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Old Timer's Airline Quiz and Discussion.

Old Timer's Airline Quiz and Discussion.

Old May 12, 2020, 10:27 am
  #18841  
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Originally Posted by jrl767
remember a few weeks ago we had an interesting exchange about flight numbers?
I was actually quite surprised that my correct (on the second try!) guess of SEA-JFK as UA's domestic 747SP route was flight 22. For the longest time, UA22 was the morning SFO-JFK nonstop.

Originally Posted by Seat 2A
35. (1988) Once upon a time, there were lots of relatively short 747 flights within the continental United States. We’re talking segments under 1000 miles in length. Anyway, that was then. These days I’ve found just three segments under 1000 miles being flown by 747s in the continental U.S. For this question, we’re looking to identify just the shortest segment and the airline that flies it.
It wasn't NW on the ORD-MSP route. It was over 100 miles shorter
Well, are we talking about a segment operated by an airline that could actually carry local traffic on the segment in question? If not, I am going to make an oddball guess of Lufthansa PHL-JFK. LH's PHL service was usually a DC-10 but perhaps it was a 747 at some point in time.

36. (1979) It’s been a great weekend in Las Vegas but now duty calls in Baltimore. You’ve got a late afternoon appointment in Glen Burnie and it just so happens that there’s a one-stop redeye that’ll get you into Baltimore mid-morning. Your ability to sleep on airplanes is legendary, so this flight will be perfect! Identify the airline, aircraft and the stop.
Could be just about any major airline but I will start the guessing with a DL D8S via ATL.

Last edited by Herb687; May 12, 2020 at 10:40 am Reason: New guesses
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Old May 12, 2020, 10:58 am
  #18842  
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iirc UA22 actually operated HKG-SEA-JFK, which certainly makes sense for the 74L
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Old May 12, 2020, 1:32 pm
  #18843  
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Originally Posted by Bluehen1
35. (1988) Once upon a time, there were lots of relatively short 747 flights within the continental United States. We’re talking segments under 1000 miles in length. Anyway, that was then. These days I’ve found just three segments under 1000 miles being flown by 747s in the continental U.S. For this question, we’re looking to identify just the shortest segment and the airline that flies it.
It wasn't NW on the ORD-MSP route. It was over 100 miles shorter

I'm going to take a stab at this since I think in an earlier comment that the two cities were within the same state. Trying to come up with airports that are closer than ORD-MSP within the same state and had 747 really left me with two thoughts. It would either be TW with STL-MCI or AA with DFW-IAH.

Good morning, Bluehen1 - at least it's morning here. Way to resume the festivities on this question! My comment regarding the two cities within the same state was either about a different topic or was stating that that wasn't the case for this question. When I think of short 747 flights, I think of one that came up in jlemon's last set of questions regarding a SAN-LAX-HNL flight. SAN-LAX checks in at a mere 110 miles. However, that was then. For the time frame of this question (You'll note there are two 747 shortest route questions in this set, with different time periods) both STL-MCI (236 miles) and DFW-IAH (225 miles) are longer than the interstate route I'm looking for.

As an aside, Kansas City in particular would be an improbable destination for a 747, especially a fully loaded one. MCI is comprised of three separate passenger terminals that are built in the shape of rings. Each ring has a parking lot in the center of the ring. When the airport was designed back in the late 1960s, the idea was that passengers could either be dropped off or park much nearer to their gate. The roadway has actually been measured at only 75 feet from the gates! Much of this design was driven by TWA who envisioned MCI as its primary domestic hub. Unfortunately, the design was flawed from the start, primarily due to the corridors being too narrow. When the airport was dedicated in 1972, it didn’t take long to discover that the significantly greater numbers of passengers deplaning from widebodied aircraft would quickly overwhelm the narrow corridors. There were not many restrooms, shops and restaurants and, due to the limitations of the narrow building and corridors, those that did exist were also very small. Additionally, the spate of hijackings in the 1960s resulted in security checkpoints being required in all major airports. The narrow ring-like terminals were not conducive to a central security checkpoint and so the checkpoints had to be installed at each gate. The result was that once you were past security, you no longer had access to bathrooms, shops or restaurants without going back outside the checkpoint.

