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Old Timer's Airline Quiz and Discussion

Old Timer's Airline Quiz and Discussion

Old Mar 18, 13, 8:17 am
  #2401  
 
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Originally Posted by Seat 2A View Post
18. Name the six airlines that operated nonstop flights between Miami and Port Au Prince. Win the admiration of airline geeks everywhere if you can also identify the aircraft used by each airline...
OK, here's seven to pick from: Air France (727), American (727), Eastern (AB3), Antillean Airlines (LM) (MD-80), PanAm (727), Surinam Airways (PY) (DC-8), and Haiti Trans Air (TV) (727).
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Old Mar 18, 13, 2:55 pm
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Originally Posted by Seat 2A View Post

17. You want to fly First Class aboard a 747 nonstop between Toronto and Seattle. What airline do you call?
Good Afternoon All!

Well, it has been a busy three weeks of business and vacation travel for yours truly to include flights into and out of LFT, DFW, IAH, LAS, MCO, MIA and TPA as well as Barbados (BGI) which is the home of a retired Concorde SST that is now on display. The best flight of the series was in the front cabin of the international version of an AA B757-223 configured with sleeper seats and AVOD (I believe American refers to this aircraft as a 75L) from Miami to Barbados. Great service! :-::-::-::-:

And further adventures were embarked upon from Barbados in the form of a vacation sailing trip in the Caribbean to Bequia, Grenada, Martinique, St. Lucia, St. Vincent and Union Island as well as various islands in the Tobago Cays region of the Grenadine island chain. All in all, a great trip although I caught a cold at the end of it which I'm still suffering from!

So with that, let me try my hand at the above question:

17. Thai (TG). I believe the SEA-YYZ flight was an extension of TG's transpacific service from Bangkok (BKK).
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Old Mar 18, 13, 3:32 pm
  #2403  
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Originally Posted by jlemon View Post
Well, it has been a busy three weeks of business and vacation travel for yours truly to include flights into and out of LFT, DFW, IAH, LAS, MCO, MIA and TPA as well as Barbados (BGI) which is the home of a retired Concorde SST that is now on display. The best flight of the series was in the front cabin of the international version of an AA B757-223 configured with sleeper seats and AVOD (I believe American refers to this aircraft as a 75L) from Miami to Barbados. Great service! :-::-::-::-:

And further adventures were embarked upon from Barbados in the form of a vacation sailing trip in the Caribbean to Bequia, Grenada, Martinique, St. Lucia, St. Vincent and Union Island as well as various islands in the Tobago Cays region of the Grenadine island chain. All in all, a great trip although I caught a cold at the end of it which I'm still suffering from!
Welcome home, jlemon!

I didn't know that AA had reconfigured any of its 757s for an International style First Class seat. Have you flown aboard CO/UA's or Delta's? How does it compare?

Sorry to hear about your cold! I've been having a marvelous time of late getting people all riled up over on another thread regarding a similar topic. They're not very happy with me over there but it's nothing a couple bottles of Robitussin won't assuage!

As to sitting in that 747 First Class cabin between Seattle and Toronto, you are indeed correct! Thai International it was, offering as fine a service as could be found over North American skies at that time. I have an old menu from that flight (It's in storage) that looks spectacular. First Class passengers should definitely bring their appetites!
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Old Mar 18, 13, 3:48 pm
  #2404  
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Originally Posted by miniliq View Post
OK, here's seven to pick from: Air France (727), American (727), Eastern (AB3), Antillean Airlines (LM) (MD-80), PanAm (727), Surinam Airways (PY) (DC-8), and Haiti Trans Air (TV) (727).
Jeez, miniliq, that is impressive! Did you just come up with that off the top of your head? Now I'm gonna have to ask you to be more specific with regard to what type of 727 and DC-8 we're talking about here...

Alright then, you're correct on all the airlines except American. Good job! As to the aircraft, here we go:

Air France: 727-200
ALM: DC-9-80
Eastern: A300B
Pan Am: 727-200
Haiti Trans Air: 727-100
Surinam Airways: DC-8-63

By the way, I just happened to notice that you'd correctly answered the quetion about Thai International at the bottom of the page preceding that of our esteemed co-participant jlemon. So, you're both correct but miniliq gets the brownie points.

