WHBM

BOAC, and later BA, did what a number of European carriers did, which was one stop in Canada and then one in the US, because this then gave them rights to carry local passengers on the international tag-on which would not be possible if both were in Canada or both in the US. The most common combination, for a number of operators, was Montreal and then Chicago, but there were various other combinations over time; BOAC did Montreal and Detroit for a while.

I think it was 1982 that I went on BA London-Seattle-Vancouver, but for this combination they either hadn't got 5th freedom rights, or just didn't feel getting them was worthwhile. It was a short hop of about 30 minutes, despite which there had been a crew change in Seattle, and as this was a BA intercontinental division operation a short snack and a cup of tea were, of course, served, even in Economy. Seat belt signs off. Sandwich and cake - thump. Tea - splosh. All trays please - grab. Seat belt signs on. Well, it was about 5.00 pm local time (although 1.00 am as far as our London-timeclocked bodies were concerned). The skipper pointed out the Boeing factory in Everett as we flew past, which seemed somewhat ironic as we were in a Tristar 500 !

jlemon

Well, if you're looking for current fifth freedom rights within North America (such as between the U.S. and Canada and/or Mexico), I really cannot think of any others beyond those already mentioned.....they appear to be mostly gone due to reasons explained above by WHBM and others.

I do know of one current fifth freedom service between the U.S and Europe that may not have been mentioned: Singapore's nonstop B777-300ER service from Houston to Moscow. This SQ flight continues on to Singapore, of course....

And I recall an interesting agreement between LAN Chile and Carnival Air Lines back in the early 1990's. For many years, of course, LA operated between JFK and MIA as an extension of their Latin American service with a variety of equipment such as the B707, B747, B767 and I think even a DC-10 at one point. If I remember correctly, this agreement allowed LAN Chile to carry local traffic between JFK and MIA in their B767 aircraft as the service was also operated as a Carnival Air Lines flight. I do remember seeing these JFK-MIA flights in the OAG listed as being operated by both LAN Chile and Carnival with 767 equipment (and the flight number may have even been the same but listed twice via the respective KW and LA two letter airline codes). So if one were to travel on Carnival between JFK and MIA on this specific flight, you would actually be on board a LAN Chile B767, presumably featuring the latter's on board service standards. I do not know the specifics concerning this agreement; however, I believe it did happen.

jlemon

13. Given the frequency, I'd say this is Tower Air (FF). And just one year before, TWA was still flying B747s between LAX and JFK.

BTW, I actually interviewed for a marketing position in L.A. with Tower Air. The person conducting the interview was a stunningly beautiful brunette. She definitely noted my interest in her as well as in the position (please forgive me, no pun intended) and haughtily suggested that I look her up when I was in New York. However, we never did hook up (so to speak) and BTW, I did not get the job. But, my oh my, that was one beautiful lady.....

14. What?! A four engine jetliner being operated from LAX to LAS in 1996?! A B747-300 perhaps? Or maybe an A340? Or could this actually be a stretch DC-8 Super 70?!? Or none of the above?

So it's wild guess time: Tristar with a BAe 146. I flew on them around that time from LAX to LAS and got to experience the very tight six across seating configuration with minimal leg room in an all Y cabin.....and once was enough.

Indelaware

RJ seasonally flies DTW-YUL-AMM. However, I don't believe that they carry local traffic DTW-YUL.

Track

When Korean was still flying Seoul-Anchorage-JFK, passengers could fly between the two U.S. points - but only if they had arrived in Anchorage on Korean. I booked this once, inserting a train ride to Fairbanks between my arrival in and departure from Anchorage, but the route was cancelled before I had a chance to ride it. True, this is not an example of fifth-freedom rights but rather of ninth-freedom rights - or is it really, given the requirement that the passenger arrive in Anchorage on Korean?

WHBM

Briefly, another arrangement I recall, a variation on the LAN/Carnival arrangement above, was between El Al and charter carrier North American, which through the 1990s operated extension services from JFK to Miami and LAX with 757s, replacing direct El Al services to those points. Because it was a US carrier they could also carry local passengers on these less-than-daily operations which fed the El Al 747s.

