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Old Timer's Airline Quiz and Discussion.

Old Timer's Airline Quiz and Discussion.

Old Nov 27, 2013, 2:52 pm
  #3781  
 
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Originally Posted by cs57
It is 1983, and you are in Jersey, Channel Islands (UK) and you need to get to Edinburgh on a Saturday.
Oh dear .......
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Old Nov 27, 2013, 2:56 pm
  #3782  
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Originally Posted by WHBM
Oh dear .......
WHBM, I hesitate to think the airline in question was actually named "Oh dear"......
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Old Nov 28, 2013, 4:03 pm
  #3783  
 
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Originally Posted by Seat 2A
TWA leased four 720-051Bs for a short time back in the early 1960s. I believe (though I'm not sure) that these aircraft were delivered to TWA direct from Boeing. If I'm not mistaken, they represented the first turbofan powered aircraft that TWA operated until the arrival of its 707-131Bs later on. TWA later "returned" the aircraft to Northwest Orient where they soldiered on as red tails for many more years.
All correct. They served with Northwest until the early 1970s, when three of them were sold to Monarch Airlines in the UK, and served for many years into the mid-80s on a range of holiday flights from London Luton down to the Mediterranean and similar points. During the summer peak they would typically, every day, make a 9 am departure down to The Med and back (Palma being the No 1 destination), then another round trip leaving at about 4 pm, and finally a third 'night flight' at around 11 pm, getting back home around 5 am, couple of hours servicing, then into another day. When replaced by new 757s they finally headed home to Tucson AZ, where they were broken up for parts.
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Old Nov 30, 2013, 9:39 am
  #3784  
 
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Originally Posted by cs57
Happy Thanksgiving to all! I continue to be amazed at the vast civil aviation knowledge held by the people that post on this thread!

It is 1983, and you are in Jersey, Channel Islands (UK) and you need to get to Edinburgh on a Saturday. What airline will take you to EDI nonstop?
And a Happy Thanksgiving to you too.
No, it wasn't "Oh dear" airlines, it was Inter City Airlines (QT) with a Shorts 300. I freely admit I actually found a relevant old schedule -- but I have to get one right once in awhile! I suspect WHBM was ready to give the correct answer without resorting to schedules.
You have to make allowances for those of us who are not in the aviation business, but mere pax, with poor records from the early days. That said, I really enjoy the aviation education I'm getting from this forum.

Last edited by miniliq; Nov 30, 2013 at 10:46 am
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Old Nov 30, 2013, 10:57 am
  #3785  
 
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Originally Posted by WHBM
All correct. They served with Northwest until the early 1970s, when three of them were sold to Monarch Airlines in the UK, and served for many years into the mid-80s on a range of holiday flights from London Luton down to the Mediterranean and similar points. During the summer peak they would typically, every day, make a 9 am departure down to The Med and back (Palma being the No 1 destination), then another round trip leaving at about 4 pm, and finally a third 'night flight' at around 11 pm, getting back home around 5 am, couple of hours servicing, then into another day. When replaced by new 757s they finally headed home to Tucson AZ, where they were broken up for parts.

In August of 1980, I took my family on a one-week holiday on a mid-day non-stop from from Luton (LTN) to Lanzarote (airport Arrecife ACE) -- it was either Dan Air or Monarch but my memory and records fail me -- it sure could have been one of the 720s. A few months later we also did a long weekend run LTN to Palma (PMI), ditto on the airlines and equipment.
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Old Nov 30, 2013, 11:02 am
  #3786  
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Originally Posted by miniliq
And a Happy Thanksgiving to you too.
No, it wasn't "Oh dear" airlines, it was Inter City Airlines (QT) with a Shorts 300. I freely admit I actually found a relevant old schedule -- but I have to get one right once in awhile! I suspect WHBM was ready to give the correct answer without resorting to schedules.
You have to make allowances for those of us who are not in the aviation business, but mere pax, with poor records from the early days. That said, I really enjoy the aviation education I'm getting from this forum.
miniliq: Short 330 or 360?

