Go Back  FlyerTalk Forums > Travel&Dining > TravelBuzz
Reload this Page >

Old Timer's Airline Quiz and Discussion.

Old Timer's Airline Quiz and Discussion.

Old Nov 20, 2012, 8:47 am
  #1906  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: LFT
Programs: AA Plat, lots of AA, AS, DL, UA miles, former top level CO Elite (sigh...)
Posts: 10,792
Originally Posted by WHBM
I had forgotten that on the web there is a complete Delta timetable for March 1 1973, just two months after we are reviewing here, which includes the page at the back where Delta gave a cross-reference of aircraft types by flight, including specifying the difference between the 727-100 and the 727-200. Someone in the Atlanta office must have been a plane buff !

http://www.departedflights.com/DL030173p86.html

Furthermore the flight numbers are all grouped into blocks by aircraft type, as you can see looking at the page. 727s are 200-299, and 1200-1299. A second buff, this time in Ops !

Only four of the new Delta 727-200s had been delivered by the time of this schedule, so the bulk of them are the old Northeast fleet. You can see that, while many of them remain on the inherited Northeast routes, quite a number had started to invade Delta territory.

Following the links on the page will take you to scans of the individual pages.
Very interesting to see the different seating configurations with regard to Delta's DC-9-10 and DC-9-30 aircraft at this time.....

DC9 (DC-9-10): 28 F / 40 Y

D9S (DC-9-30): 24 F / 65 Y

D9N (DC-9-30): 12 F / 80 Y

I wonder if the D9N designation identified DC-9-30 equipment formerly operated by Northeast.....
jlemon is offline  
Old Nov 20, 2012, 9:53 am
  #1907  
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: London, England.
Programs: BA
Posts: 8,476
Originally Posted by jlemon
Very interesting to see the different seating configurations with regard to Delta's DC-9-10 and DC-9-30 aircraft at this time.....

DC9 (DC-9-10): 28 F / 40 Y

D9S (DC-9-30): 24 F / 65 Y

D9N (DC-9-30): 12 F / 80 Y

I wonder if the D9N designation identified DC-9-30 equipment formerly operated by Northeast.....
Just as surprising is that the Convair 880 at 24F 72Y had just 7 more Y seats than the Delta DC9-30. They were both 5-across coach seating.
WHBM is offline  
Old Nov 20, 2012, 12:21 pm
  #1908  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: LFT
Programs: AA Plat, lots of AA, AS, DL, UA miles, former top level CO Elite (sigh...)
Posts: 10,792
Originally Posted by WHBM
Just as surprising is that the Convair 880 at 24F 72Y had just 7 more Y seats than the Delta DC9-30. They were both 5-across coach seating.
Indeed. And I am reminded of a similar situation currently over at United with regard to two different aircraft types formerly operated by Continental....

B767-200ER: F 25 / Y 149

B737-900ER: F 20 / Y 153

Bear in mind this version of the UA 739 is configured with standard domestic first class seating while the UA 762 has the old style BusinessFirst sleeper seats (non lie-flat) in a 2-1-2 configuration. In addition, the 739 has an Economy Plus (E+) section featuring more legroom for certain Y seats in addition to standard coach seating while the 762 does not have an E+ section, only standard Y seating throughout the coach cabin.

Still, these two aircraft types are quite close with regard to total seating capacity.

And, oh by the way, Happy (Belated) Birthday to the Old Timer's Airline and Airliner Quiz!

Seat 2A introduced this thread back on November 18, 2011. Since then, there have been over 1,900 replies and 63,000 views.....:-:

So here's a toast to many more!

Last edited by jlemon; Nov 20, 2012 at 1:03 pm
jlemon is offline  
Old Nov 20, 2012, 9:21 pm
  #1909  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: East Ester, Alaska
Programs: Alaska Million Miler, United Million Miler, Wyndham Rewards Diamond, Choice Hotels Diamond
Posts: 12,140
Originally Posted by jlemon
And, oh by the way, Happy (Belated) Birthday to the Old Timer's Airline and Airliner Quiz!

