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Old Timer's Airline Quiz and Discussion.

Old Timer's Airline Quiz and Discussion.

Old Jun 28, 2020, 8:35 am
  #19501  
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Originally Posted by WHBM
Air Florida was still running commuter flights in January 1984, they didn't get rid of them fully until later in the year. They had a wide range of operators, but Cessna 421 and Nord 262 flights were still being organised by them, in Air Florida livery. I'd go for the former aircraft type for such a high frequency operation. Witham Field was a longstanding Grumman (plus other aerospace majors) assembly plant, like other North-East manufacturers they developed a Florida operation, not complete aircraft assembly but major structures and subcontracting, and better weather for test flying. I believe parts for the Boeing 777 even were built there.
I think you may be right with regard to the Air Florida service from Stuart actually being operated by a commuter affiliate via a code sharing arrangement. Nowhere in the referenced Air Florida timetable is this stated (most airlines apparently did make reference to commuter code share flights operated with prop or turboprop equipment in their respective timetables); however, we may not be seeing the entire QH timetable via the departedflights.com website and I do not have access to a January 1984 OAG. The Jan. 1, 1984 Air Florida timetable does make reference to the British Island Airways feeder service (which I think was flown with a BAC One-Eleven that may have had an additional small Air Florida title on the aircraft) between London and various cities in Europe but there is no mention of commuter operations - at least in those portions of the Air Florida timetable which appear in departedflights.com. And it appears in researching this quiz item I may have been misled by a statement in the wikipedia article concerning Witham Field (SUA ) in which it is stated that Air Florida operated jet service from Stuart...... which may not be correct.
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Old Jun 28, 2020, 11:54 am
  #19502  
 
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This article, although not precise for routes, describes the somewhat surprising variety of Air Florida Commuter routes and aircraft, quite a number being described as running into 1984. They do seem to have insisted on the aircraft getting their livery. They seem to have had one of everything.

https://www.sunshineskies.com/afc.html
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Old Jun 29, 2020, 8:31 pm
  #19503  
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Originally Posted by jlemon

Please limit your response to two quiz items a day so that all may participate. And as always we are looking for complete and decisive answers here.

3. You've had lovely sailing adventure in the late spring of 1969 and the catamaran is now moored at a marina in Bilbao on the north coast of Spain. During breakfast at the yacht club a message is delivered requesting your presence at a Thursday morning meeting in London....which is tomorrow. You quickly ascertain there is a nonstop afternoon departure operating three days a week from Bilbao to London which meets your schedule.....although the airline agent then tells you that depending on the specific day of the flight one of two different aircraft types are operated on this route with one of them arriving into London 40 minutes before the other one with the departure time for both types being the same from Bilbao. "So which airplane will I be traveling on?" you ask the agent and the response is, "Well, we honestly don't know yet. We're still waiting for the specific equipment to be assigned to the flight. But have no fear, we shall get you to London all the same, sir!" Name the airline you will be flying with, both aircraft types and the London airport you will arrive into. ANSWERED

5. It's 1979 and you've just attended a wonderful wedding in Napa in northern California and now must journey to Fort Lauderdale in order to check out a sailboat that's for sail...er...sale. You've also found an early morning flight departing from the nearest airport to Napa that has mainline jet service with this service operating daily and two stops being made en route. Name the airport you will be departing from, the airline, both stops and the aircraft.

The next three quiz items have a time line of 1980.....

7. The meeting in Los Angeles on a Friday morning has gone extremely well and you have now been awarded a new consulting contract. And then you hear this in the client's boardroom: "We want you to journey to the project site in Jujuy as soon as reasonably possible." Ah.....what? Where? "Jujuy. It's in South America. We're sure you'll be able find it and get there straight away. Good luck and congratulations!" Sure enough you find Jujuy and quickly ascertain that two different airlines and a connection will be required to get there. Your first flight only operates on Saturdays nonstop to your connecting city where you will have two hours and 15 minutes to connect. Your second flight also operates only on Saturdays and makes one stop en route. Name both air carriers and the different equipment they respectively operate on each flight, the connecting airport and the en route stop made by the second flight. The first flight was not operated by JAL, the aircraft type wasn't a 747 and the connection was not made at GRU. The second flight was operated by Aerolineas Argentinas with a 707....but the stop was not made at EZE.