But we're getting away from questions, so I'll just put one here, reminded by my mention of Vancouver BC above from 1982. A few years later I was back in that city and saw an interesting sight, a Lockheed 10A Electra (yes, the 1930s twin-engined one) make a departure every half hour or so. Quite a crowd gathered to watch it each time, of course. Can anyone guess which major airline this belonged to and what it was doing ?

jlemon

And with MD-80 equipment as well. From the April 2, 1995 OAG......

LY 201: Dep. JFK 6:35am, arr. MIA 9:30am
Op: Tuesdays & Thursdays only
Equip: 757

LY 201: Dep. JFK 6:40am, arr. MIA 9:35am
Op: Sundays only
Equip: M80

This schedule appears as well in the JFK to MIA flight info section in this OAG....

LA/KW 149: Dep. JFK 5:15pm, arr. MIA 8:25pm
Op: Daily except Wednesdays & Sundays
Equip: 767

This is the LAN Chile/Carnival service discussed above, of course......

jlemon

This fifth freedom service in North America may not have been mentioned:

JFK-YVR-HKG round trip flights on Cathay Pacific (CX) operated with a B777-300.

And as Seat 2A can attest, CX's premium cabin service is one of the best out there......

jlemon

While we await the return of Seat 2A (who is most likely experiencing a lack of internet connectivity during his current rail journey), I thought I would ask a question which is not a quiz item but may be of interest to many of us:

How many scheduled airline flights have you taken on board piston powered aircraft? Also identify the air carrier, the equipment and the routing.

Now I've taken many, many flights on board turboprop powered aircraft but relatively few on airplanes equipped with piston engines. So I'll start this off:

Southern Airways - Martin 4-0-4 from MEM to HSV

Swift Aire Lines - de Havilland Heron from LAX to SBP via an intermediate stop in SMX

Dash Air (formerly Air Irvine) - Piper Navajo between LAX and SNA (several times)

I also flew on board a Curtiss C-46; however, this was not a scheduled airline flight....

cs57

Cessna 402 (Cape Air) many times Rutland, VT (RUT) to BOS.
Piper Navajo (Precision Air) (RP) RUT/VSF/EEN/BOS (1970s)
DC6B (Olympic) 1973--Athens/Crete
DC3 (Naples Air, PBA) TPA/Naples, FL/MIA 1973/74

WHBM

It's amazing. Much as I have flown in many different types on various non-scheduled operations, DH89, Islander, DC3, Antonov-2 and many more, plus G-WHBM itself is of course piston, I've never been on a piston scheduled flight.

First flight 1966 was a Viscount. Turbine thereafter.

Another one that strikes me is I've made very few connecting flights. Over 90%, possibly over 95%, have been point-to-point, and fewer still had an intermediate stop. I think this would be most unusual in the US. It's different here.

Seat 2A

I've just come home from a fantastic four day, three thousand mile rail journey (DEN-OAK-PDX-HVR) that included plenty of beautiful scenery and good times onboard but no internet access. The flight from Havre to Billings (via LWT) was one of the roughest I've ever been on as a broad band of thunderstorms severely buffeted our little Beech 1900 enroute. I am ever so thankful to be able to report that after 4707 flights, I've still never barfed on an airplane. Good thing I didn't eat before that flight though...

As for my flights on piston powered aircraft:

1963 JFK-PVD-JFK American DC-6
1986 MIA-APL Provincetown-Boston DC-3
2002 TUO-MON Pionair DC-3

tonywestsider

I've flown piston-powered aircraft many, many times in the 1960s. Most of these flights were on Hawaiian Airlines when they were exclusively a scheduled inter-island carrier. I only flew one route on HA piston-powered aircraft, which was HNL-LIH. I was a kid then. I sometimes flew with Mom, other times by myself. The HA aircraft were:

Convair 340 circa 1964 and before
Douglas DC-3, around 1965 before they were retired
Douglas DC-6B, in 1964 and 1965

Then in the late 1970s on the same route, I flew on OK Air (Oahu-Kauai Airlines) on a Cessna 402.