And how about those LSU Tigers?! Wow!!! ^

Weather report: three frosts in a row the past three mornings here in the LFT area with temps as low as the mid 20's F. And it's not even winter yet.......however, we should see temps in the mid 60's F this afternoon just in time for a bit of yardwork......
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Old Nov 30, 2013, 11:33 am
  #3787  
 
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Originally Posted by jlemon
miniliq: Short 330 or 360?

And how about those LSU Tigers?! Wow!!! ^

Weather report: three frosts in a row the past three mornings here in the LFT area with temps as low as the mid 20's F. And it's not even winter yet.......however, we should see temps in the mid 60's F this afternoon just in time for a bit of yardwork......
SH 330
The frost killed the few remaining blooms we have -- now I have a ton of pine straw to rake..
But on a cheery note, the backup quarterback sure saved the day for LSU -- and now my son and family want tickets to the Cotton Bowl game as Christmas gifts -- I plead imminent poverty.
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Old Nov 30, 2013, 3:30 pm
  #3788  
 
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Originally Posted by jlemon
WHBM, I hesitate to think the airline in question was actually named "Oh dear"......
It's not the airline name, but the "Jersey, Channel Islands (UK)" bit, because I regret to inform the team that not only are the Channel Islands decidedly not in the UK, but it is a cause of some political dismay whenever they are referred to as such.

To put it in a US context, it's like saying that Puerto Rico is a US State. The islands are an independent territory that the UK very kindly looks after for certain aspects (including aviation). But they have their own government, and set their own taxes etc. In particular there is no VAT at all. Because of all this, and also the fact that their inhabitants are regarded as British citizens, although with certain special conditions, it means that when arriving at a UK airport from there by air you do not need to go through immigration but you DO have to go through customs. All UK airports which have services from the Channel Islands (which is all the major ones) have special corridors for such arrivals, skipping passport control but then routing them through customs. You will often see signage "arrivals from the Channel Islands" at UK airports.

Right, then. About the airline in question, where do I start. Well I am guessing (because the relevant stuff is up in the attic, courtesy of the arrival of Little Miss WHBM - I don't mind at all, honest !) that in 1983 the Edinburgh-Jersey route only operated at summer weekends, and it depends when the timetable is dated, because Inter City Airlines went bankrupt on 1 August 1983 which will have upset many holiday arrangements not a little. The route used to be BA, with Viscounts, who gave it up in 1980 along with many other thin domestic routes, and scrapped much of their Viscount fleet of the time. It was picked up by Air UK, running it with Fokker Friendships. After a couple of years they found out what BA knew all along, and gave it up as well.

Inter City Airlines was long known as Alidair, a quiet sizeable short-distance charter operator, who built up a big Viscount 700 fleet, and then the Shorts 330s and 360s. In 1981 they rebadged as Inter City Airlines, and picked up various minor routes. Financially it didn't last, and they went under.

There was the usual rallying round organised by the CAA when this happens (there's a long history of UK holiday-oriented airlines going bankrupt in high season !), and my memory is that British Midland may have been asked to take over for the rest of the year. They were always strong on Glasgow-Jersey.

cs57, what was the duration of the SD330 flight ? The Friendship took 2 hours and the "Shed", as they were universally known over here, was somewhat slower.
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Old Nov 30, 2013, 4:19 pm
  #3789  
 
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The schedule I found for Inter City (QT) 594 was departure from Jersey at 11:15am/arrive EDI at 1:15pm SAT only. The return flight (#593) left EDI at 1:45pm/arrive Jersey at 3:45pm (also SAT only).
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Old Nov 30, 2013, 4:43 pm
  #3790  
 
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Originally Posted by WHBM
It's not the airline name, but the "Jersey, Channel Islands (UK)" bit, because I regret to inform the team that not only are the Channel Islands decidedly not in the UK, but it is a cause of some political dismay whenever they are referred to as such.

