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Old Timer's Airline Quiz and Discussion.

Old Timer's Airline Quiz and Discussion.

Old Nov 26, 2013, 10:55 am
  #3766  
 
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Originally Posted by jrl22
Pan Am's customer designator was -21; -30 is Lufthansa ... were those jets original LH orders that were ultimately delivered to (or taken up by) PA?
Sort of, they were originally delivered to Lufthansa in 1961-62, and used on surprisingly lengthy routes, such as Frankfurt to South America, South Africa, and Japan, all via plenty of intermediate points of course. They were sold to Pan Am in 1964-65 when further intercontinental 707s were delivered to Lufthansa. They would have been some of the earliest jet secondhand sales. Pan Am used them mainly out of Miami to the Caribbean. They were by all accounts real little pocket-rockets in the Pan Am fleet, particularly compared to their original turbojet 707-321s.
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Old Nov 26, 2013, 10:58 am
  #3767  
 
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Originally Posted by jrl22
...in addition to their nonstop LAX-JFK service using a 727-100, I seem to recall that MGM Grand Air had a couple flights via LAS ... and for some reason I associate a DC8-62 with MGM Grand in addition to the 727
I would have gone for this as well. I recall seeing an MGM Grand DC8-62 parked at London Stansted some time in the early 1990s, presumably on some high-end charter. Felt a bit inconsequential in comparison, all of use just walking in to the terminal from our AirUK 146 just arrived from Edinburgh .....

Last edited by WHBM; Nov 26, 2013 at 11:03 am
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Old Nov 26, 2013, 11:44 am
  #3768  
 
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Originally Posted by jlemon
7) Only one airline was operating Fokker F28 jet service into Tallahassee (TLH) at this time. Identify the air carrier and two nonstop routes it served with the F28 from TLH.

8) This airline was operating daily direct jet service from Edmonton (YEG) to Des Moines (DSM). One intermediate stop was made en route. Identify the air carrier, the intermediate stop and the aircraft type.
7) I'll try US from MIA and CLT

8) My best guess is NW via MSP, probably with a DC9.

Any of you get in on the Wideroe Airlines (WF) "fuel dump error" fares over the past couple of days? I booked a February trip msy-iah-iad-dxb rt for $432 -- 2.5 cpm -- and a new destination for me.
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Old Nov 26, 2013, 12:05 pm
  #3769  
 
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Originally Posted by jlemon
2) You have now attended your meeting in Miami and wish to travel to Providenciales (PLS) in the Turks and Caicos Islands. Your old sailboat buddy has just arrived at the local marina with his catamaran and it's time to go sailing! You discover there are not one but two airlines flying nonstop jet service from MIA to PLS. Name both air carriers and the different equipment types they operated on the route.

3) You are now back in Miami after an excellent sail trip in the Turks and Caicos Islands. You need to travel to St. Petersburg, Florida for a meeting. Now you could fly nonstop to Tampa on AA, DL or US.....but then you discover there is one airline flying nonstop jet service from Miami to St. Petersburg (PIE). Identify this airline and the aircraft type it operated on the route.
OK, wild guess time for these last two:
2) American, 72S, and Cayman (KX), with a 727-200.

3) Air South (WV), 737.
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Old Nov 26, 2013, 6:29 pm
  #3770  
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Originally Posted by WHBM
Sort of, they were originally delivered to Lufthansa in 1961-62, and used on surprisingly lengthy routes, such as Frankfurt to South America, South Africa, and Japan, all via plenty of intermediate points of course. They were sold to Pan Am in 1964-65 when further intercontinental 707s were delivered to Lufthansa. They would have been some of the earliest jet secondhand sales. Pan Am used them mainly out of Miami to the Caribbean. They were by all accounts real little pocket-rockets in the Pan Am fleet, particularly compared to their original turbojet 707-321s.
Many thanks for the assist, WHBM! I was unsure of the origins of these Pan Am operated B720B aircraft.....and thanks to jrl22, too!

Pan Am also operated several B720-023B aircraft as well which I believe were originally flown by American. Two specific PA operated B720B aircraft come to mind: N780PA "Jet Clipper Carib" and N782PA "Jet Clipper De Soto". Interestingly, both of these B720s have the HF radio antenna.....which leads me to believe they were modified into this configuration for their operation by Pan Am as AA B720/720B aircraft did not have the distinctive spiked antenna on the tail.
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Old Nov 26, 2013, 7:10 pm
  #3771  
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Originally Posted by jrl22
7) USAir was, I believe, still operating ex-Piedmont (ex-Empire) F-28s in the southeast ... Charlotte would be an obvious route, possibly Ft Lauderdale at the other end

8) The painfully obvious guess is United via Denver, perhaps with a 737-300 ... which means one, two, or all three are likely wrong <g>

9) In addition to their nonstop LAX-JFK service using a 727-100, I seem to recall that MGM Grand Air had a couple flights via LAS ... and for some reason I associate a DC8-62 with MGM Grand in addition to the 727
7) USAir is correct! Although FLL was not one of the destinations served. Here are the scheds......