9. If you wanted to fly on board a Boeing 747 to Paris Charles de Gaulle from London Heathrow at this time, you could do so but only once a week. Name the air carrier. It wasn't Avianca

10. You are in Cardiff in Wales and need to travel to Paris via Charles de Gaulle. You've found a morning flight that operates three days a week which makes one intermediate stop en route. Identify the airline, the stop and the aircraft. ANSWERED

13. You are in Boston in 1984 and are on your way to San Diego on board an interesting daily flight which will make four stops en route. Name the air carrier, all four stops in order and the equipment.

The next three quiz items have a time line of 1985.....

16. You've had enjoyable time skiing with some old friends at the Bogus Basin ski resort just north of Boise. Now you're off to New Orleans for a very special birthday dinner with a very special lady friend at Muriel's restaurant on Jackson Square in the French Quarter. Better yet, you've found a daily direct flight from BOI which makes two stops en route. Identify the air carrier, both stops and the equipment. It wasn't Continental, the aircraft wasn't a DC9-30 and one of the stops wasn't IAH....although this flight did stop at DEN.

17. From New Orleans you've journeyed to Philadelphia for a business meeting which has gone well. And then you get a call from your New Orleans lady friend: "Hey! I'm in Palm Springs! Why don't you fly out here and I'll buy you dinner!" You want to inquire about the wine list....but you wisely decide not to and then quickly research your flight. Ah, here's a direct two stop flight departing PHL the next morning which will get you into PSP in plenty of time before dinner. Name the airline, both stops and the aircraft. ANSWERED

18. Now you are in New York City and are heading to Denver. You're in no big hurry and have found a daily flight which makes two stops en route. You book a seat in first class. Identify the airport you will depart from in the New York City area, the air carrier, both stops and the equipment. ANSWERED
Slowly but surely we continue to make headway here on the good ol' OTAQ&D......

Last edited by jlemon; Jul 1, 2020 at 6:10 pm Reason: answer updates
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Old Jun 30, 2020, 3:53 am
  #19504  
 
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3. You've had lovely sailing adventure in the late spring of 1969 and the catamaran is now moored at a marina in Bilbao on the north coast of Spain. During breakfast at the yacht club a message is delivered requesting your presence at a Thursday morning meeting in London....which is tomorrow. You quickly ascertain there is a nonstop afternoon departure operating three days a week from Bilbao to London which meets your schedule.....although the airline agent then tells you that depending on the specific day of the flight one of two different aircraft types are operated on this route with one of them arriving into London 40 minutes before the other one with the departure time for both types being the same from Bilbao. "So which airplane will I be traveling on?" you ask the agent and the response is, "Well, we honestly don't know yet. We're still waiting for the specific equipment to be assigned to the flight. But have no fear, we shall get you to London all the same, sir!" Name the airline you will be flying with, both aircraft types and the London airport you will arrive into.
This will be our old friends Barnby, Keegan and Stevens, alias BKS, running into Heathrow. Interesting little airline, started off as ever at Southend, then moved its focus to North-East England from where they ran trunk routes to Southend initially, and then moved to Heathrow, one of the few UK independents to go there. BEA progressively bought more and more of their shares until they were wholly owned. They also did holiday flights from their bases, after British Eagle folded they were the only such operator still using Heathrow.

Getting the first of several Airspeed Ambassadors from BEA in the 1950s, they started a route Newcastle-Heathrow-Biarritz in France- Bilbao and Santender in Spain-Oporto in Portugal, a classic "crumbs from the table" of places BEA chose not to serve. Over time this evolved into a few direct routes, and that's where their London-Bilbao operation came from. BKS later got some Bristol Britannias from BOAC, and Viscounts from BEA, and those became the mainstay of the Bilbao and other runs in the 1960s.

We can rarely get a British question of the era without Channel Airways muscling in somehow, and here we go again. They ordered five Tridents for 1968, bizarrely, took two, and then couldn't pay for the other three (figures ...), so Hawker Siddeley were left with them on their hands. Eventually, given BEA's partial ownership by this time, two were sold to BKS, and introduced in 1969. I can imagine that the BKS spring timetable, passed to OAG with a lead time probably in months, didn't know when the changeover was going to happen, so would say Trident or Britannia for the flight. I've had a quick look in my resources, it say that Tridents came onto the London-Newcastle run in April, but first usage to Bilbao was not until November. Knowing BKS high aircraft utilisation my guess would be that it had been doing summer holiday flights from Heathrow to Palma or Malaga instead. I wouldn't be surprised if some Viscounts got used on the Bilbao route as well from time to time.