To put it in a US context, it's like saying that Puerto Rico is a US State. The islands are an independent territory that the UK very kindly looks after for certain aspects (including aviation). But they have their own government, and set their own taxes etc. In particular there is no VAT at all. Because of all this, and also the fact that their inhabitants are regarded as British citizens, although with certain special conditions, it means that when arriving at a UK airport from there by air you do not need to go through immigration but you DO have to go through customs. All UK airports which have services from the Channel Islands (which is all the major ones) have special corridors for such arrivals, skipping passport control but then routing them through customs. You will often see signage "arrivals from the Channel Islands" at UK airports.

Right, then. About the airline in question, where do I start. Well I am guessing (because the relevant stuff is up in the attic, courtesy of the arrival of Little Miss WHBM - I don't mind at all, honest !) that in 1983 the Edinburgh-Jersey route only operated at summer weekends, and it depends when the timetable is dated, because Inter City Airlines went bankrupt on 1 August 1983 which will have upset many holiday arrangements not a little. The route used to be BA, with Viscounts, who gave it up in 1980 along with many other thin domestic routes, and scrapped much of their Viscount fleet of the time. It was picked up by Air UK, running it with Fokker Friendships. After a couple of years they found out what BA knew all along, and gave it up as well.

Inter City Airlines was long known as Alidair, a quiet sizeable short-distance charter operator, who built up a big Viscount 700 fleet, and then the Shorts 330s and 360s. In 1981 they rebadged as Inter City Airlines, and picked up various minor routes. Financially it didn't last, and they went under.

There was the usual rallying round organised by the CAA when this happens (there's a long history of UK holiday-oriented airlines going bankrupt in high season !), and my memory is that British Midland may have been asked to take over for the rest of the year. They were always strong on Glasgow-Jersey.
Thanks for the Jersey/UK distinction.

And to confirm and add a bit to your great history lesson,
I found the following contribution on a mad-air forum: http://www.plane-mad.com/forums/aber...tyalidair.html

"Alidair was formed 1972 based at East Midlands to operate charters with Viscount 700's. Subsidiary, Alidair Scotland followed shortly after with the Shell contract to provide 3 Viscount 700's for ABZ - LSI. Guernsey Airlines was another subsidiary of Alidair, formed in 1978 using a single Viscount 700 . In 1979 British Airways dropped many Channel Islands routes and Guernsey applied for the right to fly a range of services from Guernsey to the mainland but only won one, to Manchester. This was operated with the Viscount. In 1981, Alidair was renamed Inter City Airlines and Guernsey AL gained approval for Guernsey - Cambridge and Staverton flights and sub-leased a Shorts 330 from the parent company. In 1982 Guernsey gained the Guernsey - Gatwick route which was also flown by Shorts 330. (IIRC the two 330's were G-BITV and TX). Somewhen in here, an EMA - ABZ route was operated, also by 330's.

Parent Inter City AL went into receivership on 1 August 1983 (and never returned) but shortly before the end, Guernsey Airlines was sold to Jadepoint, parent of British Air Ferries. Following the demise of IC, BAF picked up the Shell contract at Aberdeen and replaced the Viscount 700's with their own -800's."

This is beginning to make my head spin.
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Old Nov 30, 2013, 6:02 pm
  #3791  
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Originally Posted by jlemon
... In 1969, this airline was operating direct, no change of plane service from Seattle to Kotzebue in Alaska. Seven (7) intermediate stops were made en route on this particular flight which operated five days a week. The aircraft was configured with a single class, all coach cabin.

