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Old Timer's Airline Quiz and Discussion.

Old Timer's Airline Quiz and Discussion.

Old Jan 27, 2014, 12:23 pm
  #4156  
 
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Originally Posted by JoeDTW
OK, this is my first posting to this thread, so please go easy on me!
Welcome here

4. During the 1970s and 1980s, this was the only Eastern Bloc airline to operate flights to Tel Aviv, Israel.
Tarom of Romania. El Al also operated into Bucharest in return as well.

16. Air France was the launch customer of the A300. What was the second airline to fly the A300?
I'll offer an obscure Thailand carrier called Varan Air Siam. Airbus were desperate for orders for the first A300s, and did a lease deal for one aircraft with this carrier, they got it a few months after the first Air France one was delivered, in 1974. They went out of business about 12 months later, and Airbus got the aircraft back.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:A..._Volpati-2.jpg

The third operator was also small-scale, TEA, a holiday airline based in Brussels, Belgium, got one of the shorter-fuselage A300 prototypes (not to be confused with the A310) shortly after Varan Air Siam. In their case, they flew it for around 20 years, there was of course no resale value for such a one-off, until it was finally retired.
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Old Jan 27, 2014, 1:28 pm
  #4157  
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Greetings from sunny California. You'll forgive me please if I respond to these answers from a moving train - to wit, the San Joaquin trundling up the tracks towards Madera as I type.


Originally Posted by jrl22

16. Air France was the launch customer of the A300. What was the second airline to fly the A300?

How about Lufthansa?

A good guess, jrl22, one that I would likely have submitted as well if I hadn't discovered the answer is another, more obscure airline.

20. Name two U.S. airlines in operation before 1990 that operated an all coach fleet and later added a section marketed as Business Class (Not First Class)

I can recall PeoplExpress offering "Premium Class" when they introduced their 747s; perhaps the other was Midwest Express?

I'm pretty sure that while PE's best seating was marketed as "Premium Class", it was an actual First Class service. Midwest Express offered an all Business Class cabin right from the start.

1. This was the only airline serving Westchester County Airport in White Plains, NY. It operated 8 flights on weekdays.


Mohawk, with a mix of FH-227B and BAC-111 service

Alas, it was a different airline, operating a different aircraft. That said, you're close. Very Close.
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Old Jan 27, 2014, 1:50 pm
  #4158  
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Originally Posted by JoeDTW
OK, this is my first posting to this thread, so please go easy on me!

Welcome aboard, Joe! We're glad to have you along for the ride. We know you have a choice of threads, so we're happy you chose this one

9. What was the first British airline to operate the Boeing 727?

I think it was Dan Air London. Dan Air also has the dubious distinction of crashing one of their 727-100s into a mountain on Tenerife in 1980, with 146 fatalities. I believe this was the worst 727-100 accident.

Right on, Joe. Dan Air it was. I seem to recall that its high density 727-100s also had a second exit door back by the engines, much like the 727-200.

11. What was the first fatal jet airliner crash?

It depends on whether or not passengers were aboard. The first commercial jet crash with fatalities was a Canadian Pacific Comet at Karachi on 3 March 1953. The aircraft was on a ferry flight, and 11 crew members, but no passengers, lost their lives. The first crash with passenger fatalities was two months later, when a BOAC Comet crashed at Calcutta on 2 May 1953.


The CP crash at Karachi is the answer I was looking for, but we all appreciate any additional detail you care to provide. It's always fun to read of sightings such as the AF Concorde one you describe below. I'll keep an eye out for that if I ever come across that film again. Thanks!

4. In 1972, these two foreign carriers enjoyed fifth freedom rights on the Chicago – Montreal route.

Air France is the obvious answer. I think the other airline was Swissair.

Quite a few different airlines have enjoyed Fifth Freedom rights on this route. You've got one of them right. Per the schedule I was using, the other one was not Swissair. But here's a hint: The airlines' name ends in "A"

Regarding Air France Concordes at Rio: my all time favorite scene of an airliner in the movies was in the James Bond movie "Moonraker" - Roger Moore takes the Concorde to Rio to meet up with CIA agent Dr. Holly Goodhead as they pursue Hugo Drax. The movie has footage of an Air France Concorde landing at GIG, with water vortices blowing off its wings, as a TransBrasil 727 waits to take off in the background - gorgeous!

Last edited by Seat 2A; Feb 2, 2014 at 1:36 am
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Old Jan 27, 2014, 2:01 pm
  #4159  
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Originally Posted by jlemon

20. Name two U.S. airlines in operation before 1990 that operated an all coach fleet and later added a section marketed as Business Class (Not First Class)

I'm pretty sure Hughes Airwest installed a C class section on their jet aircraft. As for the other air carrier, let's go with Muse Air.