Last edited by Seat 2A; Mar 18, 13 at 4:09 pm
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Old Mar 18, 13, 4:07 pm
  #2405  
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Originally Posted by Wally Bird View Post
Add Global International to 747 TATL.
SFO-HNL L-1011: Total Air.
Good call on Global International, Wally. I was wondering if anyone would get the answer on the other L-1011 operator between SFO and HNL. Total Air, while not exactly correct, is close enough. Here's why:

Total Air started TriStar operations with a single L-1011 in July 1984 and added another in September of the same year. These just happened to be the first two TriStars delivered to Delta. In November 1986 Total Air changed their name to Air America.

Thus, in 1988 Air America flew between SFO and HNL. They also flew their L-1011s to Hawaii out of LAX as well as operating them out of DTW to LAS and LAX.
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Old Mar 18, 13, 4:35 pm
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Originally Posted by Seat 2A View Post
Welcome home, jlemon!

I didn't know that AA had reconfigured any of its 757s for an International style First Class seat. Have you flown aboard CO/UA's or Delta's? How does it compare?

Sorry to hear about your cold! I've been having a marvelous time of late getting people all riled up over on another thread regarding a similar topic. They're not very happy with me over there but it's nothing a couple bottles of Robitussin won't assuage!

As to sitting in that 747 First Class cabin between Seattle and Toronto, you are indeed correct! Thai International it was, offering as fine a service as could be found over North American skies at that time. I have an old menu from that flight (It's in storage) that looks spectacular. First Class passengers should definitely bring their appetites!
Hey-hey Seat 2A!

American operates a considerable number of B757 aircraft, of course; however, I believe only 18 of this aircraft type have the 75L international configuration. So it is a bit of a rare bird in the AA fleet. I learned about this configuration over in the American forum here on FlyerTalk.....

The B757-200 formerly operated by Continental is the only airplane I have to compare with the AA 75L. All of the CO 752 aircraft were configured with BusinessFirst (BF) cabins prior to the merger with UA (and note that the CO B757-300s all had standard domestic first class cabins). CO primarily used these aircraft for thin TATL routes between EWR and western Europe although they would also show up on other international services as well as on domestic routes (such as LAX-EWR and IAH-ANC). I've flown on the CO B757-200 LAX-IAH, SXM-EWR and also on several other routes - it was a very nice ride in the front BF cabin!

Last edited by jlemon; Mar 18, 13 at 7:28 pm Reason: Correction concerning number of 75L aircraft in AA fleet
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Old Mar 18, 13, 5:03 pm
  #2407  
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Here's what's left of the questions issued three days ago:

2. What was “The Lavender Hill Monster”?

4. What is a “Cooper vane”? ANSWERED

5. This airline’s first flights were with 737-200s between Washington Dulles and Boston in 1985. ANSWERED

6. What was the Council Club?

8. In the 1970s, some U.S. airlines offered both Coach and Economy Class service on the same flights. What was the difference between these classes? ANSWERED

9. What did FAA regulations of the early 1960s require of U.S. airliners with a MTOW over 80,000 pounds?

The following eight questions are all based upon schedules published in the May 15, 1988 OAG

14. For those flying the only nonstop between Birmingham and Orlando, both the airline and the aircraft it operated were surprising. Identify both. ANSWERED

15. Name three scheduled airlines that operated their jet(s) over only a single route. That is to say that the airline’s entire scheduled route network comprised only a single route. What the heck – name the aircraft involved as well if you like.

16. This airline operated the only Convair 580 service between Phoenix and San Diego ANSWERED

19. There were two intrastate flights operated with 747s. What were the routes and the airline that operated them? HALFWAY ANSWERED

Last edited by Seat 2A; Mar 23, 13 at 6:21 pm
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Old Mar 18, 13, 6:21 pm
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Originally Posted by Seat 2A View Post

8. In the 1970s, some U.S. airlines offered both Coach and Economy Class service on the same flights. What was the difference between these classes?
I'll take a guess at this one based on memory.....

