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Old Timer's Airline Quiz and Discussion

Old Timer's Airline Quiz and Discussion

Old Feb 13, 12, 3:55 am
  #421  
 
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I know some of you already know this but for others that don't, I'm answering this one:

Originally Posted by Seat 2A View Post
7. What year did the French built Caravelle enter service?
1959, with SAS, then Air France.
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Old Feb 13, 12, 7:07 am
  #422  
 
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Originally Posted by Seat 2A View Post
8. What British airline's livery was almost (if not, truly was) an exact copy of U.S. based Continental Airlines pre-1968 livery?
This was Channel Airways, a somewhat strange shoestring operation based at Southend, a backwoods airfield about 35 miles east of London. They were a decidedly rickety operation from 1947 through to their final demise, which was exactly 40 years ago this week, February 1972. They got into all sorts of different market segments, none of which ever seemed to work for them.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Channel_Airways

Channel bought a batch of Vickers Viscounts from Continental in the USA. Squadron Leader Jack Jones, who owned the airline, liked the Continental livery they came with, but more in his mind was probably saving the cost of repainting. So they were put into service with just a change of name, even using the same font that Continental did (contrary to what Wikipedia says, these ex-CO aircraft were of course the first in the CO livery the airline had).

Later they made some extraordinarily optimistic purchases of new jet aircraft, many of which they had to cancel before delivery, to use on holiday charter flights, which the British call "going to the Continent", so "Continental Golden Jet" suited them perfectly, although these aircraft had no connection with CO in the USA. I wonder if they ever knew Channel had done this. They even had the golden circled Eagle from Continental's old logo on the nose. The Tridents (they were the only independent airline ever to buy these) were particularly bizarre. They ordered five, cancelled three before delivery, and mostly just flew one, the second, virtually new, being steadily robbed for spares at Stansted airport. The "good" Trident was kept going with charter flights out of West Berlin down to the Mediterranean. In typical Channel fashion the Tridents were too large for the runway length at their Southend base but this was only addressed after they arrived, when the maintenance team had to do the hour's drive each way to Stansted (also a complete backwoods place then, but with a long ex-WW2 runway) when they came in there.

I did say I saw the old Continental livery in public service in recent times. Well, because Channel operated from such out-of-the-way places they needed to charter coaches from London, departing from "Kings Cross Coach Station" (which was a kerbside point in a back street next to the train station), and eventually bought up their main contractor and badged it as Channel Coachways, with a bus livery the same as the aircraft, white, gold and black. When the airline went bankrupt the bus operation was sold off separately, and kept going with a typical assortment of schoolkids to the zoo, theatre groups, replacing the London to Southend commuter train if it was out of action, etc. And on they went from 1972, keeping the livery, while in best Channel tradition their vehicles over the years always seemed secondhand and down-at-heel. It was only a few years ago, having finally changed their livery, that the last of the old buses disappeared from the roads of East London.

I've looked on the web for pictures, was hoping for colour but can only find these here in b/w. Old Continental Airlines enthusiasts will instantly recognise the slanting font and the Eagle logo, and on the bus side (not visible) was a huge Eagle logo; I used to wonder when they passed me on the road if they were still using up the spare stock of old jet nose decals.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/sludgeulper/3099083065/
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Old Feb 13, 12, 2:08 pm
  #423  
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Thanks for the background, WHBM. When you hear the stories behind some airline operations, it's a wonder the airline ever managed to get off the ground at all. Here is a color picture of a Channel Airways Trident...


Channel Airways Continental Golden Jet
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Old Feb 13, 12, 2:20 pm
  #424  
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Originally Posted by tonywestsider View Post
I know some of you already know this but for others that don't, I'm answering this one:

1959, with SAS, then Air France.
That's the ticket, Tony! And a fine looking airliner she was, too!



Ethiopian Air Lines Caravelle
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Old Feb 13, 12, 6:36 pm
  #425  
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This is a new approach for this question, but let's give it a try.
HOWEVER, please do not copy all the pictures as part of your answer. Just refer to them as #1, #3, etc.

So, which of the following aircraft pictured are real as opposed to unreal?



Number 1: Real or Unreal?



Number 2: Real or Unreal?



Number 3: Real or Unreal?



Number 4: Real or Unreal?



Number 5: Real or Unreal?



Number 6: Real or Unreal?
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Old Feb 13, 12, 9:25 pm
  #426  
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Again, please do not copy all the pictures as part of your answer. Just refer to them as #1, #3, etc.

So, which of the following aircraft pictured are real as opposed to unreal?



Number 7: Real or Unreal?



Number 8: Real or Unreal?



Number 9: Real or Unreal?



Number 10: Real or Unreal?



Number 11: Real or Unreal?



Number 12: Real or Unreal?[/QUOTE]
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Old Feb 13, 12, 11:45 pm
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Originally Posted by Seat 2A View Post
This is a new approach for this question, but let's give it a try.
HOWEVER, please do not copy all the pictures as part of your answer. Just refer to them as #1, #3, etc.
Ok, I'm just guessing at this so I stand to be corrected:

#1: Air Florida DC-8 50, unreal (they did not fly DC-8s)
#2: Air Illinois BAC One Eleven, real
#3: Alaska Airlines Boeing 720B, real
#4: Allegheny Airlines Boeing 727-200, real
#5: American Airlines Boeing 737-900, unreal (I think AA operates the 800 series, they don't have the 900 series yet...)
#6: Delta Air Lines Boeing 747-400, unreal (DL had 747 earlier versions and phase them out in the early to mid-1970s; the 400 series started service in 1989, I think with UA; DL never had 747-400s in their old 1970s livery but actually operates 747-400s today in their new livery, post NW merger and former NW planes)

Last edited by tonywestsider; Feb 14, 12 at 12:02 am
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Old Feb 14, 12, 4:08 am
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Originally Posted by Seat 2A View Post
Number 1: Real or Unreal?
Unreal. Although Air Florida did run DC8s, they were leased from Miami charter carrier Rich, and didn't carry the full AF livery or the AF tail number suffix. Plus they were DC8-62s that were leased.