BKS standard approach with the Heathrow-based Trident was an early morning business flight to Newcastle and back, then a late morning flight southwards, either the Bilbao schedule or a holiday flight somewhere. Back for tea (sorry, British expression), a second business day trip to Newcastle and back, then a late evening flight to the Mediterranean and back, returning just at sunrise next morning, and repeat. The Newcastle-based one did much the same.

Following year, by now wholly owned by BEA, the airline got into a legal dispute with former owner Mike Keegan who objected to the K in the airline name, him, still being there, so they changed name to Northeast, with a new yellow livery. I wonder how long it took Northeast in the US to realise that someone was imitating their Yellowbirds. This only lasted a few years, then they were folded into the British Airways brand.
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Old Jun 30, 2020, 8:25 am
  #19505  
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Originally Posted by WHBM
This will be our old friends Barnby, Keegan and Stevens, alias BKS, running into Heathrow. Interesting little airline, started off as ever at Southend, then moved its focus to North-East England from where they ran trunk routes to Southend initially, and then moved to Heathrow, one of the few UK independents to go there. BEA progressively bought more and more of their shares until they were wholly owned. They also did holiday flights from their bases, after British Eagle folded they were the only such operator still using Heathrow.

Getting the first of several Airspeed Ambassadors from BEA in the 1950s, they started a route Newcastle-Heathrow-Biarritz in France- Bilbao and Santender in Spain-Oporto in Portugal, a classic "crumbs from the table" of places BEA chose not to serve. Over time this evolved into a few direct routes, and that's where their London-Bilbao operation came from. BKS later got some Bristol Britannias from BOAC, and Viscounts from BEA, and those became the mainstay of the Bilbao and other runs in the 1960s.

We can rarely get a British question of the era without Channel Airways muscling in somehow, and here we go again. They ordered five Tridents for 1968, bizarrely, took two, and then couldn't pay for the other three (figures ...), so Hawker Siddeley were left with them on their hands. Eventually, given BEA's partial ownership by this time, two were sold to BKS, and introduced in 1969. I can imagine that the BKS spring timetable, passed to OAG with a lead time probably in months, didn't know when the changeover was going to happen, so would say Trident or Britannia for the flight. I've had a quick look in my resources, it say that Tridents came onto the London-Newcastle run in April, but first usage to Bilbao was not until November. Knowing BKS high aircraft utilisation my guess would be that it had been doing summer holiday flights from Heathrow to Palma or Malaga instead. I wouldn't be surprised if some Viscounts got used on the Bilbao route as well from time to time.

BKS standard approach with the Heathrow-based Trident was an early morning business flight to Newcastle and back, then a late morning flight southwards, either the Bilbao schedule or a holiday flight somewhere. Back for tea (sorry, British expression), a second business day trip to Newcastle and back, then a late evening flight to the Mediterranean and back, returning just at sunrise next morning, and repeat. The Newcastle-based one did much the same.

Following year, by now wholly owned by BEA, the airline got into a legal dispute with former owner Mike Keegan who objected to the K in the airline name, him, still being there, so they changed name to Northeast, with a new yellow livery. I wonder how long it took Northeast in the US to realise that someone was imitating their Yellowbirds. This only lasted a few years, then they were folded into the British Airways brand.
3. BKS operating either a Britannia or Trident on the Bilbao - London Heathrow route is correct!

Here's the April through October 1969 BKS timetable cover....

https://www.timetableimages.com/ttim...4/bk694-01.jpg

And here's the relevant page from the aforementioned timetable concerning the Bilbao - London Heathrow schedules with the note that when BK 552 was operated with the Trident rather than with the Britannia the flight would then arrive into LHR 40 minutes earlier....

https://www.timetableimages.com/ttim...4/bk694-05.jpg

The BKS timetable also lists a three times weekly flight operated by Iberia with a Caravelle between Bilbao and London Heathrow.

Last edited by jlemon; Jun 30, 2020 at 8:34 am
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Old Jun 30, 2020, 10:38 am
  #19506  
 
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Originally Posted by WHBM
Following year, by now wholly owned by BEA, the airline got into a legal dispute with former owner Mike Keegan who objected to the K in the airline name, him, still being there, so they changed name to Northeast, with a new yellow livery.
Mike Keegan liked HIS initial on the tail of HIS aircraft. Later owning (among others) Transmeridian Air Cargo, big K on the tail, it wasn't the airline name, it wasn't its registration as they all had it, it was HIM !

