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Old Timer's Airline Quiz and Discussion.

Old Timer's Airline Quiz and Discussion.

Old Dec 3, 2013, 9:10 am
  #3826  
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Originally Posted by Seat 2A

20. How did the Convair 240 get its name? i.e. What did the “240” represent?

26. What was Pacific Western Airlines’ only international route?
20. Wild guess time.....the "2" indicated a twin engine aircraft and the "40" indicated the standard passenger configuration for the CV-240 was 40 seats.

26. Seattle (SEA) with nonstop flights to Victoria (YYJ) and continuing service to Vancouver (YVR) and v.v. I believe Pacific Western flew this route at one point with B737-200 equipment and may have operated the Convair 640 as well YVR-YYJ-SEA.
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Old Dec 3, 2013, 3:02 pm
  #3827  
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Originally Posted by WHBM
3. SAS operated one stop DC-8 service between Copenhagen and Los Angeles. Where did that flight make an enroute stop?

Ah, then I will offer Sondrestromfjord (nowadays Kangerlussuaq*) in Greenland. The SAS DC8-30s couldn't make the west coast nonstop. I was guessing that by 1966 they had more capable models in stock, but apparently not.

You are spot on, WHBM. I've no doubt you had Kangerlussuaq on the tip of your tongue but somehow your fingers said Seattle first! I did a check of the SAS fleet and saw that they took delivery of some DC-8-55s starting in 1965. So the range was there, but this article suggests that SAS didn't commence service to Seattle until 1967.

Last edited by Seat 2A; Dec 3, 2013 at 3:07 pm
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Old Dec 3, 2013, 3:23 pm
  #3828  
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20. How did the Convair 240 get its name? i.e. What did the “240” represent?

jrl22: Service ceiling of 24000 ft (FL240)? It was pressurized, so this might not be unreasonable; however that logic falls apart for the later variants (CV-340 and CV-440)

jlemon: Wild guess time.....the "2" indicated a twin engine aircraft and the "40" indicated the standard passenger configuration for the CV-240 was 40 seats.

And the winner is: jlemon! Your wild guess answer sums it up most concisely. 2 engines, 40 passengers.

What was Pacific Western Airlines’ only international route?

jlemon: Seattle (SEA) with nonstop flights to Victoria (YYJ) and continuing service to Vancouver (YVR) and v.v. I believe Pacific Western flew this route at one point with B737-200 equipment and may have operated the Convair 640 as well YVR-YYJ-SEA.

Correct! In the 1970 schedule I reference, all services are with the Convair. My sole flight on PW came in 1979 aboard a 737-200 between Vancouver and Seattle.
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Old Dec 3, 2013, 3:33 pm
  #3829  
 
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Convair 240 "claim to fame" in politics.
This aircraft carried John F. Kennedy around the country during his campaign for becoming President.

I did some "digging" to see if the above was correct, and found out that Joseph Kennedy bought the aircraft from American in 1959, and it was called "Caroline".
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Old Dec 3, 2013, 3:37 pm
  #3830  
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it currently resides in the Air Force Museum at Wright-Patterson AFB, outside Dayton OH
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Old Dec 3, 2013, 8:02 pm
  #3831  
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Originally Posted by Seat 2A

22. Name the seven U.S. airlines that flew between the U.S. and Mexico
Ah, U.S. airline service to colorful, carefree Mexico in 1970....

I'll guess the seven U.S. air carriers were:

1) Air West / Hughes Airwest (RW) - I think the name change occurred in 1970.....

2) American (AA)

3) Braniff International (BN)

4) Eastern (EA)

5) Pan Am (PA)

6) Texas International (TI) - or maybe they were still using the TT two letter code.....and this was the only airline of the seven that was flying turboprop equipment on their service into Mexico with the Convair 600 to Tampico and Veracruz from Harlingen and Houston, although I believe TI may have also been flying DC9 aircraft into Monterrey from McAllen and Houston at this same time.

And last but most certainly not least......

7) Western (WA)

Last edited by jlemon; Dec 3, 2013 at 8:07 pm
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Old Dec 3, 2013, 8:25 pm
  #3832  
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Originally Posted by jlemon
22. Name the seven U.S. airlines that flew between the U.S. and Mexico

Ah, U.S. airline service to colorful, carefree Mexico in 1970....
Boy, it sure was that! We drove down to Mexico in the summer of 1967 and rented a house. What a wonderful place - back then. I spent four months living in Oaxaca back in 1975. Great place and the exchange rate was a steady 12.5 pesos to the dollar every day. I enjoyed Western's "Fiesta Service" on my DC-10 flight back to the states.