Identify the airline, the equipment flown on the route and all seven intermediate stops in the order in which they were made.
the airline could be either Alaska or Wien, and I'd lean toward AS; either way, the equipment was in all likelihood a 737-200 (perhaps a Combi)

I will toss out a routing of SEA-KTN-SIT-JNU-CDV-ANC-AKN-OME-OTZ, but there are a number of permutations in the current AS timetable that could have been in existence then ... the most significant being that the jets on the Inside Passage runs (KTN-SIT-JNU and KTN-WRG-PSB-JNU) go nonstop JNU-ANC, and the JNU-CDV-ANC flight begins with a nonstop SEA-JNU leg

for the record, above is again off the top of my head w no use of Internet resources like Airchive.com or departedflights.com
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Old Dec 1, 2013, 12:17 am
  #3792  
 
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BAC-111

Originally Posted by Wally Bird
Without recourse to google etc., here's what I got:

1. What airline launched 707 service within the U.S.?
Got it. Hint: not Panam
2. What airline flew The Great Silver Fleet?
Got it
3. Name six US airlines that flew the Boeing 720
Got 5
4. Which airline was the launch customer for the 727?
Got it
5. What year did the 747 enter service?
Got it
6. Everyone knows AA, NW, PA, UA & TW flew the 747. Name five other non-cargo US airlines that also did
Got it
7. What airline’s ads proclaimed it to be “The Only Way To Fly”?
Got it. Hint: see username
8. Name three US airlines that flew the 737-100
Got 2
9. What three airlines merged to form Republic Airlines in 1979?
Got it
10. What airline’s 727s and DC-9s were known as “Yellowbirds”?
Got it
11. What airline’s airport lounges were known as Ionosphere Clubs?
Got it
12. What was the only US airline to offer scheduled air service with the French built Caravelle?
Got it
13. What airline offered Ambassador Service on its long distance flights in First Class?
Got it
14. What airline’s jets were called “Pacemakers”?
Got it
15. Name three US airlines that flew the British built BAC-111?
Got it
16. Name four more US airlines that flew the BAC-111
Got it, although they were mostly the same airplanes as 15
17. What airline offered “Royal Hawaiian Service” on its Hawaii flights?
No idea, I'd have to guess
18. What airline offered piano lounges on its 747s?
Got it. I sat in one
19. What year did the 767 enter service? Who was the launch customer?
Got it, got it
20. Name six U.S. airlines that flew the Lockheed Electra
Got it
21. What airline was the launch customer for the Boeing 727-200?
A guess
22. Name five US airlines that flew the Lockheed L-1011
Got it
23. What airline’s premium service was known as “Regal Imperial Service”?
No idea
24. Name two U.S. airlines that operated the DC-10, 747 and L-1011 and A310
Got it
25. What airline currently operates the world’s largest fleet of MD-80s?
Got it
26. Name 5 U.S. airlines that flew the Airbus A300
Got 4 not counting FX and UP
27. What airline’s 727s and DC-9s were known as “Whisperjets”?
Got it
28. Name three US airlines that flew the Convair 990
Got 2 excluding 'travel clubs'
29. What North American airline operated the Comet
There were 2
30. What airline's jets were once known as Astrojets?
Got it
31. What three airlines merged in 1968 to form Air West?
Got it
32. Name seven U.S. airlines that flew the standard DC-8 (Series 10-50)
Got it
33. Name three U.S. airlines that flew the DC-8-62
Got it if you include non-sched
34. What airline was famous for “Islander Punch” served from the trolley in a steaming volcano?
Got it
35. What major U.S. airline has not changed its livery since 1970?
Got it
36. Which airlines’ DC-9s were known as “Pamper Jets”?
Oooh I know I know this
37. What type of jet did Bonanza Airlines fly?
Got it
38. Which Hawaiian based airline operated the Fokker F-28 jet?
No idea
39. Name four airlines named for U.S. cities that operate or operated jet aircraft
Do airports count ?
40. Name five airlines named for U.S. states that operate or operated jet aircraft
Got it, although one is the same as in 39
41. What airline flew from LAX and LAS to JFK with luxurious, all First Class DC-8-62s
Got it
42. Name four U.S. airlines that offered scheduled service with Convair 880s
Got it
43. Name four airlines that flew Boeing 720s between the Continental US and Alaska
Got 3,4 if Aeroamerica qualifies as an 'airline'
44. What airline operated coach lounges called “Polynesian Pubs” aboard its DC-10s?
Got it
45. What airline’s 707s were known as “El Dorado Jets”?
Got it
46. What airline’s employees bought their airline a new 767-200?
Got it - "Spirit of xxxxx"
47. What airline’s DC-10s were called “Spaceships”?
Got it
48. Name five major US airlines that operated the DC-9-10
Got it
49. Name ten regional airlines that operated the DC-9-10
Only 8
50. Which US airline operated the DC-10-40?
Got it
51. What airline flew DC-9s into Page, Arizona?
Got it - dum diddy diddy dum
52. What airline flew 737s into Sheridan, Wyoming?
Got it
53. What airline flew 707s into Billings, Montana?
Guess
54. What airline flew DC-9s into Waterloo, Iowa?
Got it
55. What airline flew Convair 580s into Durango, Colorado?
Got it
56. What airline flew 720Bs into Sioux Falls, SD?
Got it - been there
57. What airline flew BAC-111s into White Plains, New York in 1970?
Got it
58. What airline flew Convair 880s between Denver and New York?
Hmmm ?
59. What airline flew DC-8-62s nonstop between New York and Honolulu?
Got it
60. What airline offered its First Class customers “Gold Coast Service” on West Coast routes?
Got it - and very nice it was too
61. What airline opened the industry’s first VIP lounge at LaGuardia in 1939?
Have to guess
62. The Sun King logo is associated with what airline?
Got it
63. Aside from 737s, what other type of aircraft did Southwest once operate?
Got it, there were 2
64. What was the name of the mallard duck on the tail of North Central Airlines aircraft
Got it
65. What two U.S. airlines operated both the Convair 880 and 990?
Got 1
66. What U.S. airline operated "Executive Special" flights for men only between Chicago and New York?
Got it - see 12
67. What U.S. airline operated a fleet of L-1011s with a downstairs lounge?
Got it
68. What U.S. airline named its jets after Clippers (as in Clipper Mayflower)
Got it
69. What U.S. airline inaugurated Concorde flights within the U.S. on January 12, 1979?
Got it
70. What three U.S. airlines operated L-1011s between the U.S. mainland and Hawaii?
Got it
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Old Dec 1, 2013, 12:21 am
  #3793  
 