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transm...6_edited-2.jpg

And here's the relevant page from the aforementioned timetable concerning the Bilbao - London Heathrow schedules with the note that when BK 552 was operated with the Trident rather than with the Britannia the flight would then arrive into LHR 40 minutes earlier....
Apparently not operated by a Trident in the end, until after that timetable period.
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Old Jul 1, 2020, 12:14 pm
  #19507  
 
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10. You are in Cardiff in Wales and need to travel to Paris via Charles de Gaulle. You've found a morning flight that operates three days a week which makes one intermediate stop en route. Identify the airline, the stop and the aircraft
I think this will be British Airways, Channel Islands Division, operating a Vickers Viscount, Cardiff-Bristol-Paris. A longstanding old Cambrian Airways route, which used to stop at Southampton as well. It dated back to early Cambrian DC3 days.
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Old Jul 1, 2020, 1:39 pm
  #19508  
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Originally Posted by jlemon
17. From New Orleans you've journeyed to Philadelphia for a business meeting which has gone well. And then you get a call from your New Orleans lady friend: "Hey! I'm in Palm Springs! Why don't you fly out here and I'll buy you dinner!" You want to inquire about the wine list....but you wisely decide not to and then quickly research your flight. Ah, here's a direct two stop flight departing PHL the next morning which will get you into PSP in plenty of time before dinner. Name the airline, both stops and the aircraft.
17- let's try American, with a 727-200 via Chicago/ORD and then a 65-mile backtrack from Ontario/ONT

Originally Posted by jlemon
18. Now you are in New York City and are heading to Denver. You're in no big hurry and have found a daily flight which makes two stops en route. You book a seat in first class. Identify the airport you will depart from in the New York City area, the air carrier, both stops and the equipment. Piedmont operating a B727-200 departing from EWR. One of the stops was CLT. The other stop was not made at a city in Virginia so we are still looking for that stop.
18- the most reasonable options for a North Carolina stop before the CLT hub would have been Greensboro/High Point/Winston-Salem (GSO) or Raleigh/Durham (RDU), and again I can't see any reason to favor one over the other ... alphabetically, GSO wins
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Old Jul 1, 2020, 2:53 pm
  #19509  
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Greetings from sunny Alaska. Sorry for my absence - I've just returned from a drive to Valdez and back. Gorgeous scenery and a chance to listen to lots of great tunes on the ride down and back. Let's have a try at one of the remaining questions here...

16
. You've had enjoyable time skiing with some old friends at the Bogus Basin ski resort just north of Boise. Now you're off to New Orleans for a very special birthday dinner with a very special lady friend at Muriel's restaurant on Jackson Square in the French Quarter. Better yet, you've found a daily direct flight from BOI which makes two stops en route. Identify the air carrier, both stops and the equipment.

I could see Continental operating this with an ex-TI DC9-30 routing BOI-DEN-IAH-MSY...
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Old Jul 1, 2020, 4:36 pm
  #19510  
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Originally Posted by WHBM
I think this will be British Airways, Channel Islands Division, operating a Vickers Viscount, Cardiff-Bristol-Paris. A longstanding old Cambrian Airways route, which used to stop at Southampton as well. It dated back to early Cambrian DC3 days.
10. British Airways is correct! Here's the sched....

BA 914: Cardiff (CWL) 7:40a - 8:00a (est.) Bristol (BRS) 8:20a - 10:45a Paris (CDG)
Freq Mondays, Wednesdays and Thursdays only
Equip: Viscount
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Old Jul 1, 2020, 4:49 pm
  #19511  
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Originally Posted by jrl767
17- let's try American, with a 727-200 via Chicago/ORD and then a 65-mile backtrack from Ontario/ONT

18- the most reasonable options for a North Carolina stop before the CLT hub would have been Greensboro/High Point/Winston-Salem (GSO) or Raleigh/Durham (RDU), and again I can't see any reason to favor one over the other ... alphabetically, GSO wins
17. It wasn't American and the second stop wasn't Ontario.....however, the first stop was indeed Chicago O'Hare and the equipment was a B727-200.

18. Ah, Greensboro/High Point actually loses as the first stop was Raleigh/Durham. Here's the sched....

PI 17: New York Newark (EWR) 8:55a - 10:15a Raleigh/Durham (RDU) 11:00a - 11:35a Charlotte (CLT) 12:15p - 1:34p Denver (DEN)
Freq: Daily
Service classes: F/Y
Meal service: Breakfast EWR-RDU, Lunch CLT-DEN
Equip: B727-200

BTW, this was one of only two flights a day operated by Piedmont into Denver at this time. The other PI flight was a nonstop from Dayton.
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Old Jul 1, 2020, 4:54 pm
  #19512  
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Originally Posted by Seat 2A
Greetings from sunny Alaska. Sorry for my absence - I've just returned from a drive to Valdez and back. Gorgeous scenery and a chance to listen to lots of great tunes on the ride down and back. Let's have a try at one of the remaining questions here...