US 809: CLT-TLH
Op: Daily
Equip: F28

US 815: TLH-MIA
Op: Daily
Equip: F28

US 942: MIA-TPA-TLH
Op: Daily
Equip: F28

US 103: TLH-CLT-IAD
Op: Daily
Equip: F28

These former PI aircraft were configured with an F/Y cabin....and I believe these flights were the only sched F28 services into MIA and TPA at this time as well.

8) Your statement "all three are likely wrong" is correct.....and I see that miniliq has responded to this quiz item.....

9) Yep, it was MGM Grand Air! Here are the scheds in question.....

MG 21: LAX-LAS-JFK
Op: Thurs. and Sun. only
Equip: 727

MG 711: JFK-LAS-LAX
Op: Thurs. and Sun. only
Equip: 727

MGM Grand Air also operated DC-8 aircraft nonstop between Los Angeles and New York at one point but not at this time. All flights in the fall of 1994 were operated by MG with B727 equipment including two round trip transcon nonstops LAX-JFK that both flew daily except Saturday schedules in each direction in addition to the above referenced onestop flights. All MGM Grand Air flights also used the West Imperial Terminal located on the south side of LAX instead of the main multi-terminal complex.

BTW, I knew a lady back in the day that worked as a flight attendant on the DC-8 for the airline......but, alas, I never had the opportunity to experience their premium class transcon service.

Last edited by jlemon; Nov 26, 2013 at 7:59 pm Reason: additional info......
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Old Nov 26, 2013, 7:18 pm
  #3772  
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Originally Posted by miniliq
7) I'll try US from MIA and CLT

8) My best guess is NW via MSP, probably with a DC9.

Any of you get in on the Wideroe Airlines (WF) "fuel dump error" fares over the past couple of days? I booked a February trip msy-iah-iad-dxb rt for $432 -- 2.5 cpm -- and a new destination for me.
7) Correct as noted above!

8) Correct! The aircraft was a DC-9-30. And I do not think there was much in the way of thru pax traffic from Edmonton to Des Moines........
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Old Nov 26, 2013, 7:19 pm
  #3773  
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Originally Posted by jlemon
Many thanks for the assist, WHBM! I was unsure of the origins of these Pan Am operated B720B aircraft.....and thanks to jrl22, too!

Pan Am also operated several B720-023B aircraft as well which I believe were originally flown by American. ...
correct, Boeing's customer designator for AA is -23
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Old Nov 26, 2013, 7:47 pm
  #3774  
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Originally Posted by miniliq
OK, wild guess time for these last two:
2) American, 72S, and Cayman (KX), with a 727-200.

3) Air South (WV), 737.
2) Excellent guesses, sir! American is correct but not with the B727-200. And the other air carrier was not Cayman Airways (KX) although I believe they did fly the route some years earlier with the B727-200. Also, the 72S had left the KX fleet by this time as the airline was operating B737-200s.

The other airline was Turks and Caicos Airways Ltd. (QW) with B737 equipment....although I wonder if another airline was actually operating their B737 flights for them as they were primarily flying Beechcraft 1900 and Cessna aircraft on local interisland services at this time.

Here are the southbound scheds......

AA 285: MIA-PLS
Op: Daily
Equip: 757

QW 012: MIA-PLS
Op: Weds., Thurs., Sat. & Sun. only
Equip: 73S

QW 022: MIA-GDT-PLS
Op: Mon. and Fri. only
Equip: 73S

3) Correct! Here are the northbound scheds operated by Air South (WV) at this time.....

WV 202: MIA-PIE-ATL-CAE
Op: Daily except Sun.
Equip: 73S

WV 152: MIA-PIE
Op: Daily except Sun.
Equip: 73S

WV 210: MIA-PIE-ATL-CAE
Op: Daily
Equip: 73S

WV 307: MIA-PIE
Op: Daily
Equip: 73S

WV 216: MIA-PIE-ATL-CAE
Op: Daily except Sat.
Equip: 73S
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Old Nov 27, 2013, 5:43 am
  #3775  
 