Seat 2A introduced this thread back on November 18, 2011. Since then, there have been over 1,900 replies and 63,000 views.....:-:

So here's a toast to many more!
Thanks to all of you who've participated in this thread. Special thanks go out to jlemon, for were it not for his cheerful demeanor and intriguing questions, this thread may very well have dried up. ^^
Seat 2A is offline  
Old Nov 21, 2012, 4:13 am
  #1910  
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: London, England.
Programs: BA
Posts: 8,476
Happy birthday all. Quick question then from 60 years ago to celebrate.

Which airlines operated the world's first proper jetliner, the De Havilland Comet 1, which was in service from 1952-54 ?

Last edited by WHBM; Nov 21, 2012 at 6:19 am
WHBM is offline  
Old Nov 21, 2012, 7:36 am
  #1911  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: LFT
Programs: AA Plat, lots of AA, AS, DL, UA miles, former top level CO Elite (sigh...)
Posts: 10,792
Originally Posted by WHBM
Happy birthday all. Quick question then from 60 years ago to celebrate.

Which airlines operated the world's first proper jetliner, the De Havilland Comet 1, which was in service from 1952-54 ?
I'll guess BOAC, Air France and UTA.......
jlemon is offline  
Old Nov 21, 2012, 3:12 pm
  #1912  
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Dorset, Vermont, USA
Programs: All of them!
Posts: 397
UTA, BOAC, BEA, and Canadian Pacific Airlines operated the Comet 1 as I recall. Possibly the RAF as well.

Last edited by cs57; Nov 21, 2012 at 3:13 pm Reason: adding info
cs57 is offline  
Old Nov 21, 2012, 5:37 pm
  #1913  
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Salish Sea
Programs: DL,AC,HH,PC
Posts: 8,974
Originally Posted by cs57
UTA, BOAC, BEA, and Canadian Pacific Airlines operated the Comet 1 as I recall. Possibly the RAF as well.
We've been through this before. The first (actually the second) Canadian Pacific Comet crashed in Karachi on its RTW 'delivery' flight. The other one was cancelled, never delivered and picked up by the RAF.

If I was disqualified for saying they 'operated' it before, then so are you now .
Wally Bird is offline  
Old Nov 21, 2012, 5:43 pm
  #1914  
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Dorset, Vermont, USA
Programs: All of them!
Posts: 397
I stand corrected!
cs57 is offline  
Old Nov 22, 2012, 4:11 pm
  #1915  
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: London, England.
Programs: BA
Posts: 8,476
We've been through this before. The first (actually the second) Canadian Pacific Comet crashed in Karachi on its RTW 'delivery' flight. The other one was cancelled, never delivered and picked up by the RAF.

If I was disqualified for saying they 'operated' it before, then so are you now
Oh dear, that sounds like me, and I didnt think wed done the Comet 1 yet (or disqualified anybody). In fact Ive just been back through the thread and cant find it. But its a big thread !

The three full airline operators of the Comet 1 were BOAC, UAT of France (UTA didnt come into being until much later, when UAT and TAI merged) and Air France. BEA just looked enviously on.

UAT used them on Paris to Dakar service, and later extended these down their extensive African route network. When they were grounded their two remaining aircraft sat dumped at Le Bourget for about 7 years until scrapped in the early 1960s. Air France also operated Comets from Paris Le Bourget out to the Middle East, and were on the brink of further expansion. After withdrawl, they sold their fleet back to the UK where they were used for a range of experiments. One of these aircraft is the sole Comet 1 survivor, at the Cosford museum near Birmingham, UK, where it masquerades in a BOAC livery that it never really carried.

BOAC were of course the prime operator, from London they developed the first jet routes, to Johannesburg and Tokyo. BOACs development was really hamstrung by the accidents, of the initial fleet of 9, no less than 5 were lost in accidents in less than two years of operation (they also took the second Canadian Pacific one which CP cancelled. As well as the three structural breakups, BOAC lost two in runway accidents which, together with the Canadian Pacific one, and one of UATs at Dakar, showed what a handful the aircraft was to operate.

