Seat 2A

Seat 2A

Here are a couple of photos related to the old K or Economy Class service. As WHBM has noted, the fares were often associated with Hawaii flights but they were widely offered out of Denver by UA, CO and WA. I don't recall ever seeing them offered on RW, SO, NC, OZ, TI etc. Back in the pre-deregulation days, you didn't see the alphabet soup of fare types that are offered today. For the average traveler, it was F,Y, K. There were Military fares and I even recall seeing Z denoting a stand-by fare in some markets.



Seattle to Denver schedule from 1970 OAG



Continental Ad featuring 5 across seating in Coach and Economy Classes

jlemon

Hey Seat 2A!

It appears the LA Times article you refer to actually says that American acquired AirCal which means that Resort Commuter Airlines was not purchased by AA....

At least, that's the way I read it, which means my answer was incorrect (sound of a loud and obnoxious buzzer followed by the oldtimer contestant being ignominiously pulled offstage by a large hook).....

Seat 2A

That's ME being pulled off stage for misreading that article. I've tried to find a picture of a 580 (or any Convair) in Resort Commuter livery but so far to no avail. I know American Eagle did operate some Convairs - in Texas? Also, was there any affiliation with Aspen on its California routes?

WHBM

The Resort Commuter Convair 580s were

N5810, N5812, N90857 leased from a dealer mid- to end- 1988

http://www.airlinefan.com/airline-ph.../CV-580/N5810/

(scroll down)

then N73301 leased from Sierra Pacific throughout 1989

Indelaware

I believe that the only American Eagle carrier to operate Convair 580s was Metro Airlines (originally Houston Metro Airlines). In 1982, Metro purchased 14 580s from FL and placed them in service under American Eagle. Metro failed in 1993 and their assetts were purchased by AMR Corporation and the birds continued to fly as American Eagle.

tonywestsider

One of the U.S. carriers, I believe, was PA. The 747 route was SFO-LAX. The PA 747 that I was flying on, originated in LHR, then flew via polar route to the west coast. The scheduled route was LHR-SFO-LAX, but we were in a 747-100 with limited range and we encountered headwinds flying westbound so we had to make an extra refueling stop in SEA, then continue onto SFO and then finally to LAX. This flight accepted "Conditional Stopover Traffic" between SFO to LAX.

WHBM

There was also an operation based at San Jose, California, in the late 1980s, where the Convairs were operated by Sierra Pacific Airlines. I rode one from Burbank to SJC and return in 1988. It's described in a quiz question at post #805 above.

Both Pan Am and TWA operated the 747-100 from London to SFO/LAX, but British Airways refused to do so, feeling they were beyond the aircraft's reliable nonstop range. The midday departures in the 1970s-80s of the two US airlines' California-bound flights at MTOW, bearing in mind the reliability of he old JT9D engines, were regarded with some concern by Heathrow ATC, especially on hot days when operations were easterly, heading out initially over the city. One, barely-climbing, was described as leaving "by the Piccadilly Line" (the London Underground Heathrow line which runs this way), while a Pan Am one, likewise inspecting the gardens closely, was referred to over the radio as a "Hedge Clipper". I wonder if the PA crew got the joke.

tonywestsider

WHBM,
Thank you for your fine history of polar route 747s flying out of LHR. I absolutely remember the PA 747 that I was on taking off from LHR was just like you said, the "Hedge Clipper".

I remember we "flew dirty" for many minutes after take-off. In other words, the flaps were at 20 degrees long after take-off from LHR, as we slowly gained altitude. Ah, what memories...

jlemon

Indeed, I remember seeing an American Eagle Convair 580 at Burbank. This was back when AA was operating a hub at San Jose.....

jlemon

With regard to a possible affiliation between Aspen and AA in California, I do not recall this. I believe that Aspen operated independently in California and the primary reason was service to Lake Tahoe (TVL) which was accomplished with Convair 580 equipment. Aspen also flew LAX-Bakersfield (BFL) with a CV-580 at one point and even flew between LAX and BUR as an extension of the TVL service.

I also do not think that Aspen ever operated the BAe 146 into TVL......

jlemon

I believe the Metroflight division of Metro actually operated the Convair 580 aircraft as American Eagle. Metro originally set up Metroflight to operate de Havilland DHC-6 Twin Otter equipment with routes from DFW and OKC to various small cities in north Texas and Oklahoma. The Metroflight operation complimented the Houston Metro/Metro Twin Otter operation in southeast Texas. Metro also began operating Short 330 aircraft on such routes as IAH-BPT, IAH-LCH and IAH-LFT.

During my high school years, we lived in the Clear Lake area near the NASA Johnson Space Center. I followed Houston Metro/Metro/Metroflight operation quite closely and flew on the Houston Metro/Metro Twin Otter shuttle service a number of times between the Clear Lake City STOLport (CLC) and IAH. And as I previously mentioned awhile back, at one point Metro was operating up to 22 roundtrip flights per day with the Twin Otter between CLC and IAH according to the OAG at the time....

Seat 2A

Tony, SFO-LAX was indeed one of the routes. Remember, by 1988 we were ten years into deregulation so Pan Am was able to carry local traffic on this route. My first ever flight aboard a 747SP came aboard Pan Am in 1979. I bought a standby fare for $13.00 and off we went.

That leaves just one more intra-state route...

jlemon

Presidential Airways. This new start-up was headed by Harold "Hap" Pareti who had been with PEOPLExpress.

Presidential went on to fly BAe 146-200, BAe Jetstream 31 and 32, Beechcraft 1900C and de Havilland Canada DHC-8-300 aircraft. At one point, it operated codeshare feeder services for Continental and United.

And another new entrant bit the dust......

Seat 2A

jlemon, your answer's got my vote.

I was once booked on a Presidential Airways flight but my inbound flight on a different airline was late and I midded my chance. Another late flight caused me to miss my chance to fly an Arrow Air DC-8 in the mid-eighties.

Speaking of flights aboard secondary airlines that I did manage to successfully connect to, here's a bonus question:

Back in the fall of 1984 I did a combination plane and train trip that involved flights aboard six airlines I'd never flown before. I'll supply you with the city pairs and see if you can fill in the blanks as to the airline and aircraft flown. Remember, none of the airlines involved were majors, and only one of them is still flying today.

After flying from Los Angeles into Phoenix aboard an America West 737-130, I made my way north to Las Vegas where we'll begin the question:

19 SEP Las Vegas to Ontario ~ Airline:_____________________ Aircraft:____________________
25 SEP Seattle to Pasco ~ Airline:_____________________ Aircraft:____________________ (Hint: I flew on a prop)
25 SEP Pasco to Seattle ~ Airline:_____________________ Aircraft:____________________ (Hint: The leased jet involved was on short term lease.)
07 OCT Miami to St. Petersburg ~ Airline:_____________________ Aircraft:____________________
07 OCT St. Petersburg to Orlando ~ Airline:_____________________ Aircraft:____________________
18 OCT St. Louis to Kansas City ~ Airline:_____________________ Aircraft:____________________