Both Hughes Airwest and Muse Air are correct, though I don't think Muse Air offered a Business Class cabin until it became Transtar. I had forgotten about Muse Air, which means there's one more airline out there if you'd care to have a go.


21. Name two U.S. airlines operating prior to 1990 that once offered First Class but switched to an all coach configuration.

TTa (which later became Texas International) initially began DC9-10 operations with a first and coach config on their aircraft. In fact, if memory serves me correctly, TT's nines had 20 seats in the front cabin. This did not last very long and the aircraft were reconfigured into an all coach config. The other airline? Wild guess time: Frontier with an F/Y config on their B727-100 aircraft.

You are correct, sir! Additionally, there was one more airline as well. Anyone care to have a gander at which one?
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Old Jan 27, 2014, 2:03 pm
  #4160  
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Originally Posted by Seat 2A
Greetings from sunny California. You'll forgive me please if I respond to these answers from a moving train - to wit, the San Joaquin trundling up the tracks towards Madera as I type.



1. This was the only airline serving Westchester County Airport in White Plains, NY. It operated 8 flights on weekdays.
Originally Posted by jrl22
Mohawk, with a mix of FH-227B and BAC-111 service
Alas, it was a different airline, operating a different aircraft. That said, you're close. Very Close.
in Feb 1972, MO was indeed operating these services as can be seen here

http://www.departedflights.com/MO020172p14.html

which makes me suspect your OAG was from later in the year, and reflects that MO had been absorbed into Allegheny ... AL quickly parked the FH7s in favor of their larger Convair 580s, and began integrating the One-Elevens into their operations along with the DC9-30s that had been the backbone of their fleet
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Old Jan 27, 2014, 2:09 pm
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Which airline has a winged mountain goat, the flying mouflon, as its logo?
That would be Cyprus Airways, an airline that I have not flown.
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Old Jan 27, 2014, 2:11 pm
  #4162  
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Originally Posted by WHBM

4. During the 1970s and 1980s, this was the only Eastern Bloc airline to operate flights to Tel Aviv, Israel.

Tarom of Romania. El Al also operated into Bucharest in return as well.

Spot on! I found out about this via a coworker of mine who flew a TAROM 707 into Ben Gurion in the early 1980s.

16. Air France was the launch customer of the A300. What was the second airline to fly the A300?

I'll offer an obscure Thailand carrier called Varan Air Siam. Airbus were desperate for orders for the first A300s, and did a lease deal for one aircraft with this carrier, they got it a few months after the first Air France one was delivered, in 1974. They went out of business about 12 months later, and Airbus got the aircraft back.

Right on, WHBM! Excellent recall as Air Siam was about as obscure as they come. I don't think they lasted more than a couple of years. And what a diverse fleet!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:A..._Volpati-2.jpg
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Old Jan 27, 2014, 2:16 pm
  #4163  
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Originally Posted by Seat 2A
... 4. These two foreign carriers enjoyed fifth freedom rights on the Chicago – Montreal route.
Originally Posted by JoeDTW
... Air France is the obvious answer. I think the other airline was Swissair. ...
Originally Posted by Seat 2A
Quite a few different airlines have enjoyed Fifth Freedom rights on this route. You've got one of them right. Per the schedule I was using, the other one was not Swissair. But here's a hint: The airlines' name ends in "A"
a couple weeks ago we were talking about US-Canada 747 service in the 1988 timeframe, and one of the answers (see post 4017) was Sabena serving Chicago <-> Montreal ... however I am more inclined to again go with Lufthansa
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Old Jan 27, 2014, 2:16 pm
  #4164  
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Originally Posted by Icecat

6. Which airline has a winged mountain goat, the flying mouflon, as its logo?

That would be Cyprus Airways, an airline that I have not flown.

Nice to see you back, Icecat, all the more so with the correct answer.

I'll soon be riding aboard a train whose railroad (long since gone though the train name and route survive) was also famous for a mountain goat on its logo.
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Old Jan 27, 2014, 2:20 pm
  #4165  
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Great Northern ... the Empire Builder from Seattle (connecting service from Portland, in Spokane) across the Rockies, Montana, and the upper Great Plains to Chicago
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Old Jan 27, 2014, 2:38 pm
  #4166  
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Originally Posted by jrl22
1. This was the only airline serving Westchester County Airport in White Plains, NY. It operated 8 flights on weekdays.


in Feb 1972, MO was indeed operating these services as can be seen here

http://www.departedflights.com/MO020172p14.html

which makes me suspect your OAG was from later in the year, and reflects that MO had been absorbed into Allegheny ... AL quickly parked the FH7s in favor of their larger Convair 580s, and began integrating the One-Elevens into their operations along with the DC9-30s that had been the backbone of their fleet.

