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Old Timer's Airline Quiz and Discussion

Old Timer's Airline Quiz and Discussion

Old Apr 17, 13, 2:46 pm
  #2581  
 
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Originally Posted by WHBM View Post
Well, I left at 6am this morning and drove 3 hours up the M1 motorway to a customer near Burton-on-Trent, which is right in the middle of England. Now Burton is long-famous for beer (like Milwaukee in the US), and although the reason I've come here is nothing to do with this industry, I'm hotel-bound in the right place for providing such a prize.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brewers_of_Burton

and the prize is due. Yes it was a Conti-Flug BAe146 that took me to/from the inadvertent Caravelle sighting. Berlin Tempelhof airport would be worth a mention in its own right in this thread, alas closed a couple of years ago. Conti was a short-lived airline, probably close to broke even on LCY, lost much money on Venice. Morning and evening roundtrips to LCY, filled in mid-day on the Venice run.

http://www.planepictures.net/netshow.php?id=534680
I'm looking forward to that pint.....and shall reciprocate, of course, on the second round! :-:
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Old Apr 17, 13, 2:51 pm
  #2582  
 
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Originally Posted by jlemon View Post

Good Afternoon All!

This first group of quiz items all have a time line of the Fall of 1993:

2) This airline was operating weekly nonstop service between Houston (IAH) and Roatan, Honduras (RTB). Identify the air carrier and the equipment it operated on the route. ANSWERED

8) Only one air carrier was flying between New York (JFK) and Panama City, Panama (PTY). The service was operated twice a week from JFK to PTY and was not nonstop as an intermediate destination was served. Identify the airline, the equipment type operated and the intermediate stop.

11) Pointe a Pitre, Guadeloupe (PTP) had weekly nonstop service from both Bordeaux (BOD) and Marseille (MRS) at this time. Different airlines flew each route with different aircraft types. Name both airlines and the aircraft they operated on the route.

13) Two (2) airlines were operating nonstop between Auckland (AKL) and Perth (PER). Qantas (QF) was not directly operating any of these flights but was instead code sharing with another air carrier that actually operated the service. Name both airlines, the aircraft types they flew on the route and the QF code share partner.

14) No less than six (6) airlines were operating nonstop between Dubai (DXB) and London Heathrow (LHR) at this time. Only one of the air carriers operated Boeing 747 equipment. Identify all six airlines and also name the only air carrier that was operating the B747 on the route. And for bonus points, name the respective aircraft types flown by the other five airlines on the DXB-LHR route.

The following five (5) quiz items all have a time line of the late Winter of early 2007:

16) Only one air carrier was flying nonstop on a daily basis between Miami (MIA) and Cozumel (CZM) at this time. Identify the airline and the equipment it operated on the route.

17) Only one airline was flying nonstop between Vancouver (YVR) and London Gatwick (LGW). The service was flown twice a week. Name the air carrier and the aircraft operated on the route. ANSWERED

18) This air carrier was operating direct, one stop, no change of plane service from Providenciales, Turks & Caicos Islands (PLS) to London Heathrow (LHR) on a weekly basis. Identify the airline, the equipment flown on the route and the intermediate stop.

19) Three (3) airlines were operating nonstop service between Paramaribo, Suriname (PBM) and Amsterdam (AMS). None of these flights were operated on a daily basis. Name all three air carriers and the respective aircraft types they operated on the route. ANSWERED

20) Mt. Pleasant in the Falkland Islands (MPN) had scheduled passenger air service operated at this time by two different entities. One was an airline and the other entity was....well, it was something else entirely. Identify the airline, the other entity, the aircraft types operated and the routes flown by each air carrier from MPN. ANSWERED
The above questions are still out there and ready for answers......

Last edited by jlemon; Apr 21, 13 at 3:36 pm
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Old Apr 18, 13, 8:04 am
  #2583  
 
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17) Only one airline was flying nonstop between Vancouver (YVR) and London Gatwick (LGW). The service was flown twice a week. Name the air carrier and the aircraft operated on the route.
Zoom 767.