Back in the 70's, it was not uncommon to see the following class of service designations in the Official Airline Guide (OAG): F/Y/K with F being first class, Y being coach and K being economy.

An example of this "F/Y/K" service can be found in the February 1, 1976 edition of the OAG for flights between Los Angeles (LAX) and Honolulu (HNL). CO, NW, PA, UA and WA all offered "F/Y/K" service on the route with CO and WA operating DC-10 equipment, and NW, PA and UA flying B747 aircraft.

However, I believe the only difference between Y and K was the fare as K was less expensive than Y. In most cases, I think that both Y and K passengers flew in the same coach cabin.

Western was also flying Boeing 720B equipment between LAX and HNL as part of their U.S. mainland-Hawaii "Islander" service at this time. The class of service designation for these WA flights was "Y/K". I believe these Western 720Bs were actually configured with all coach seating with no first class section so the only difference was the cost of the fare for Y vs. K.....
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Old Mar 18, 13, 8:45 pm
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Originally Posted by Seat 2A View Post
4. What is a “Cooper vane”?
A small airfoil mounted on the ventral airstairs of Boeing 727s to prevent them from being opened in flight. Named after Dan Cooper who jumped from a NW 727 after receiving a hijack ransom and who allegedly was never seen again. Nor was the money.

I don't remember ever seeing an AF 727 at MIA, but upon research ([i]aka[/i[ cheating) they did indeed use them for a while.
1947-2007 AIR FRANCE CELEBRATES 60 YEARS OF PRESENCE
IN THE FRENCH CARIBBEAN AND IN FRENCH GUYANA

The regional Air France network was created in August 1947.
Until 1952, the flight to Cayenne was operated on request from the Caribbean: the absence of airfield
imposed the use of Catalina seaplanes.
In 1953, the first regular flight to Cayenne was launched from the Caribbean, once a week, in a
Douglas DC3, via Port of Spain, Georgetown and Paramaribo.
In 1967, the Caravelle aircraft was launched and the regional network extended then until Miami, via
Pointe-à-Pitre, San Juan and Saint-Martin.
In 1970, Air Guadeloupe was created. It reinforced and completed the small distance flights operated
by the national company. Air France held 45% of Air Guadeloupe.
The regional maintenance center was created in Pointe-à-Pitre that same year.
The modernization of the network continued with the Boeing 731 in 1973, the Boeing 727 in 1980, the
Boeing 737-300 in 1991 and the Airbus A320 in 2001.
Since 2007 the regional network serves, from north to south : Miami, Port-au-Prince, Pointe-à-Pitre,
Fort-de-France and Cayenne.
In November 2007, Air France will strengthen its regional network with a second A320 and by opening
three new destinations : Paramaribo, Santo-Domingo and Saint-Martin.
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Old Mar 18, 13, 10:08 pm
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Originally Posted by jlemon View Post
I'll take a guess at this one based on memory.....

Back in the 70's, it was not uncommon to see the following class of service designations in the Official Airline Guide (OAG): F/Y/K with F being first class, Y being coach and K being economy.

An example of this "F/Y/K" service can be found in the February 1, 1976 edition of the OAG for flights between Los Angeles (LAX) and Honolulu (HNL). CO, NW, PA, UA and WA all offered "F/Y/K" service on the route with CO and WA operating DC-10 equipment, and NW, PA and UA flying B747 aircraft.

However, I believe the only difference between Y and K was the fare as K was less expensive than Y. In most cases, I think that both Y and K passengers flew in the same coach cabin.

Western was also flying Boeing 720B equipment between LAX and HNL as part of their U.S. mainland-Hawaii "Islander" service at this time. The class of service designation for these WA flights was "Y/K". I believe these Western 720Bs were actually configured with all coach seating with no first class section so the only difference was the cost of the fare for Y vs. K.....
Welcome back, Mr. jlemon!