It's hard to keep a good man down! You are spot on, jrl22! In May of 1972, I remember going down to the Westchester County Airport to see a BAC-111 that was now in the schedules. The merger between MO and AL was recent enough that the aircraft wore Mohawk's livery with a small sticker indicating it was operated by Allegheny.

4. In 1972, these two foreign carriers enjoyed fifth freedom rights on the Chicago – Montreal route.

a couple weeks ago we were talking about US-Canada 747 service in the 1988 timeframe, and one of the answers (see post 4017) was Sabena serving Chicago <-> Montreal ... however I am more inclined to again go with Lufthansa

As with the above referenced question, the other airline flying this route besides the obvious choice may well have been unique to that particular month. To be sure, I would never have guessed it initially. However, it was not Lufthansa and even though Sabena has operated on this route, it was not Sabena either. Hmm.... The airline ends in "A"...

Last edited by Seat 2A; Jan 27, 2014 at 2:45 pm
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Old Jan 27, 2014, 5:06 pm
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Tarom of Romania. El Al also operated into Bucharest in return as well.

Spot on! I found out about this via a coworker of mine who flew a TAROM 707 into Ben Gurion in the early 1980s
Tarom had a widespread fleet, both Soviet and Western types, in addition the final One-Elevens were assembled in Romania at a large plant which seemed to manage an average of one aircraft per year throughout the 1980s. They had further One-Elevens which had been built in the UK.

They operated various operations into the UK at this time, you never knew what type was going to turn up, it varied from flight to flight. Their main service from Bucharest to London Heathrow operated a few times a week, generally through other points like Brussels, and it would be a One-Eleven (as scheduled) one time, next a Tupolev 154, next a 707, and so on. They also operated summer holiday flights from Constanta on the Black Sea coast to Gatwick, Manchester, Glasgow, etc, typically at weekends, which could be anything, and at the start/end of the season might actually be an Ilyushin 18 turboprop, well into the 1980s. Then any large group, which seemed to be one of the few ways for regular Romanian citizens got to Britain, like seamen for a ship crew change, or some oddball entertainment group, would often get a charter flight of their own, the sailors going to the nearest point to their ship, which would bring them in to secondary airports like Liverpool.

Quick supplementary bonus question. Which major European airline started their jet operations with a fleet of One-Elevens leased from Tarom ?
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Old Jan 27, 2014, 8:55 pm
  #4168  
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Originally Posted by WHBM

Quick supplementary bonus question. Which major European airline started their jet operations with a fleet of One-Elevens leased from Tarom ?
Well, my first thought here was race driver Niki Lauda's airline, Lauda Air. I believe Lauda Air leased several stretched BAC One-Eleven series 500 from Tarom back in the mid 80's.

But then, I thought, can Lauda Air really be thought of as a "major" European air carrier even though it operated Boeing 777 equipment at one point? And, BTW, Mr. Lauda actually flew as the pilot in command of the triple 7 on occasion on scheduled flights for Lauda Air....

The answer is most likely, no: Lauda Air was not a major European airline.

However, Ryanair certainly is these days and back when they were just getting started, I believe they operated BAC One-Eleven series 500 aircraft leased from Tarom.
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Old Jan 28, 2014, 2:46 am
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Quite so, JL, it was Ryanair, mainly on routes from Ireland to the UK. Ryanair started with small turboprops on minor routes, and lost money, but a combination of relaxed regulations and the ready availability of the Tarom One-Elevens at cheap lease rates gave them a real kick.

From still-restricted Romania the chance of work based in "the west" was tremendously sought after, and a number of the pilots who came over with them were the high-experience test pilots from that One-Eleven factory project. Unfortunately their English language skills didn't quite match, and they were prohibited by Ryanair from making routine cabin PAs - these were done by the (Irish-based, Ryanair employed) flight attendants except for emergencies. Pity the poor ATC who had to deal with them ! Notably, the tradition of the pilots not making announcements themselves somewhat continues on Ryanair.

But then, I thought, can Lauda Air really be thought of as a "major" European air carrier
Lauda Air has been and gone as a carrier, it consistently lost money and in the end was subsumed gradually into Austrian Airlines. Onetime racing champion Niki Lauda was unhappy at losing his airline, and his own brand name, and started his own replacement operation, Niki, with a fresh jet fleet, which again struggled financially and eventually was bought out by Air Berlin. I don't think he's going to try again.
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Old Jan 28, 2014, 8:57 am
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Two other European airlines whose names end in "A" come to mind: IberiA and AlitaliA. I don't think IB served Chicago until the 1980s, so I will go with AlitaliA.

It's interesting that for many years, Chicago-Montreal was one of the few routes from the US where you could choose a Canadian airline (AC), multiple fifth freedom airlines, but no US carrier. Not until 1977 was a US carrier (AA) given rights for ORD-YUL.
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