Another one of those silly airline names Canadians seem to like
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Old Apr 18, 13, 8:59 am
  #2584  
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20) Mt. Pleasant in the Falkland Islands (MPN) had scheduled passenger air service operated at this time by two different entities. One was an airline and the other entity was....well, it was something else entirely. Identify the airline, the other entity, the aircraft types operated and the routes flown by each air carrier from MPN.
Back in 2007, I tried to fly on a LAN Chile award into MPN, but alas it was an invalid destination for award travel. As I recall, the nonstop flight was out of Ushuaia, Argentina using an Airbus A319.

As to the other "entity" - one that operated aircraft no less - I'm guessing it may have been L.A.D.E., the state owned airline operated by the Argentine Air Force. I've seen their little F28 jets at Calafate and for a time during the busy summer season you could occasionally get lucky and have a 707 operating your flight. I believe that 707 was retired around 2006 or 7. As for service to Port Stanley, if indeed there was any from LADE, I imagine it might have emanated from somewhere like Rio Gallegos.
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Old Apr 18, 13, 4:53 pm
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Originally Posted by Wally Bird View Post
Zoom 767.

Another one of those silly airline names Canadians seem to like
17) Zoom Airlines (Z4) operating Boeing 767-300 aircraft YVR-LGW is correct!

And Zoom was also flying the 763 on a weekly TATL routing of YVR-GLA-MAN at this time.....
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Old Apr 18, 13, 5:05 pm
  #2586  
 
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Originally Posted by Seat 2A View Post
Back in 2007, I tried to fly on a LAN Chile award into MPN, but alas it was an invalid destination for award travel. As I recall, the nonstop flight was out of Ushuaia, Argentina using an Airbus A319.

As to the other "entity" - one that operated aircraft no less - I'm guessing it may have been L.A.D.E., the state owned airline operated by the Argentine Air Force. I've seen their little F28 jets at Calafate and for a time during the busy summer season you could occasionally get lucky and have a 707 operating your flight. I believe that 707 was retired around 2006 or 7. As for service to Port Stanley, if indeed there was any from LADE, I imagine it might have emanated from somewhere like Rio Gallegos.
LAN Chile is correct! The airline was alternating between A319 and A320 equipment for their service into Mt. Pleasant (MPN) in the Falkland Islands in the South Atlantic at this time. Here's a typical routing......

LA 992: MPN-RGL-PUQ-PMC-SCL Op: Feb. 17 only & Mar. 17 only Equip: A320

And here's another routing...

LA 990: MPN-PUQ-PMC-SCL Op: Sat. only eff. Mar. 24 Equip: A319

RGL - Rio Gallegos
PUQ - Punta Arenas
PMC - Puerto Montt
SCL - Santiago

However, as for the "entity", it was not L.A.D.E........so please guess again!
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Old Apr 19, 13, 12:22 pm
  #2587  
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Greetings from a pleasant interlude on a sunny afternoon here in central Utah. I'm driving from Colorado to San Diego. I was supposed to be on an epic train journey but those plans underwent substantial last minute changes due to weather, rockslides, etc. I do like a good drive though and Utah is as spectacularly beautiful as ever. As soon as I hit Nevada later this afternoon, I will however have to stop and pick up some real beer, not the flavorless 3.2 stuff they sell here in the Beehive State, a.k.a. the Behave State!

Thanks again to jlemon for this fine set of questions. I will attempt a guess (more like a shot in the dark...) at 19:

19) Three (3) airlines were operating nonstop service between Paramaribo, Suriname (PBM) and Amsterdam (AMS). None of these flights were operated on a daily basis. Name all three air carriers and the respective aircraft types they operated on the route.
KLM MD-11
Martinair MD-11
Suriname Airways A340
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Old Apr 19, 13, 5:14 pm
  #2588  
 
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And greetings from ...... London, at the end of a week which saw me move on from Burton directly to Weymouth, in the south-west of England before returning here. Now Weymouth is an obscure and sleepy seaside town which had its heyday in the 1930s-50s, and shows it, where we felt out of place walking through the main street at 7.30 am in our business suits. Part of it though is Portland, where the major Royal Navy helicopter base is rather run down nowadays, but still runs to an SAR machine which keeps things ticking along. To my shame in front of our resident Heli expert, I've no idea what type this rotary aircraft is.