Supplementary question. Which US DC8 operator DID have their aircraft with an AF suffix tail number.

Number 2: Real or Unreal?
Real. Leased from US Air in 1982. Air Illinois didn't keep up the payments, so in 1984 the US Air repo man turned up one night ....

Number 3: Real or Unreal?
Real. That's one of the Alaska Boeing 720s (not 720B; different engines) that had been through several users along the way.

Number 4: Real or Unreal?
Real. One of several 727-200s that Allegheny bought shortly before they changed their name.

Number 5: Real or Unreal?
Fake. American have never had a series -900 737. Nor have many other carriers either - a real poor seller.

Number 6: Real or Unreal?
Fake. That's the old Delta colours on a 747-400, which type they only got recently with the merger.

Another supplementary; we did used to get 747s in this colour scheme at London Heathrow, long before Delta had authority to come to Europe. How did that happen ?
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Old Feb 14, 12, 5:20 am
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Number 8-- Unreal, as Avianca did not operate the SP.
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Old Feb 14, 12, 8:30 am
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Originally Posted by WHBM View Post
Fake. That's the old Delta colours on a 747-400, which type they only got recently with the merger.

Another supplementary; we did used to get 747s in this colour scheme at London Heathrow, long before Delta had authority to come to Europe. How did that happen ?
Interchange with Panam allowed Dellta aircraft and crews to operate through PA service ATL-LHR, kind of an early "codeshare". Started with DL DC-8s in 1963 (IIRC).

There was a similar arrangement between BA/BOAC and Teal/Air NZ whereby NZ DC-10s flew AKL-LAX-LHR.
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Old Feb 14, 12, 9:49 am
  #431  
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Excellent job, all of youse. The one caveat would be regarding the timing on that Allegheny 727-200. It's one of two that Allegheny bought in 1970. It was quickly determined that the -200 was too large for AL's needs at the time and in 1971 the aircraft were traded to BN in exchange for BAC-111s. The name change to US Air didn't come until 1979.A

So that leaves us with numbers 7,9,10 & 12. And what the heck, here's a couple more:



Number 13: Real or Unreal?



Number 14: Real or Unreal?

Last edited by Seat 2A; Feb 14, 12 at 9:56 am
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Old Feb 14, 12, 9:58 am
  #432  
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Deleted due to accidental dupe post

Last edited by Seat 2A; Feb 14, 12 at 11:29 am
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Old Feb 14, 12, 10:04 am
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Originally Posted by Wally Bird View Post
Interchange with Panam allowed Dellta aircraft and crews to operate through PA service ATL-LHR, kind of an early "codeshare". Started with DL DC-8s in 1963 (IIRC).

There was a similar arrangement between BA/BOAC and Teal/Air NZ whereby NZ DC-10s flew AKL-LAX-LHR.
Actually somewhat different. The BA/Air NZ arrangement was a straight hire of an aircraft with the capability to do London to LAX nonstop, which BA (believe it or not) did not have until the 747-200Bs came into the fleet in 1978. Yes, Pan Am and TWA did the route with 747-100s, but BA's margins for reserves on this type were somewhat higher. The round trip London to LAX was about 25 hours, so it just didn't quite fit a single aircraft, however Air NZ had hitherto been laying over for about 8 hours or more at LAX, so the eastbound aircraft left there for London shortly before the westbound one arrived. BA were actually operating a through flight to Auckland, New Zealand at the time, a 747, it went "the other way", through Singapore and Australia.

I was a regular on that flight LHR-LAX at the time it was operating (1976 to 1979); there used to be questions from passengers at the aircraft steps in London when they saw an unexpected name on the aircraft. Full BA crew, they trained up a small group of their pilots on the DC-10. They went for their simulator training and recurrent checks over to KLM in Amsterdam. It wasn't really marketed as a through flight, always just shown a a prominent connection between two airlines.

Even the performance of the DC-10 was somewhat marginal; if it looked as if the westbound (always the tough direction) didn't fit in, firstly they would dump some freight, then would do a fuel stop, typically at Glasgow Prestwick, from where they were about an hour's flying closer to LAX.

Meanwhile the Pan Am (in particular) westbound 747-100 departures on summer afternoons with full fuel for LAX used to worry the Heathrow tower more than a little as they evidently had poor climb performance. Once it was gone there were more relaxed comments, about eastbound departures being "via the Piccadilly Line", or it being a "Hedge Clipper".

Last edited by WHBM; Feb 14, 12 at 10:10 am
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Old Feb 14, 12, 10:51 am
  #434  
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Please post answers to picture posts

Originally Posted by WHBM View Post
T

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Channel_Airways
(contrary to what Wikipedia says, these ex-CO aircraft were of course the first in the CO livery the airline had).
Wikipedia is an evil website. There are some areas where nasty amateur and juvenile webmasters (called administrators) abuse people. Those administrators vote each other to get the job and are anonymous. I once corrected an error and they changed back to the error and threatened to ban me. Another person complained that an administrator looked into IP records and hacked into their computer. Wikipedia is a good concept but is evil.

As far as the picture posts, please post the correct answer in one post eventually. Great questions!
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Old Feb 14, 12, 10:53 am
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Originally Posted by Seat 2A View Post

So that leaves us with numbers 7,9,10 & 12. And what the heck, here's a couple more
10: TWA Boeing 757. Unreal.

TWA had some 757's but not that one.
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