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#16....
You missed Cascade Airways, based at GEG, flew two -200s and two-400s [ex=AA] in the early to mid-80s. I know. I worked there.
Dan
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Old Dec 1, 2013, 9:38 am
  #3794  
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Originally Posted by jrl22
the airline could be either Alaska or Wien, and I'd lean toward AS; either way, the equipment was in all likelihood a 737-200 (perhaps a Combi)

I will toss out a routing of SEA-KTN-SIT-JNU-CDV-ANC-AKN-OME-OTZ, but there are a number of permutations in the current AS timetable that could have been in existence then ... the most significant being that the jets on the Inside Passage runs (KTN-SIT-JNU and KTN-WRG-PSB-JNU) go nonstop JNU-ANC, and the JNU-CDV-ANC flight begins with a nonstop SEA-JNU leg

for the record, above is again off the top of my head w no use of Internet resources like Airchive.com or departedflights.com
An excellent guess as Alaska Airlines is correct although the routing (Ketchikan and King Salmon were not served by this flight but Unalakleet and Yakutat were) and the equipment were different. Here's the sched.....

AS 1867: SEA-SIT-JNU-YAK-CDV-ANC-UNK-OME-OTZ
Op: Daily except Sat. and Sun. (AS 1867 operated on the same routing on Sat. and Sun. with the exception of the stop at Unalakleet (UNK) which was not made on those days)
Equip: 727 (all Y class config)

What is not clear is whether this B727-100 was operated as a combi service. I suspect it might have been; however, the AS timetable makes no mention of this......any intel, anyone?

This also appears to be one of the few times Alaska Air provided direct, no change of plane service between SEA and UNK/OME/OTZ.......

Last edited by jlemon; Dec 1, 2013 at 11:40 am Reason: additional info.....
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Old Dec 1, 2013, 11:07 am
  #3795  
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I'm reasonably sure AS 727 all-Y operations were indeed with the QC variant
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