All this military stuff is quite irrelevant, but a lead-in to

20) Mt. Pleasant in the Falkland Islands (MPN) had scheduled passenger air service operated at this time by two different entities. One was an airline and the other entity was....well, it was something else entirely. Identify the airline, the other entity, the aircraft types operated and the routes flown by each air carrier from MPN.
for the main air route to the Falklands was, and is, the Royal Air Force, operating a scheduled route from the UK that appears in the OAG pretty much halfway round the world. Back in 1993 this was presumably using the RAF Lochkeed Tristar 500s that had been bought from British Airways. The route starts in Britain not at an airport, but at the Brize Norton military base, and routes out through Ascension Island, near the equator, and on to the Falklands. Published air fare is quite high, but a number on each flight are military (who travel this route in civilian clothes), or Falkland residents, who pay about 10% of the published fare. In addition the flight takes to Ascension those heading for St. Helena, another British island in the South Atlantic, which has no airport at all but is accessed onwards by infrequent ship. Passenger loads on the Falkland flights are rarely more than 50%, the main task being the freight carried. Typical frequency has long been about three flights in two weeks, which pretty much occupies one aircraft and about five flight crews. Brize Norton is pretty inaccessible, being in the middle of nowhere about 80 miles west of Heathrow, but offers a few upsides such as free parking for the duration of your trip.

In more recent years the RAF has been short of long-range transport aircraft, and the Falklands run has been subcontracted out (under RAF flight numbers) to charter companies, a wide and sometimes bizarre range appearing. Both BA 747s and Virgin A340s have done stints, but with somewhat "low bidder" military procurement zeal, there have also been series done by Air Seychelles (I kid you not) A340s, and currently a Portugese charter carrier. Periodically this leads to criticism, rarely heeded of course, in the UK press. As far as cabin service goes, none of these is apparently a patch on the RAF service, with crew long-established in officers' mess service and VIP flights, and a high specification of what catering the contractors along the route supply. The civilian airline stand-ins are a real disappointment in comparison.

the Ilyushin IL-62 (which I've always thought of as the poor man's VC-10).
Well I'll link here as one of the last VC-10 tasks anywhere is one permanently based in the Falklands which acts as a tanker to the fighter aircraft there, and is also used for long-range oceanic patrols. There would have been one there in 1993 and there still is today.

LAN Chile is correct! The airline was alternating between A319 and A320 equipment for their service into Mt. Pleasant (MPN) in the Falkland Islands
A couple of years earlier this service of LAN was operated by BAe146. These aircraft came to LAN from Presidential Airways in the USA, who I think we discussed above.
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Old Apr 20, 13, 11:07 am
  #2589  
 
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Originally Posted by Seat 2A View Post
Greetings from a pleasant interlude on a sunny afternoon here in central Utah. I'm driving from Colorado to San Diego. I was supposed to be on an epic train journey but those plans underwent substantial last minute changes due to weather, rockslides, etc. I do like a good drive though and Utah is as spectacularly beautiful as ever. As soon as I hit Nevada later this afternoon, I will however have to stop and pick up some real beer, not the flavorless 3.2 stuff they sell here in the Beehive State, a.k.a. the Behave State!

Thanks again to jlemon for this fine set of questions. I will attempt a guess (more like a shot in the dark...) at 19:



KLM MD-11
Martinair MD-11
Suriname Airways A340
Sounds like Seat 2A was on I-70 in Utah! I remember driving on that wilderness freeway en route from Telluride to Santa Barbara via GJT in a 1978 British racing green Datsun 280Z way back in the day. It was great trip and Utah is indeed a very beautiful place! Such national parks as Bryce Canyon, Canyonlands, Capitol Reef and Zion remain some of my favorite places to visit - they're right up there with Yosemite and Sequoia/Kings Canyon in California IMHO......and all of these wonderful locations are great to fly over as well on a clear day!

Back to the Quiz.....

KLM (KL), Martinair Holland (MP) and Surinam Airways (PY) are all correct!