It wasn’t long before TWA asked for the terminals (which had been built to its specifications) to be rebuilt to correct these deficiencies. Like many large projects of its day, cost overruns and labor strife had resulted in the airport being considerably more expensive to build than originally planned and so the city refused to comply. As a result, TWA moved its hub across the state to St. Louis. I’d like to think the bad karma resulting from that move led to Carl Icahn’s disastrous involvement with the airline some twenty years later.

Last edited by Seat 2A; May 12, 2020 at 3:28 pm
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Old May 12, 2020, 2:02 pm
  #18844  
 
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I wasn't even thinking about the logistics of 747 passengers in the terminals. I've been through there and hated it.

So, I also misread your comment of it being interstate as intrastate... My fault... my subsequent guess is AA DTW-ORD
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Old May 12, 2020, 2:31 pm
  #18845  
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Originally Posted by jrl767
37. (1979) After having traveled from Baltimore to Pittsburgh by train, you join an old friend from Carnegie Mellon University to watch the Steelers take on their arch rivals, the Cleveland Browns. The next day is a travel day requiring you to head across country to Seattle, Washington. Unfortunately, US Air is still a couple years away from offering nonstop flights in this market, but thankfully there is a single daily one-stop direct flight. Better yet, it’s a morning departure and it’s got a First Class seat available. Identify the airline, the aircraft and the enroute stop.

Braniff BN 183 Pittsburgh (PIT) 810a-915a B Kansas City (MCI) 1005a-1135a L Seattle (SEA) 727-200 Daily

60. (1979) Cleveland can be particularly dreary in the winter, so one can only imagine your excitement to be headed down to sunny Acapulco this weekend. Thankfully, you won’t have to make any connections either because there’s a single direct flight between Cleveland and Acapulco that makes two enroute stops. Name the airline, the two enroute stops and the aircraft type.

Worth a shot here ... I think 1979 is about when BN stood up their expanded services at Kansas CIty / MCI, so I'll offer their 727-227 as a "two-fer" answer
  • 37 (PIT-XXX-SEA)
  • 60 (CLE-XXX-IAH-ACA)
Yes to question #37 , but no to #60 . As logical as MCI would seem, that flight actually stopped at a different airport out of Cleveland. Please, guess again!

Last edited by Seat 2A; May 12, 2020 at 2:52 pm
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Old May 12, 2020, 2:34 pm
  #18846  
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35- allow me to weigh in here with one that we have seen once or twice before ... Northwest, 237 miles between Detroit/DTW and Milwaukee/MKE
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Old May 12, 2020, 2:52 pm
  #18847  
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Originally Posted by Herb687
35. (1988) Once upon a time, there were lots of relatively short 747 flights within the continental United States. Were talking segments under 1000 miles in length. Anyway, that was then. These days Ive found just three segments under 1000 miles being flown by 747s in the continental U.S. For this question, were looking to identify just the shortest segment and the airline that flies it.
It wasn't NW on the ORD-MSP route. It was over 100 miles shorter

Well, are we talking about a segment operated by an airline that could actually carry local traffic on the segment in question?

Yes. Unless otherwise specified, CONDITIONAL STOPOVER flights do not count. Indeed, I don't believe I've ever referenced one as part of an answer for the fact that they are not valid for point to point transport under normal circumstances.

36. (1979) Its been a great weekend in Las Vegas but now duty calls in Baltimore. Youve got a late afternoon appointment in Glen Burnie and it just so happens that theres a one-stop redeye thatll get you into Baltimore mid-morning. Your ability to sleep on airplanes is legendary, so this flight will be perfect! Identify the airline, aircraft and the stop.

Could be just about any major airline but I will start the guessing with a DL D8S via ATL.