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Originally Posted by jlemon
Pan Am also operated several B720-023B aircraft as well which I believe were originally flown by American. Two specific PA operated B720B aircraft come to mind: N780PA "Jet Clipper Carib" and N782PA "Jet Clipper De Soto".
There were three of these. Pan Am really had the corner on what 707-series secondhand aircraft came available in the early 1960s. They got 9 720Bs, three (N780-82PA) from American in 1963, and Lufthansa's six (N783-88PA) in 1964-65. They also bought the two 707-139 (N778-78PA) that Western disposed of in 1962, and six 707-331 (N701-06PA) as early as 1959-60, ordered by TWA but where Howard Hughes messed about the financiers (as ever) at point of delivery, but this time they cancelled the deal and sold them elsewhere. I'm sure Juan Trippe, doubtless working quietly behind the scenes, enjoyed this transaction.
Interestingly, both of these B720s have the HF radio antenna.....which leads me to believe they were modified into this configuration for their operation by Pan Am as AA B720/720B aircraft did not have the distinctive spiked antenna on the tail.
Given their lack of routes wholly over land and within range of regular VHF/FM radio, aircraft without HF would have been pretty useless to Pan Am, whereas I can't think of any American routes in the early 1960s where it would be needed, so presumably their ops centre didn't even have it available.
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Old Nov 27, 2013, 10:55 am
  #3776  
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Hmm... interesting stuff here. TWA leased four 720-051Bs for a short time back in the early 1960s. I believe (though I'm not sure) that these aircraft were delivered to TWA direct from Boeing. If I'm not mistaken, they represented the first turbofan powered aircraft that TWA operated until the arrival of its 707-131Bs later on. TWA later "returned" the aircraft to Northwest Orient where they soldiered on as red tails for many more years.
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Old Nov 27, 2013, 12:12 pm
  #3777  
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Originally Posted by WHBM
Given their lack of routes wholly over land and within range of regular VHF/FM radio, aircraft without HF would have been pretty useless to Pan Am, whereas I can't think of any American routes in the early 1960s where it would be needed, so presumably their ops centre didn't even have it available.
Indeed, in April of 1962, American served only two international destinations: Mexico City and Toronto. Not exactly long range, transoceanic routes.....

This began to change, of course, in the early 70's when AA was operating Boeing 707 service to Honolulu and then on to Pago Pago, Nadi, Auckland, Sydney and Melbourne depending on the day of the week.....
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Old Nov 27, 2013, 12:54 pm
  #3778  
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Originally Posted by jlemon

Bonus quiz item.....

12) Identify the only airline that operated jet service on the short hop from Washington D.C. (DCA) to Baltimore (BWI) in the fall of 1994 as well as the aircraft type flown on the route.


And then there was one.....that is, one unanswered quiz item left!

I'll go ahead and provide the answer.....

12) The airline was United. Here's the sched......

UA 549: MIA-DCA-BWI-DEN-ABQ
Op: Daily
Equip: B737-500

Another somewhat interesting milk run routing, of course......

And speaking of classic milk runs, here's one more bonus quiz item as we head into the long Thanksgiving holiday weekend here in the good old U.S. of A:

In 1969, this airline was operating direct, no change of plane service from Seattle to Kotzebue in Alaska. Seven (7) intermediate stops were made en route on this particular flight which operated five days a week. The aircraft was configured with a single class, all coach cabin.

Identify the airline, the equipment flown on the route and all seven intermediate stops in the order in which they were made.
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Old Nov 27, 2013, 12:55 pm
  #3779  
 
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Happy Thanksgiving to all! I continue to be amazed at the vast civil aviation knowledge held by the people that post on this thread!

It is 1983, and you are in Jersey, Channel Islands (UK) and you need to get to Edinburgh on a Saturday. What airline will take you to EDI nonstop?
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Old Nov 27, 2013, 2:49 pm
  #3780  
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Originally Posted by Seat 2A
Hmm... interesting stuff here. TWA leased four 720-051Bs for a short time back in the early 1960s. I believe (though I'm not sure) that these aircraft were delivered to TWA direct from Boeing. If I'm not mistaken, they represented the first turbofan powered aircraft that TWA operated until the arrival of its 707-131Bs later on. TWA later "returned" the aircraft to Northwest Orient where they soldiered on as red tails for many more years.
Well, I learn something new almost each and every day.....

I took a look at the August 29, 1962 TWA system timetable and there they were: a number of flights operated with Boeing 720B equipment by the airline. Cities served with the aircraft, which TWA called the "Boeing 720B Superjet", included Baltimore, Boston, Kansas City, Los Angeles, New York and St. Louis. An example routing was TW 85 flying BOS-BAL-STL-MKC-LAX.......

Last edited by jlemon; Nov 27, 2013 at 3:15 pm Reason: additional info & timetable date correction......
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