16
. You've had enjoyable time skiing with some old friends at the Bogus Basin ski resort just north of Boise. Now you're off to New Orleans for a very special birthday dinner with a very special lady friend at Muriel's restaurant on Jackson Square in the French Quarter. Better yet, you've found a daily direct flight from BOI which makes two stops en route. Identify the air carrier, both stops and the equipment.

I could see Continental operating this with an ex-TI DC9-30 routing BOI-DEN-IAH-MSY...
16. Man, I can also see this flight being operated by good ol' Continental!

However......it wasn't CO, a stop was not made at Houston Intercontinental and the aircraft wasn't a DC9-30. On the plus side of the column, a stop was indeed made at Denver. But was DEN the first or second stop? Please guess again, sir!

And BTW, the last time I visited Valdez (which was quite some time ago), I arrived in VDZ on board a Bell 412 helicopter.

Last edited by jlemon; Jul 1, 2020 at 6:07 pm Reason: correction concerning my response
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Old Jul 1, 2020, 5:20 pm
  #19513  
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17- PHL-ORD-XXX-PSP with a 72S in 1985, not AA ... I can only think of two other choices for the first leg, both of which would probably have a default second stop of a hub farther to the west, and one of those is a much stronger candidate than the other

TWA, XXX being St Louis (STL)

(I had in fact initially entertained a guess of this airline and hub, with the flight also operating via ONT as the second stop)
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Old Jul 1, 2020, 5:51 pm
  #19514  
 
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Originally Posted by jlemon
10. British Airways is correct! Here's the sched....

BA 914: Cardiff (CWL) 7:40a - 8:00a (est.) Bristol (BRS) 8:20a - 10:45a Paris (CDG)
Freq Mondays, Wednesdays and Thursdays only
Equip: Viscount
This actual flight had an interesting moment just a few months before the question date, when the landing gear on Viscount G-AOYS failed to deploy on approach to the Bristol intermediate stop. Returned to Cardiff, the old Cambrian maintenance base, where after various things didn't work out they did a gear up landing, ending up at right-angles to the runway, on the grass. Surprisingly, for a 20-year old aircraft which had bent its propellers, it was repaired and back in the air 3 weeks later.

https://aviation-safety.net/database...?id=19790525-0

Viscount c/n 267 operational record

It's not much of a return from Bristol to Cardiff, just 23 nm apart and as Bristol is up on a hill I suspect their two control towers might be visible from one another. It's about 70 miles by road between the two, going around the estuary, best part of 2 hours driving time. Was always very common for flights from there to be paired, serving both airports with a quick hop.

All not bad for a 23 year old propeller aircraft which had made a long slide. It lived another 6 years and a couple more operators, which included being bought from BA by British Air Ferries owner Mike Keegan - see above !
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Old Jul 1, 2020, 6:04 pm
  #19515  
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Originally Posted by jrl767
17- PHL-ORD-XXX-PSP with a 72S in 1985, not AA ... I can only think of two other choices for the first leg, both of which would probably have a default second stop of a hub farther to the west, and one of those is a much stronger candidate than the other

TWA, XXX being St Louis (STL)

(I had in fact initially entertained a guess of this airline and hub, with the flight also operating via ONT as the second stop)
17. TWA is correct! And here's the sched....

TW 329: Philadelphia (PHL) 7:55a - 9:09a Chicago O'Hare (ORD) 9:59a - 11:05a St. Louis (STL) 12:10p - 1:47p Palm Springs (PSP)
Freq: Daily except Sun. PHL-ORD, daily ORD-PSP
Service classes: F/Y
Meal service: Breakfast PHL-ORD, Lunch STL-PSP
Equip: B727-200

BTW, Trans World was also operating two daily flights at this time from Ontario to Palm Springs both operated with MD-80 equipment. American was also operating a daily B727-200 service from ONT to PSP while Sun Aire, a commuter air carrier that was in the process of being folded into SkyWest following its acquisition, was operating six weekday flights from ONT to PSP with the Swearingen Metro II.

Last edited by jlemon; Jul 1, 2020 at 6:27 pm Reason: clarification
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