In looking through some of the 1960's National Airlines timetables, Mr. Maytag had also configured NA's fleet with their own version of Y and K class, with several coach names such as, "Day Coach" versus "Night Coach" versus Economy. I concur. It seems to me the only difference between the coach class versus the economy class was the fare and that the coach fares were at different scales according to time of day.

Later in the 1970s, TWA, I think, went a step further to counter the lounge competition coming from the Coach Lounges of AA's 747s and DC-10 LuxuryLiners, and 707 LuxuryJets. TWA added a lounge in the mid-coach section of their 707s. I stand to be corrected but I thought they called this portion of their coach class, "Ambassador Class" but I wasn't sure if TW meant this to be an early version of business class.
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Old Mar 18, 13, 10:40 pm
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Originally Posted by jlemon View Post
8. In the 1970s, some U.S. airlines offered both Coach and Economy Class service on the same flights. What was the difference between these services?

I'll take a guess at this one based on memory.....

Back in the 70's, it was not uncommon to see the following class of service designations in the Official Airline Guide (OAG): F/Y/K with F being first class, Y being coach and K being economy.

An example of this "F/Y/K" service can be found in the February 1, 1976 edition of the OAG for flights between Los Angeles (LAX) and Honolulu (HNL). CO, NW, PA, UA and WA all offered "F/Y/K" service on the route with CO and WA operating DC-10 equipment, and NW, PA and UA flying B747 aircraft.

However, I believe the only difference between Y and K was the fare as K was less expensive than Y. In most cases, I think that both Y and K passengers flew in the same coach cabin.

Western was also flying Boeing 720B equipment between LAX and HNL as part of their U.S. mainland-Hawaii "Islander" service at this time. The class of service designation for these WA flights was "Y/K". I believe these Western 720Bs were actually configured with all coach seating with no first class section so the only difference was the cost of the fare for Y vs. K.....
This one I can answer from personal experience, both as a ticket agent selling the fares and as a passenger.

You are correct about the F, Y and K designations. After that however, there were some differences. Principally, Economy Class fares were lower than coach fares and Economy Class travelers didn't get a complimentary meal.

I once flew K class on a United 727-100 between LAX and DEN. Being a narrow bodied aircraft with a single coach cabin, we could sit wherever we liked. The only differentiation in seating was related to smoking vs. nonsmoking seats. I believe the fare was about $10.00 less.

In June of 1971 I also flew K Class on Continental's 747 from ORD to DEN. We were limited to the rear cabin (The Micronesia Room) and not allowed into the forward Coach cabins or lounge. Interestingly, "we" consisted of just three of us. Whereas a meal was offered up in Coach, we weren't offered one, even to buy. Perhaps because the domestic flights were shorter, the meal purchase option available on Hawaii flights was not offered.

On Hawaii flights, the airlines advertised Economy Class flights for less money but otherwise offering the same seating as Coach. As previously mentioned, you could buy a meal on board. While Continental had a separate cabin for Economy, aboard Western's narrow bodied Boeings it would have been sit wherever. I will do a search for an old ad promoting the three services to Hawaii and if I find it I'll post it.

In the meantime, check out the Continental 747 picture I submitted a few posts back and you'll note that Continental designates the Ponape Lounge as being exclusively for Economy passengers.

4. What is a “Cooper vane”?

A small airfoil mounted on the ventral airstairs of Boeing 727s to prevent them from being opened in flight. Named after Dan Cooper who jumped from a NW 727 after receiving a hijack ransom and who allegedly was never seen again. Nor was the money.

Way to go, Wally! That's it to a "T".