Now for the bits for us to argue over . Canadian Pacific did indeed take delivery of one, which crashed on its delivery flight at Karachi, and they cancelled the second one, so it never entered commercial service with them among other things the crash had killed a number of the key members of the CP Comet project team. Its a strange way you may think to deliver from Britain to Canada, via Karachi, and the reason is that the aircraft was not going to be operated from Canada, it was going to take up duty on CPs Vancouver to Sydney, Australia route. However, it didnt have the range to do Vancouver to Honolulu, nothing you could do about that, so this sector was to be left to DC-6Bs, and the Comet was to only operate onwards from Honolulu to Sydney. An unusual arrangement.

The Royal Canadian Air Force took two, but theyre not really an airline. They were however the only operator to do the modifications after the grounding, which involved complete remanufacturing of the fuselage (including substituting round windows for the original rectangular ones, and really cannot have been worthwhile). It took several years, they came back to RCAF service in 1957, but were withdrawn in 1964. One of them then passed down through dealers, with little success, and ended up being scrapped at Miami in 1975. Did anyone see it there ? Here she is, with a very 1975 US car alongside.

http://www.airliners.net/photo/De-Ha...8717683b894a47


South African Airways never ordered the Comet, but they had Comet 1 service because they hired one from BOAC, with SAA crews, and small SAA stickers on the aircraft. It was actually the SAA leased aircraft which crashed near Rome in April 1954 which finally finished the types service.

Did the RAF use the Comet 1 ? Its a fine point. The three Air France aircraft were returned to the UK where they passed through the hands of various military research organisations, but not really used by the RAF as such.

Now, for anybody interested in the Comet 1 flights, heres a whole lot of the timetables they were operating/expected to operate, here. What a lot of near-misses are here; Canadian Pacific across the South Pacific, or Air France from Paris to Stockholm.

http://www.timetableimages.com/ttimages/comet1.htm

Lots of fun reading there !
WHBM is offline  
Old Nov 22, 2012, 5:23 pm
  #1916  
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Salish Sea
Programs: DL,AC,HH,PC
Posts: 8,974
Originally Posted by WHBM
Oh dear, that sounds like me, and I didnt think wed done the Comet 1 yet (or disqualified anybody). In fact Ive just been back through the thread and cant find it. But its a big thread !
Post #11.

I was wrong in that CF-CUM did not end up with the RAF. It become G-ANAV with BOAC for a while and then went to the RAE (Royal Aircraft Establishment). The nose section is on display at the Science Museum in London.

Killed at Karachi were captains Pentland and Sawle, 3 other CP crew and 6 DH employees: http://reocities.com/CapeCanaveral/L...3/comcfcun.htm
Wally Bird is offline  
Old Nov 23, 2012, 1:18 am
  #1917  
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: London, England.
Programs: BA
Posts: 8,476
There's an interestingly-written lengthy article on the Comet, opening with the Karachi accident, here

http://www.planetofearth.com/comet-aar-march-3-1953.pdf
WHBM is offline  
Old Nov 23, 2012, 11:11 am
  #1918  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: LFT
Programs: AA Plat, lots of AA, AS, DL, UA miles, former top level CO Elite (sigh...)
Posts: 10,792
Good Afternoon All!

Hope everyone here in the good old U.S. of A. had a nice Thanksgiving and that our friends in other parts of world are doing fine as well.....

Let's return to the quiz on what is hopefully a holiday Friday for many of us (although one old buddy of mine is working today as he is currently flying in command of a B757-222 in the Friendly Skies).......

And, as usual, all quiz items concern scheduled passenger airline operations.

1) What airline served Santa Fe, NM (SAF) with Lockheed Constellation aircraft? ANSWERED

2) Identify two (2) airlines that operated Boeing 707 service into Palm Springs, CA (PSP). ANSWERED

3) What was unique concerning service provided by West Coast Airlines into Seattle? ANSWERED

4) Besides Seattle, West Coast Airlines served nine (9) other destinations with DC-9-10 series jet equipment in April of 1968. Identify all nine cities.