I'll guess the seven U.S. air carriers were:

1) Hughes Airwest (RW)
2) American (AA)
3) Braniff International (BN)
4) Eastern (EA)
5) Pan Am (PA)
6) Texas International (TT)
7) Western (WA)

Last edited by Seat 2A; Dec 3, 2013 at 8:32 pm
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Old Dec 4, 2013, 1:07 pm
  #3833  
 
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I have read somewhere that the Rolls Royce powered 707-420 series was offered as an inducement to get BOAC to buy the 707 (WHBM - any insight on this..?) I believe the Rolls Royce Conways were - early on at least - more powerful than the early Pratt & Whitneys being offered otherwise. The later turbofan JT3Ds were up in the 18000 lb thrust range, but the Conways weren't far behind and I think the ones that powered the VC10 were over 19000 lb thrust.
The Conway 43s in the Super VC-10 were 21,800 lb thrust, well above what was ever offered on the 707.

Regarding the Rolls-Royce 707s, BOAC were fairly well sold on this engine choice, and both Boeing and Douglas (the latter of course never sold a DC8 to the UK) liked having the Rolls engine option on the 707/DC8 to keep P&W under control from having a monopoly. What was the real issue was the UK government giving permission for BOAC to have 707s at all. There was immense "dollar spending" paranoia in the UK in the 1950s, and the government, which had invested large sums in many home-grown aircraft programmes, just couldn't understand how just about the whole lot (the Viscount being a notable exception) were pretty useless, especially the long-haul types. Tudor, Hermes, Comet and Britannia all had calamitous service records, the only worthwhile type in the entire BOAC fleet in 1956 (when the 707s were ordered) was the Canadian-built Canadair Argonauts. The fact that the 707 could have Rolls-Royce engines was however a sweetener which eventually tipped the balance, but BOAC were told the 707s were only for the "competitive" North Atlantic routes, and not for elsewhere, and a minimum number only. Later rescinded, of course.

This dollar spending issue was such that when the BOAC DC-7Cs were being ordered shortly before the 707s, as a stopgap to all these issues, it was seriously considered ordering them as the little-known DC-7D with Rolls-Royce Tyne turboprops. It was only when Rolls were honest enough to say the Tyne would not be ready until the big jets came along that it was agreed not to insist BOAC took it. In the end the thundering, vibrating Tyne was even later than that.
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Old Dec 4, 2013, 2:22 pm
  #3834  
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Originally Posted by jlemon
Ah, U.S. airline service to colorful, carefree Mexico in 1970....

6) Texas International (TI) - or maybe they were still using the TT two letter code.....and this was the only airline of the seven that was flying turboprop equipment on their service into Mexico with the Convair 600 to Tampico and Veracruz from Harlingen and Houston, although I believe TI may have also been flying DC9 aircraft into Monterrey from McAllen and Houston at this same time.
I'll divert off topic for just a few moments here.....

One does not normally associate the land areas adjoining the Gulf of Mexico with mountains, especially not in the U.S. From Texas to Louisiana to Florida, the Gulf Coast area is essentially flat with no geographical relief. The exception to this are certain areas in Mexico with Veracruz being a prime example. Just 70 miles west of the tropical Port of Veracruz on the Gulf of Mexico lies a very tall mountain indeed: Pico de Orizaba. And with a summit elevation of 18,491 feet, it is the third highest peak in North America after Mt. McKinley (Denali) in Alaska and Mt. Logan in the Canadian Yukon. Approaching Veracruz from the north by aircraft on a clear day, one cannot miss this massive volcano which actually has glaciers near its summit. In fact, the rising sun illuminates Pico de Orizaba before dawn breaks in Veracruz.

And now back to the OTA&AQ......
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Old Dec 5, 2013, 10:41 am
  #3835  
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Originally Posted by Seat 2A

29. Although only three Canadian airlines served the U.S. in 1970, nine U.S. airlines served Canada. Identify the nine U.S. airlines.
Now that we've taken care of old Mexico, let's turn our attention north to our good friends in Canada.....