You're right, Herb. This is not the best question because there are so many variables. I will say that unless otherwise specified I only consider a flight for a question - particularly a direct flight involving a stop or more - if it is the ONLY flight offered in that market. That said, while Delta with a DC-8-61 (Of which I have logged flights aboard every single one in the fleet) happens to be incorrect for this time period, it could just as easily be correct a month or so later. So then, how about a hint: We're looking for a twin engine jet on this one...
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Old May 12, 2020, 3:04 pm
  #18848  
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Originally Posted by jrl767
iirc UA22 actually operated HKG-SEA-JFK, which certainly makes sense for the 74L
The SEA-HKG run is one United had authority on prior to its purchase of Pan Am's Pacific division. Prior to that purchase and the subsequent acquisition of 747SPs, United had leased a couple of DC-10-30s from CP Air for that route amongst others. A United gate agent told me that the DC-10s often had considerable numbers of seats blocked in order to make the trip nonstop. However, he also mentioned that United did a brisk business in cargo on those flights to the extent that occasionally it may have been making as much or more money in the cargo holds than on the passenger deck.
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Old May 12, 2020, 3:14 pm
  #18849  
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Originally Posted by Bluehen1
35. (1988) Once upon a time, there were lots of relatively short 747 flights within the continental United States. Were talking segments under 1000 miles in length. Anyway, that was then. These days Ive found just three segments under 1000 miles being flown by 747s in the continental U.S. For this question, were looking to identify just the shortest segment and the airline that flies it.
It wasn't NW on the ORD-MSP route. It was over 100 miles shorter

My subsequent guess is AA DTW-ORD

And an excellent guess it is. Back in the 1970s AA used to schedule one or two 747s a day on this route. As with my comments above, could they have been shipping a lot of freight to Detroit? In any event, the route we're looking for has actually already been mentioned, but for a different question and time frame for which it was incorrect. Suffice it to say that the route we're looking for is under 200 miles in length. Additionally, it was not operated by AA. I sense a correct answer in your very near future...
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Old May 12, 2020, 3:24 pm
  #18850  
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Originally Posted by jrl767
35. (1988) Once upon a time, there were lots of relatively short 747 flights within the continental United States. Were talking segments under 1000 miles in length. Anyway, that was then. These days Ive found just three segments under 1000 miles being flown by 747s in the continental U.S. For this question, were looking to identify just the shortest segment and the airline that flies it.

Allow me to weigh in here with one that we have seen once or twice before ... Northwest, 237 miles between Detroit/DTW and Milwaukee/MKE

You posted this as I was responding to Bluehen1 with the latest qualifier - i.e. the route is less than 200 miles in length and it has been mentioned previously though incorrectly in response to a different question. It was not operated by either AA or NW.
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Old May 12, 2020, 3:26 pm
  #18851  
 
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Originally Posted by Seat 2A
35. (1988) Once upon a time, there were lots of relatively short 747 flights within the continental United States. Were talking segments under 1000 miles in length. Anyway, that was then. These days Ive found just three segments under 1000 miles being flown by 747s in the continental U.S. For this question, were looking to identify just the shortest segment and the airline that flies it.
It wasn't NW on the ORD-MSP route. It was over 100 miles shorter
Another complete guess from me:

Trans World, JFK-BOS
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Old May 12, 2020, 3:47 pm
  #18852  
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Originally Posted by KT550
35. (1988) Once upon a time, there were lots of relatively short 747 flights within the continental United States. Were talking segments under 1000 miles in length. Anyway, that was then. These days Ive found just three segments under 1000 miles being flown by 747s in the continental U.S. For this question, were looking to identify just the shortest segment and the airline that flies it.
It wasn't NW on the ORD-MSP route. It was over 100 miles shorter

Another complete guess from me: Trans World, JFK-BOS

That's the ticket, KT. JFK-BOS checks in at 186 miles. Per the 1988 OAG I referenced for this question, it was the shortest 747 flight. That said there have been shorter ones such as the SAN-LAX sector that United once operated as part of its SAN-LAX-HNL flight (I don't recall the year). On a personal note, my shortest 747 flight was between Seattle and Portland aboard Northwest in 1976. The distance on that one checked in at 130 miles.