However, the equipment that each carrier was operating PBM-AMS in February of 2007 was a bit different:

KL - B747
MP- B767
PY - B747

I think all of the above respective aircraft were series 300 types but am not completely sure about this.....but, of course, the KL equipment may have been series 200 models with the SUD conversion....

Surinam Airways was also operating MD-82 aircraft at this time from PBM to such places as Aruba (AUA), Belem (BEL), Curacao (CUR) and Port of Spain (POS)....

Last edited by jlemon; Apr 20, 13 at 11:13 am
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Old Apr 20, 13, 11:38 am
  #2590  
 
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Originally Posted by WHBM View Post
And greetings from ...... London, at the end of a week which saw me move on from Burton directly to Weymouth, in the south-west of England before returning here. Now Weymouth is an obscure and sleepy seaside town which had its heyday in the 1930s-50s, and shows it, where we felt out of place walking through the main street at 7.30 am in our business suits. Part of it though is Portland, where the major Royal Navy helicopter base is rather run down nowadays, but still runs to an SAR machine which keeps things ticking along. To my shame in front of our resident Heli expert, I've no idea what type this rotary aircraft is.

All this military stuff is quite irrelevant, but a lead-in to



for the main air route to the Falklands was, and is, the Royal Air Force, operating a scheduled route from the UK that appears in the OAG pretty much halfway round the world. Back in 1993 this was presumably using the RAF Lochkeed Tristar 500s that had been bought from British Airways. The route starts in Britain not at an airport, but at the Brize Norton military base, and routes out through Ascension Island, near the equator, and on to the Falklands. Published air fare is quite high, but a number on each flight are military (who travel this route in civilian clothes), or Falkland residents, who pay about 10% of the published fare. In addition the flight takes to Ascension those heading for St. Helena, another British island in the South Atlantic, which has no airport at all but is accessed onwards by infrequent ship. Passenger loads on the Falkland flights are rarely more than 50%, the main task being the freight carried. Typical frequency has long been about three flights in two weeks, which pretty much occupies one aircraft and about five flight crews. Brize Norton is pretty inaccessible, being in the middle of nowhere about 80 miles west of Heathrow, but offers a few upsides such as free parking for the duration of your trip.

In more recent years the RAF has been short of long-range transport aircraft, and the Falklands run has been subcontracted out (under RAF flight numbers) to charter companies, a wide and sometimes bizarre range appearing. Both BA 747s and Virgin A340s have done stints, but with somewhat "low bidder" military procurement zeal, there have also been series done by Air Seychelles (I kid you not) A340s, and currently a Portugese charter carrier. Periodically this leads to criticism, rarely heeded of course, in the UK press. As far as cabin service goes, none of these is apparently a patch on the RAF service, with crew long-established in officers' mess service and VIP flights, and a high specification of what catering the contractors along the route supply. The civilian airline stand-ins are a real disappointment in comparison.


Well I'll link here as one of the last VC-10 tasks anywhere is one permanently based in the Falklands which acts as a tanker to the fighter aircraft there, and is also used for long-range oceanic patrols. There would have been one there in 1993 and there still is today.

A couple of years earlier this service of LAN was operated by BAe146. These aircraft came to LAN from Presidential Airways in the USA, who I think we discussed above.
Well, the Royal Navy SAR helicopter type may well have been a Westland WS-61 Sea King which is a UK-produced version of the Sikorsky S-61 that Westland built under licence......

And the Royal Air Force is indeed correct! Here are the schedules from the Feb. 2007 OAG....

RR 3200: BZZ-ASI-MPN Op: Mondays only Equip: L1011

RR 3220: BZZ-ASI-MPN Op: Thursdays only Equip: L1011

Both of the above flights departed from the Brize Norton military airbase at 11:59pm and arrived at Mount Pleasant at 3:05pm the next day.

RR 3201: MPN-ASI-BZZ Op: Wednesdays only Equip: L1011

RR 3221: MPN-ASI-BZZ Op: Saturdays only Equip: L1011

Both of the above flights departed from the Falkllands at 12 noon and arrived at Brize Norton the next day at 8:15am following the stop at Ascension Island.