Seat 2A

Good morning from cloudy Fairbanks. For many here, the clouds and impending rain are a welcome change from the past few days when temperatures reached into the mid-eighties. I'm thankful to have been out of town during that period as I prefer it around 65.

Soon it'll be time to relocate to Denali where the 12:15 Toklat run beckons later today. In the meantime, here are what's left of the quiz questions from last week.

PLEASE NOTE: All of the following questions are based upon schedules posted in the March 1996 North American OAG

1. We’ll start our journey flying from Atlanta to Tampa. You’ve flown this route often, always on Delta which offers multiple flights per day with spacious wide-bodied L-1011s and 767s. This time however, you want to sample the competition which consists of three other airlines operating nonstop jet service. Name the other airlines and the equipment each of them operated on this route. PARTIALLY ANSWERED (Kiwi International 72S and ValuJet D9S - We need just one more airline)

6. Driving east from Council Bluffs to Des Moines, you pay a short visit to De Soto, Iowa (Home of Right Turn Feed – famous for being the world's first drive-through feed store!) before turning in your car at Des Moines International Airport and boarding one of three daily jet flights offered by this airline into Chicago’s Midway Airport. What airline are you flying upon and what kind of jets did it operate in 1996 (Both of which served the DSM-MDW route)?

8. Vámonos a Mexico! Two airlines offer nonstop flights between Phoenix and Puerto Vallarta and you’re in the mood to get there in style. Both airlines offer First Class service aboard twin-engined jetliners. Phoenix’s hometown airline - America West – is one of them, offering a single daily nonstop 737-300. However, in your estimation the other airline offers a much nicer service in the forward cabin. Additionally, its flight is timed to offer a full luncheon. What airline is this and what type of aircraft would you be flying upon? ANSWERED

9. Mexicana and AeroMexico offer all but one of the nonstop jet flights between Puerto Vallarta and Mexico City. Looking to add another airline to your growing list of airlines flown upon, you’ve booked yourself a seat aboard another Mexican airline which offers a single daily nonstop down to Mexico City. Name the airline and – if you feel up to it after all those Margaritas – the type of aircraft you’ll be flying upon.

10. It was only a month ago that your beloved Pittsburgh Steelers were beaten by the hated Dallas Cowboys and you had to listen to Troy Aikman and Emmitt Smith holler “We’re goin’ to Disneyland!!” during those dreadful commercials after the game. Now, after breathing Mexico City air for the past three days, the idea of flying to Orlando sounds literally as well as figuratively like a breath of fresh air. Only one airline serves this route with a single daily nonstop. Name the airline and the aircraft upon which you’ll be flying.

15. You have a conference to attend at the world famous Broadmoor Resort in Colorado Springs, Colorado. Three airlines offer nonstop service between Las Vegas and Colorado Springs. Identify each airline and the equipment utilized on this route.

16. Even though Albuquerque is only seven hours down I-25 from Colorado Springs, an impending spring storm has you thinking it would be a better idea to fly. This airline’s offers the only nonstop jet service with a single daily (X7) flight each afternoon. Name the airline and the aircraft operated.

17. Only a few years ago, one could choose from a variety of DC-9 flights operated by either Continental or Texas International between Albuquerque and Los Angeles. Since those two airlines merged and subsequently stopped offering nonstop flights in this market, two other airlines have taken up the slack, each offering nonstop flights – one with Boeing equipment and the other with McDonnell Douglas equipment. Identify the airlines and their respective airplanes operated on the ABQ-LAX route. ANSWERED

19. These days the largest airliner in terms of capacity flying between Portland and Seattle is the DHC-8-400 seating 76 passengers. Back in march of 1996, two airlines offered single daily wide-bodied flights on the 129 mile PDX-SEA route. Name the airlines and the aircraft operated.

20. Three airlines offer nonstop service between Seattle and the New York area airports. This airline offers the only nonstop wide-bodied service between Seattle and any New York airport. You’ve booked a seat in First Class aboard its 8:55am departure. Name the airline and aircraft you’d be flying aboard. ANSWERED

jrl767

that would most likely have been TWA 708, L-1011 (evening return from JFK was 701)

3.5 years on FT and I have just stumbled on this thread today ... suffice it to say I didn't get a lot of work done ...