On that note, does anyone have any thoughts on what might be the shortest ever scheduled 747 flight? (I do not know definitively)
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Old May 12, 2020, 3:53 pm
  #18853  
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We're making good progress here. For any of you new to the festivities, please limit your response to no more than two questions per day so that all may participate. And as always, we are looking for complete answers here. Ready? Set? Go!

32. (1989) Your family loves to ski. Unfortunately quality ski opportunities are difficult to come by in Minnesota so this year youve headed off to Killington, Vermont. Unfortunately, getting back home to the Twin Cities will not be as easy as it was getting to Vermont. Your flight from Burlington to Minneapolis makes 2 enroute stops. At least a snack is served along the way. Identify the airline, the aircraft and the two enroute stops.

35. (1988) Once upon a time, there were lots of relatively short 747 flights within the continental United States. Were talking segments under 1000 miles in length. Anyway, that was then. These days Ive found just three segments under 1000 miles being flown by 747s in the continental U.S. For this question, were looking to identify just the shortest segment and the airline that flies it.
A N S W E R E D

36. (1979) Its been a great weekend in Las Vegas but now duty calls in Baltimore. Youve got a late afternoon appointment in Glen Burnie and it just so happens that theres a one-stop redeye thatll get you into Baltimore mid-morning. Your ability to sleep on airplanes is legendary, so this flight will be perfect! Identify the airline, aircraft and the stop.

37. (1979) After having traveled from Baltimore to Pittsburgh by train, you join an old friend from Carnegie Mellon University to watch the Steelers take on their arch rivals, the Cleveland Browns. The next day is a travel day requiring you to head across country to Seattle, Washington. Unfortunately, US Air is still a couple years away from offering nonstop flights in this market, but thankfully there is a single daily one-stop direct flight. Better yet, its a morning departure and its got a First Class seat available. Identify the airline, the aircraft and the enroute stop.
A N S W E R E D

38. (1998) Youre seated aboard the only flight between New York and Las Vegas that markets a Business Class or C class seat. Well what the heck its cheaper than everyone elses First Class so youve decided to splurge! Identify the airline and aircraft youre flying aboard.

39. (1979) Between San Juan, PR and Miami, almost all of the mostly daily flights are operated with wide-bodied equipment. Only one airline serves this route exclusively with narrow-bodied equipment (2 daily flights). Identify that airline as well as the aircraft type it utilizes.

40. (1988) From your home outside St. Louis, MO you need to fly back to Long Island for your 10th high school reunion at Connetquot High School. These days theres a lot more service into nearby Long Island MacArthur Airport than there used to be, though youre disappointed to find none from hometown airline TWA. Thankfully, the STL-ISP route is served by a single daily two-stop flight, so you quickly book a seat before pondering which clothes will make you look thinnest at the reunion. Identify the airline, aircraft and the two enroute stops in order.

43. (1989) It used to bethat the only airline offering flights between Albuquerque and Tucson was Frontier. You still have fond memories of dressing up to fly to Tucson aboard a new 727 Arrow Jet back in 1967. These days Frontier has passed into history and the ABQ-TUS market is now served by two airlines, each offering two daily nonstop flights. Identify those airlines and the aircraft each operates on its flights.

44. (1970) Based upon schedules reflected in the 1970 OAG I used to reference these questions, what was the longest Convair 880 flight in North America?
It wasn't JFK-PHX or PIT-LAX

45. (1995) Duty calls in the form of a sales call next week out in Albuquerque, New Mexico. From your home office in New Orleans, you figure youll probably have to connect in Houston or Dallas but are pleased to find a one stop direct flight that departs New Orleans each morning and arrives in Albuquerque with plenty of time left in the day to complete your business. You ask your secretary to book you a seat and then return your attention to the Metairie project.
It's not Southwest