Back in the Fall of 1993, the Falklands service was a bit different. The Oct. 1993 OAG lists two flights a week operated by the Royal Air Force (RR) as well with one flight being operated nonstop between Brize Norton and Mount Pleasant and the other flight making a stop at Ascension Island. However, this OAG also lists the distance between BZZ and MPN as being 7861 miles.....and I'm not sure that even the long range L1011-500 was capable of flying this distance nonstop!

Meantime, the RAF indeed continues to currently base fighter-interceptor aircraft at Mount Pleasant, being late model Eurofighter Typhoons. These jets can also be used in a ground attack role. Their presence in the South Atlantic is to deter Argentina from once again becoming "frisky" with regard to the islands they refer to as the Malvinas......

Last edited by jlemon; Apr 20, 13 at 1:24 pm Reason: Additional RR flight info for the Falklands
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Old Apr 20, 13, 11:55 am
  #2591  
 
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Originally Posted by WHBM View Post

There's some good London-based questions in the latest batch. I'll just ask one supplementary to the last one if I may. So 20A). On one of the flights mentioned in Q20, which way do the aircraft seats face ........ ?
20A) I believe the seats on board the Lockheed L1011 aircraft operated by the Royal Air Force on the BZZ-ASI-MPN route faced to the rear.....

And now it's time to mow the lawn .......

Last edited by jlemon; Apr 20, 13 at 1:22 pm
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Old Apr 20, 13, 4:34 pm
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Originally Posted by jlemon View Post
Well, the Royal Navy SAR helicopter type may well have been a Westland WS-61 Sea King which is a UK-produced version of the Sikorsky S-61 that Westland built under licence......
Well, after a little research the Portland SAR machine turns out to be an AW139, operated by CHC under contract. It changed over a few years ago from an S-61 run by Bristow. Just for our chopper team here's the day in 2008 when they changed over

http://www.pprune.org/rotorheads/321...ml#post4031553

The Oct. 1993 OAG lists two flights a week operated by the Royal Air Force (RR) as well with one flight being operated nonstop between Brize Norton and Mount Pleasant and the other flight making a stop at Ascension Island. However, this OAG also lists the distance between BZZ and MPN as being 7861 miles.....and I'm not sure that even the long range L1011-500 was capable of flying this distance nonstop!

Meantime, the RAF indeed continues to currently base fighter-interceptor aircraft at Mount Pleasant, being late model Eurofighter Typhoons. These jets can also be used in a ground attack role. Their presence in the South Atlantic is to deter Argentina from once again becoming "frisky" with regard to the islands ......
The flights always stop at Ascension; presumably the ones so shown were not available for booking to there. Not only is nonstop beyond the range of the Tristar, but they need to have very extensive fuel reserves in case landing at Mount Pleasant is not possible. The alternates are obviously not in Argentina, they have varied over time from Chile to Brazil, but the preferred option is to go back to Ascension.

The Typhoons escort all inbound flights for the final leg into the Falklands, and this has always been done; back in 1993 it was probably the last of the RAF Phantoms on this duty. The RT between the aircrews is transmitted in the cabin, and the Eurofighter crew obligingly formate on each side alternately for those with cameras. On the return flight, with those military who are returning from this somewhat bleak posting, a large PA system on the ramp always plays The Animals "We've Got to Get Out of This Place" as the passengers walk across.

Senior colleague of self want to the Falklands nearly 30 years ago as a newly-graduated civil engineer to build the airport. It was paid at offshore rates (and not taxed) and there was nothing to spend the money on anyway, he got married on return to his university-days girlfriend and they paid cash for their first house with the proceeds. They still say they have a better house nowadays than if he had got a comparable job back home instead.