I'll guess the nine U.S. air carriers serving Canada in 1970 were:

1) Allegheny (AL)

2) American (AA)

3) Eastern (EA)

4) Hughes Airwest (RW)

5) North Central (NC)

6) Northeast (NE)

7) Northwest (NW)

8) United (UA)

9) Western (WA)

I thought that Pilgrim Airlines (PM) might also be on this list; however, PM may not have served any Canadian destinations in 1970 although they subsequently did.....but I'm not sure if they did so in 1970.
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Old Dec 6, 2013, 6:30 am
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...... questions are based upon schedules published in a 1966 International OAG

.................

4. Name the seven airlines that operated scheduled Comet service to/from London Heathrow.
Going to sneak another one in.

There would be lots of BOAC Comets around on the ground, but none left on schedules, as the last BOAC Comet service was at the end of 1965. They didn't last for long because the first one only operated 7 years earlier. So, we have

BEA - plenty of them, including they had just started using them on London-Glasgow, the first UK domestic jet service, deliberately to spike British United about to start One-Eleven services. BEA also operated services marked as Cyprus Airways, who didn't have their own fleet then but put their CY flight numbers on BEA operations.

Olympic, to Athens. Actually managed by BEA, the two fleets were operated as an integrated unit, and some aircraft moved backwards and forwards between them over time, including Olympic aircraft with UK registrations.

East African, including a number of ex-BOAC ones.

Kuwait Airways, strangely not based in Kuwait at the time but in Beirut (one of my current office colleagues, his father was a KU flight engineer on Comets and they lived in Beirut).

MEA, the proper airline from Beirut.

United Arab (or were they trading as Egyptair by this time), from Cairo.

Sudan Airways, from Khartoum. The area was a hotbed of Comet operators.

Maybe Aerolineas Argentinas. I think they changed over to 707s on the London run during 1966.

I could look it all up for definitive dates but the Comet book is, as ever, up in the attic !
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Old Dec 7, 2013, 1:39 pm
  #3837  
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Originally Posted by Seat 2A

18. This aircraft’s prototype was known as the “367-80”. What was this aircraft better known as?
I am surprised that no one has attempted to answer this so I'll take a shot at it....

18. The Boeing 367 dash 80 was the prototype aircraft that led to the development of the Boeing 707. And with this airplane, Boeing was poised to enter the commercial jet age in a major way and also with quite a bit of risk as the company had no firm orders at the time for what would become the iconic 707.

Only one 367-80 was built. The aircraft was rolled out 59 years ago in 1954. It currently resides at the Steven F. Udvar-Hazy Smithsonian National Air & Space Museum annex which is located at Washington Dulles Airport (IAD). I hope to visit this museum in the near future.

The 367-80 was featured at the 1955 Seafair in Seattle where it performed a flyby for aviation and airline industry personnel. Test pilot Alvin "Tex" Johnston actually performed two barrel rolls during which the aircraft was momentarily inverted. Boeing President Bill Allen was not amused by these barrel rolls and told Tex Johnston to never do anything like that again. And years later, I believe Boeing President Phil Condit told a couple of Boeing 777-200 test pilots the same thing before its maiden flight: "No rolls!"

Last edited by jlemon; Dec 7, 2013 at 2:01 pm Reason: additional info & date correction.....
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Old Dec 7, 2013, 3:15 pm
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Originally Posted by jlemon
Boeing President Phil Condit told a couple of Boeing 777-200 test pilots the same thing before its maiden flight: "No rolls!"
Doubtless said with a grin - Phil Condit was no mean aerobatics pilot himself and had his own aerobatic-capable aircraft.

Shame he didn't also say "and don't put the wonderfully-restored Boeing 307 down into Lake Elliott either" - it was the 777 test pilot Nelson who was flying the 307 when it went into the water in Seattle.

If you've never seen Tex and the 707 barrel-roll, it's here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AaA7kPfC5Hk
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Old Dec 7, 2013, 3:53 pm
  #3839  
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Originally Posted by WHBM
Doubtless said with a grin - Phil Condit was no mean aerobatics pilot himself and had his own aerobatic-capable aircraft.
I believe you're thinking of former Boeing chief pilot Lew Wallick, who kept hus P-12 in a hangar at BFI and flew it regularly around the Puget Sound area

as a former Boeing Flight Test engineer (Test Director on the #4 767-200), I refrained from answering the Dash 80 softball
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Old Dec 7, 2013, 4:25 pm
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Originally Posted by jrl22
I believe you're thinking of former Boeing chief pilot Lew Wallick
Actually I was thinking of Phil himself; he got his Private Pilots Licence at age 18 and his Masters in Aeronautical Engineering just a few years later. I believe he still flies.
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