47. (1988) It had been a nice ride thus far as buses go. Youd boarded the Grey Dog in Wilmington, DE earlier this evening and were headed to Scranton, PA when suddenly the driver came on over the PA and announced that there was some kind of a problem with the engine and hed have to get off the road. Thankfully he was able to do so at a Sunoco Travel Plaza just off I-95 on the outskirts of Philadelphia. He then contacted dispatch on his radio only to be informed that a replacement bus wouldnt be available until sometime after 11:30pm. Whaaat? No way! You need to be in Scranton before midnight! Maybe you could fly there. You call US Air whose agent informs you that their last flight of the night between Philly and AVP departs in 12 minutes. However, shes kind enough to let you know that another airline has a flight departing Philly in about an hour and half, with a jet no less. Calls to that airline and then a taxi company prove fruitful and soon youre on your way to AVP in First Class no less, courtesy of the FN/YN designated flight. Identify the airline and aircraft youre flying upon.

48. (1998) If you want to fly out of Las Vegas aboard a DC-9-30, only one airline fits the bill, offering service to a single destination. Identify the airline and the destination city served.

49. (1989) Your old college buddy from Carnegie Mellon University has called to let you know hes recently come upon a pair of tickets to this weekends Steelers game against the Patriots. Wanna go?! Hmm A quick check of the schedules shows a single airline offering two daily direct flights between your hometown airport in Melbourne, FL and Pittsburgh. Both flights make the same two stops along the way, and in terms of total travel time either one would time out about the same as if youd made a 1.5 hour connection in Atlanta. You decide to book a seat on the early evening flight and call your buddy with the good news. Name the airline, the aircraft and the two stops. And if youre really up for it, the score of the game.

53. (1970) Based upon schedules reflected in the 1970 OAG I used to reference these questions, what was the shortest flight in the U.S. operated with a 747?
It's not JFK-BOS. It's longer

57. (1998) From your home in Scottsdale, Arizona you need to travel to Montreal, Quebec for a symposium on light rail options and operations hosted by Bombardier, one of the world's largest companies in the rail vehicle and equipment manufacturing and servicing industry. With plenty of time available to you before the symposium, you decide to have a bit of fun with your flights out to Montreal. To wit, youve found a combination of flights that will allow you to
.
  • Fly between PHX and YMX aboard a 727, 737 and 747 in that order
  • Both the 727 and 737 flights will be in all-economy configurations with only the 747 offering premium class seating
  • The 727 and 737 flights are not variant specific
Its worth noting that given the departure point of the 747 into YMX, one and only one routing meets the specifications outlined above, especially given the use of single class configured aircraft. BTW, you will overnight at the final connection point though this shouldnt have any bearing on the parameters described above. Good luck, men!

58. (1988) Youve had a great week of sailboarding around the Bahamas and now its time to return home to Nashville. Your trip out to Nassau involved a couple of connections, but on the way home youll be on a direct flight albeit one that makes two enroute stops. Thats fine by you therell be less chances to damage or lose your rad sailboard. Identify the airline, aircraft and the two enroute stops in order please.

60. (1979) Cleveland can be particularly dreary in the winter, so one can only imagine your excitement to be headed down to sunny Acapulco this weekend. Thankfully, you wont have to make any connections either because theres a single direct flight between Cleveland and Acapulco that makes two enroute stops. Name the airline, the two enroute stops and the aircraft type.
Braniff 72S routing CLE - ____ - IAH - ACA has been identified. Need missing stop
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Old May 12, 2020, 4:06 pm
  #18854  
 
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Originally Posted by Seat 2A
does anyone have any thoughts on what might be the shortest ever scheduled 747 flight? (I do not know definitively)
I think you'd struggle to beat SAN-LAX at 109 miles.

British Airways used to fly YVR-SEA (127 miles) then on to LHR but I don't know if stopover traffic was allowed. I doubt there were traffic rights for the YVR-SEA sector alone.

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Old May 12, 2020, 5:30 pm
  #18855  
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On that note, does anyone have any thoughts on what might be the shortest ever scheduled 747 flight? (I do not know definitively)
While not a 747, the shortest flight I ever flew aboard a wide body on was an Eastern A300 between Miami and Ft. Lauderdale. 20.8 miles. Runner up goes to a United DC-10 between Baltimore and Washington Dulles - 44.9 miles
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