20A) I believe the seats on board the Lockheed L1011 aircraft operated by the Royal Air Force on the BZZ-ASI-MPN route faced to the rear.....
Sorry, jl, that was a trick question. The RAF has long been known for installing rearward-facing seats in their transport aircraft, and for many years not only did this but required it from their civilian charter operators as well. Stories of British Caledonian One-Elevens having the seats turned round at Gatwick (took two engineers, a box of wrenches, and about two hours work) for military charters, and then being late back to base not having time to put them back to normal again before a round trip to Edinburgh, so the early morning passengers to and from Scotland had an unusual seating arrangement ! However as seats and their fittings have got more sophisticated and certified this finally became impractical, and the Tristar was the first RAF transport with forward-facing seats. The last VC-10s still have rearward-facing ones.

Last edited by WHBM; Apr 20, 13 at 4:44 pm
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Old Apr 21, 13, 9:10 am
  #2593  
 
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Excellent information, as always, above from WHBM!

Some of the flight info in the Oct. 1993 OAG concerning the RAF flights between Brize Norton and Mount Pleasant was obviously in error with regard to the alleged nonstop service. In fact, the departure and arrival times in both directions between BZZ and MPN were listed in the OAG as being the same for both the nonstop flight and the one stop service via Ascension Island! Something not quite right there.....and, of course, there has never been nonstop service between Brize Norton and Mount Pleasant to the best of my knowledge.

Curious to know which airline is currently flying the BZZ-ASI-MPN route and with what type of equipment. Also, do these flights still receive a fighter escort inbound to Mount Pleasant? Now that would be something I'd like to see!

BTW, a good friend of mine from Houston has taken the BZZ-ASI-MPN flight as he was in the Falklands on business specifically with regard to helicopter support matters concerning offshore oil exploration in the area. He stated that the most expedient route for him involved flying from IAH to LHR followed by a ground transfer to Brize Norton and then the long flight to Mount Pleasant via Ascension Island......
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Old Apr 21, 13, 11:18 am
  #2594  
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Howdy from the eastern Mojave Desert, here in Needles, CA. Yesterday I drove old Route 66 over Sitgreaves Pass to Kingman, AZ where I paid a visit to the Kingman Airport - a major airliner storage/scrapyard. Although no new aircraft appear to have been added since my last visit in September, the entire lot of DHL 727-100s (about 15 of them) has either been moved or more likely scrapped. Also, all of the bright yellow DHL DC-8-73s have had their engines removed. On to San Diego later this morning via Joshua Tree National Park.

So - let's have a try at question 2:

2) This airline was operating weekly nonstop service between Houston (IAH) and Roatan, Honduras (RTB). Identify the air carrier and the equipment it operated on the route.

I would think SAHSA (Stay At Home - Stay Alive) would be the choice here, operating a 737 of some type - probably a -200. If not SAHSA, then TACA (Take A Coffin Along).
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Old Apr 21, 13, 3:33 pm
  #2595  
 
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Originally Posted by Seat 2A View Post
Howdy from the eastern Mojave Desert, here in Needles, CA. Yesterday I drove old Route 66 over Sitgreaves Pass to Kingman, AZ where I paid a visit to the Kingman Airport - a major airliner storage/scrapyard. Although no new aircraft appear to have been added since my last visit in September, the entire lot of DHL 727-100s (about 15 of them) has either been moved or more likely scrapped. Also, all of the bright yellow DHL DC-8-73s have had their engines removed. On to San Diego later this morning via Joshua Tree National Park.

So - let's have a try at question 2:

2) This airline was operating weekly nonstop service between Houston (IAH) and Roatan, Honduras (RTB). Identify the air carrier and the equipment it operated on the route.

I would think SAHSA (Stay At Home - Stay Alive) would be the choice here, operating a 737 of some type - probably a -200. If not SAHSA, then TACA (Take A Coffin Along).
SAHSA with once a week single class Boeing 737-200 service into Roatan (RTB) from Houston (IAH) is correct! Here's the southbound schedule....

SH 517: IAH-RTB-SAP-TGU Op: Saturdays only

As mentioned earlier, SAHSA was also flying weekly 73S service nonstop between MSY and RTB at this time.

And SH was operating daily single plane 73S flights between MIA at RTB as well. Two stop service was operated every day except on Sundays via Belize City (BZE) and San Pedro Sula (SAP) with the flight continuing on to La Ceiba (LCE). On Sundays, only one stop was made between MIA and RTB at SAP......
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