Originally Posted by tonywestsider
Later in the 1970s, TWA, I think, went a step further to counter the lounge competition coming from the Coach Lounges of AA's 747s and DC-10 LuxuryLiners, and 707 LuxuryJets. TWA added a lounge in the mid-coach section of their 707s. I stand to be corrected but I thought they called this portion of their coach class, "Ambassador Class" but I wasn't sure if TW meant this to be an early version of business class.
Tony, back in the early seventies I used to fly TWA 707s and United DC-8s between Denver and New York. To the best of my memory, First Class was referred to as Royal Ambassador Class. I don't remember Coach carrying any particular brand name but I don't think it would have been merely "Ambassador" class as all ambassadors were usually pretty special and to have a Royal Ambassador and then a lesser merely regular ambassador just doesn't sound quite right. That said, I do seem to remember some of TWA's longer flights being referred to as Ambassador Service flights, so who knows - maybe there was an Ambassador Coach Class service on those longhauls. I'll see if I can find anything and let you know.

Getting back to TWA's 707 lounge, so far as I know they were the only airline ever to offer a full sized coach lounge (as opposed to a small table and seats in the rear of the cabin) complete with bar aboard their 707s. I had the good fortune to fly aboard a lounge equipped 707 in March of 1972 between Denver and JFK. I believe only the shorter domestic 707-131s were so configured as opposed to the longer range 707-331B/Cs as coach lounges probably violated some international bilateral agreements against such things. Here's a picture:



TWA's mid-cabin 707 Coach Lounge

Last edited by Seat 2A; Mar 18, 13 at 11:56 pm
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Old Mar 19, 13, 12:25 am
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Originally Posted by seat 2a View Post
here's what's left of the questions issued three days ago:

16. This airline operated the only convair 580 service between phoenix and san diego

19. There were two intrastate flights operated with 747s. What were the routes and the airline that operated them?
16. Fl

19. Qf lax-sfo?
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Old Mar 19, 13, 5:25 am
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F/Y/K fare classes

These came along in the 1960s and always seemed to be associated with the Hawaii routes from the US mainland. I understand there was no catering (something which US carriers seem to have gone back to ). However, I believe the first such route was New York to San Juan, in 1960, when Pan Am had just introduced 707s with the normal F/Y seating, but also still operated DC-6Bs on some flights which were at a lower fare than on the jets, giving three fare classes. Subsequently these passengers were accommodated at the back of the 707s instead of having separate aircraft.

I've sometimes wondered why Y is called Coach in the USA but Economy in the rest of the world

1947-2007 AIR FRANCE CELEBRATES 60 YEARS
Wally, the only type that seems missing from the list here of Air France Caribbean aircraft types is the DC4, which operated there for many years for most of the 1950s and well into the 1960s. Air France had a large and longstanding DC4 fleet back home, they lasted until about 1976 in the fleet, way after most other mainstream carriers had got rid of them, latterly they operated the overnight internal Air Mail services within France which Air France ran. I presume they were finally done in by the oil price increases of 1974.
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Old Mar 19, 13, 8:33 am
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Originally Posted by Seat 2A View Post

14. For those flying the only nonstop between Birmingham and Orlando, both the airline and the aircraft it operated were surprising. Identify both.

16. This airline operated the only Convair 580 service between Phoenix and San Diego.
14. Well, I was tempted to say Florida Express with BAC One-Eleven service. However....

I believe by May 15, 1988, Florida Express had been acquired by the second version of Braniff. So perhaps Braniff II was flying BHM-MCO nonstop with the BAC One-Eleven. And the service may have actually been operated by "Braniff Express".....

16. Here's a wild guess: American Eagle
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Old Mar 19, 13, 10:29 am
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Originally Posted by Indelaware View Post
16. This airline operated the only convair 580 service between Phoenix and San Diego

FL

Remember, we're talking about schedules from 1988. Frontier had declared bankruptcy in 1986 after having been absorbed into People Express the year before. Continental ended up taking over both airlines.

19. There were two intrastate flights operated with 747s. What were the routes and the airline that operated them?

QF lax-sfo?

Although there were a couple of foreign carriers that operated between U.S. cities, none of them were allowed to carry passengers except perhaps passengers ticketed on that airline to a destination beyond U.S. borders and making an enroute stopover. Many schedules reflect this with the term "Conditional Stopover Traffic".

In this case, the answer I'm looking for would involve U.S. airlines

Last edited by Seat 2A; Mar 19, 13 at 11:55 am
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