5) Also in April of 1968, Bonanza Air Lines operated DC-9-10 series aircraft into ten (10) different destinations. Name all ten.

6) With regard to the original Frontier Airlines (FL), what did Farmington, NM (FMN), Grand Island, NE (GRI), Laramie, WY (LAR), Manhattan, KS (MHK) and Redding, CA (RDD) all have in common during the 1980's specifically concerning their FL service?

7) What major U.S. airline served New Bedford, MA (EWB) in March of 1973 and what type of aircraft was used? ANSWERED

8) What was the first jet aircraft type operated by Alaska Airlines? ANSWERED

9) What was the first destination served by Alaska Airlines in southern California? ANSWERED

10) What was the second destination served by Alaska Airlines in southern California?

11) What was the third destination served by Alaska Airlines in southern California?

12) In June of 1969, Northeast Airlines was operating DC-9-30 jet service from Cleveland (CLE) nonstop to Chicago Midway (MDW) and Burlington, VT (BTV) with direct one stop service to Bangor, ME (BGR). These were the only three cities served by NE with nonstop or direct flights at this time where a connection was not required. What was unique about Northeast's Cleveland service at this time?

13) In February of 1976, what airline served Morristown, NJ (MMU) and what type of equipment did they fly?

14) Also in February of 1976, two airlines provided jet service from Panama City, FL (PFN) to Miami (MIA). One airline offered one daily flight and the other carrier flew twice daily. All service was operated on a direct, no change of plane basis with one, two or three stops en route. Identify both airlines and the respective aircraft types they operated on the route. And for bonus points, identify the stops. ANSWERED

15) Once again in February of 1976, only one airline was operating direct, no change of plane service from Miami (MIA) to Denver (DEN) with five daily services, all of which made one or two stops en route. Name the airline and the equipment used. And once again for bonus points, identify the stops. ANSWERED

16) In the spring of 1973, it was possible to fly direct with no change of plane from Presque Isle, ME (PQI) to Dallas Love Field (DAL) although there were five (5) intermediate stops en route. Identify the air carrier and the aircraft type used. And for even more bonus points, identify all five stops. ANSWERED

17) Identify every Boeing 737 operator in Canada to include airlines past and present. ANSWERED

18) It's December of 1971 and you are in Chicago. You want to travel to Los Angeles and you would prefer to fly first class on a wide body aircraft. However, being an airline enthusiast, you enjoy landings and takeoffs en route. Lo and behold, you discover a direct flight utilizing a wide body jet that makes two stops between ORD and LAX. What airline and aircraft type will you be flying on and where will you be stopping en route?

Here's to a fine weekend to all!

Last edited by jlemon; Nov 26, 2012 at 3:42 pm Reason: Additional info for question #7
jlemon is offline  
Old Nov 23, 2012, 1:17 pm
  #1919  
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Salish Sea
Programs: DL,AC,HH,PC
Posts: 8,974
Originally Posted by jlemon
8) What was the first jet aircraft type operated by Alaska Airlines?
Convair 880

17) Identify every Boeing 737 operator in Canada to include airlines past and present.
Eastern Provincial
Canjet
Canair Cargo
Nordair
Quebecair
NWT Air
Air Inuit
Transair
Pacific Western
NWT Air
Canadian North
Air North
Air Canada
CP Air/Canadi>n
Sunwing
Astoria
Zip
First Air
Canada 3000
Royal
Enerjet
Nolinor
Westjet
Flair/Kelowna Flightcraft

Last edited by Wally Bird; Nov 23, 2012 at 5:22 pm Reason: Thought of more...
Wally Bird is offline  
Old Nov 23, 2012, 1:41 pm
  #1920  
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: PDX
Posts: 2,284
Originally Posted by jlemon
3) What was unique concerning service provided by West Coast Airlines into Seattle?
They flew into Boeing Field (BFI) rather than Sea-Tac (SEA).
AeroWesty is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Manage Preferences - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

This site is owned, operated, and maintained by MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Designated trademarks are the property of their respective owners.