737-200 aircraft and also by Hughes Air West DC-9-30s.

SFO-Monterey (MRY) was also served by United and Hughes Air West. UA operated the B727-100, B727-200 and B737-200 while RW operated the DC-9 and DC-9-30 SFO-MRY.

UA also operated the B727-100 and B737-200 between LAX and Bakersfield (BFL).

PSA operated the B727-200 between SAN and BUR and also between SAN and ONT.

Western and Air California operated B737-200s between ONT and Palm Springs (PSP).

Air California also operated B737-200s between SNA and PSP.

And between LAX and SAN, the following airlines provided all jet service: American, Delta, Hughes Air West, National, PSA, United and Western.

AA and NA operated DC-10 flights while Delta operated L-1011 services LAX-SAN.

UA and DL had a number of DC-8 flights (including a DL operated DC-8 Super 60 series) while AA operated the B707 LAX-SAN.

But the number one aircraft on the LAX-SAN route at this time was the B727 (100 and 200 series) with up to 26 flights a day in each direction provided by AA, DL, NA, UA, WA and last, but not certainly least, good old PSA which alone operated up to 15 B727-200 flights a day each way between LAX and SAN (with up to 21 flights a day each way between SAN and the LA area when BUR and ONT are included) with San Diego being the airline's hometown.

Last edited by jlemon; Feb 20, 12 at 8:04 am Reason: Corrections & Additional Routing Info
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Old Feb 19, 12, 1:50 pm
  #548  
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Excellent post and research above. Let me add one to that -

Ft. Worth to Dallas. I have a 1966 OAG that shows Eastern running a 727 on the route. I believe Braniff or American had a jet flight on this route as well. I'll be home in a couple of days and will try to verify this.

Also, West Coast/Air West/ Hughes Air West used to operate an F27 between Seattle and Tacoma.

Additionally, Air West also used to fly LAX-Riverside with its F27s.
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Old Feb 19, 12, 5:07 pm
  #549  
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Here are some more picture questions for y'all. The question is which airline's lounge are we looking at? Some of you may have flown these airlines or, like me, you may have spent a gazillion dollars on stamps during the early 1970s writing to airlines in pursuit of brochures about the airplanes and the service, postcards or menus. Hell, I probably walked twenty miles up and down 5th Avenue on Manhattan during the 70s while visiting endless airline sales offices in search of the above mentioned items.

As always, in order to not abuse bandwidth, please do not copy the actual photos as part of your answer. Just list your answers by number. Again, the question is which airline's lounge are we looking at?



Lounge Number 1



Lounge Number 2



Lounge Number 3



Lounge Number 4



Lounge Number 5



Lounge Number 6
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Old Feb 19, 12, 5:18 pm
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Originally Posted by Seat 2A View Post
Excellent post and research above. Let me add one to that -
One more: Edmonton Downtown (CYXD) to Edmonton Intl (CYEG) operated by Air BC/Jazz until CYXD closed.

PWA may have done the same.
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Old Feb 20, 12, 3:38 am
  #551  
 
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What great photos!!!!!!

#3) Pan American
#5) PSA
#6) American
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Old Feb 20, 12, 7:12 am
  #552  
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Good call on #5 and #6, cs57. For those of you who may wonder why the ceiling is so low, number 5 is PSA's lower deck lounge on their L-1011.

#3 is not Pan American, though...
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Old Feb 20, 12, 1:43 pm
  #553  
 
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I'll make some wild guesses here....

2) Continental?

3) TWA? Or maybe BA? Also note the gentleman to the right of the slim blonde. He appears to be smoking something.....
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Old Feb 20, 12, 2:32 pm
  #554  
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Correct! Number 2 is Continental's Polynesian Pub. This may well have been the largest lounge ever on an airliner, but then there sure were alot of empty seats back in those days. My first ever 747 flight was aboard Continental from Chicago to Denver in 1970. There were maybe 50-60 passengers on the entire plane.

Number 3 is from a country that to this day loves their cigarettes... Can you imagine in a small lounge like that if even ONE person were smoking these days?
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Old Feb 20, 12, 2:41 pm
  #555  
 
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Originally Posted by Seat 2A View Post
Correct! Number 2 is Continental's Polynesian Pub. This may well have been the largest lounge ever on an airliner, but then there sure were alot of empty seats back in those days. My first ever 747 flight was aboard Continental from Chicago to Denver in 1970. There were maybe 50-60 passengers on the entire plane.

Number 3 is from a country that to this day loves their cigarettes... Can you imagine in a small lounge like that if even ONE person were smoking these days?
Ah.....is #3 Lufthansa? Or is it actually Air France?
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